The Abbott Government

Julia · 9 July 2014

drsmith said:
They were just rude personal attacks that speak more about her character than anyone else's.

Agree absolutely. Some basic good manners would surely be the more appropriate stance of someone with zero useful experience and a huge amount to learn. Plus, as already mentioned, the notion that she is qualified to use a clinical term.
Pfft!

drsmith said:
The senate today has blocked the repeal of second round of income tax cuts associated with the carbon tax.

These are the tax cuts Labor reneged on prior to the last election and then changed their minds again after losing office.

sptrawler said:
It's an interesting situation, when the parliament is deliberately forcing the government to go further into debt, it boils down to economic vandalism.

I can't see how this tactic will end well.

So many people intent on exerting their own personal egos, all determined to make life impossible for the government in its intention to restore a fiscally responsible path.

I'm about at the stage where I'd like a DD election, let Labor/Greens/PUP win, and let them revert to sinking Australia. Won't worry me personally. I don't have grandchildren to inherit the debt.

sptrawler · 9 July 2014

Julia said:
Agree absolutely.
I'm about at the stage where I'd like a DD election, let Labor/Greens/PUP win, and let them revert to sinking Australia. Won't worry me personally. .

I feel the same way,its funny really, everyone is pushing to just spend, spend, spend, which really is a reflection of our society.
So maybe we are out of step, we may be dinosaurs.lol
The one thing for sure, if Labor get back in, get ready for massive tax hikes.

I still believe the silent majority aren't stupid, middle Australia has to wear the cost of bad government because they are the major tax payers.
I am sure they can see that they will be footing the bill.

Time will tell, as doc said Abbott is probably playing a long game.
I know my mate, who works in the council(he is my bellwether), can't believe how the government is being blackmailed by idiots( he calls them worse)lol

Smurf1976 · 9 July 2014

sptrawler said:
It's an interesting situation, when the parliament is deliberately forcing the government to go further into debt, it boils down to economic vandalism.

I can't see how this tactic will end well.

Something I've come across on several occasions relates to management as such.

If you are the manager (owner, boss, supervisor, worker responsible for the job, whatever) of something (anything) and are accountable for the outcome then you need to be able to get on and manage it as appropriate. It just doesn't work if you are responsible on one hand, but on the other hand don't have effective authority to get the job done. Responsibility, at whatever level, and authority at that same level are joined at the hip.

It's the same in any situation from a bus driver to a government. If the bus driver is ordered not to use the brakes then it's not their fault when the inevitable crash occurs. If the government can't implement its' policies then you can't fairly hold them accountable for the outcome either good or bad.

I say that without commenting on any specific policy.

sptrawler · 10 July 2014

Smurf1976 said:
Something I've come across on several occasions relates to management as such.

If you are the manager (owner, boss, supervisor, worker responsible for the job, whatever) of something (anything) and are accountable for the outcome then you need to be able to get on and manage it as appropriate. It just doesn't work if you are responsible on one hand, but on the other hand don't have effective authority to get the job done. Responsibility, at whatever level, and authority at that same level are joined at the hip.

It's the same in any situation from a bus driver to a government. If the bus driver is ordered not to use the brakes then it's not their fault when the inevitable crash occurs. If the government can't implement its' policies then you can't fairly hold them accountable for the outcome either good or bad.

I say that without commenting on any specific policy.

Agree completely, I had this same discussion with Sydboy, I said the government is voted in to implement policies.
They are judged on those policies at the next election, unless some catastrophe happens, like happened with the Whitlam government.

What's happening at the moment is, those that were voted out are banding together to pass legislation that loses money and blocking legislation that saves money.
My guess is the, Royal Commission into unions is probably driving the thrust to call a new election, I wonder if the press union will be probed?

sydboy007 · 10 July 2014

sptrawler said:
Agree completely, I had this same discussion with Sydboy, I said the government is voted in to implement policies.
They are judged on those policies at the next election, unless some catastrophe happens, like happened with the Whitlam government.

What's happening at the moment is, those that were voted out are banding together to pass legislation that loses money and blocking legislation that saves money.
My guess is the, Royal Commission into unions is probably driving the thrust to call a new election, I wonder if the press union will be probed?

While I think most of what the Govt has proposed in the budget wont do much to help get the budget on a more stable footing, I've said I believe Labor should just wave everything through. Give the Government no cover to hide behind when what they do does send us into a recession. The way things are going they're smoothing the rough edges off Abbott and providing plenty of cover to hide behind when things inevitably get bad.

I do wonder though why the calls for a less obstructionist opposition were so faint to non existent prior to September 2013.

Calliope · 10 July 2014

sydboy007 said:
I do wonder though why the calls for a less obstructionist opposition were so faint to non existent prior to September 2013.

That's obvious. The Coalition in Government never had control of the Senate. It is in the Senate that all the obstruction occurs. Labor/Green free passage of irresponsible bills in the Senate for six years if why we are in such a mess now.

drsmith · 10 July 2014

PUP, Ricky Muir, Labor and the Greens have combined in the senate to block the carbon tax repeal.

Media commentary suggests it will have to go back to the reps next week.

Clive Palmer, pictured, with former Liberal Leader John Hewson, is angry because a new amendment to ensure carbon tax savings are passed back to households has not been presented to the Senate. Pic: Alex Ellinghausen

He looks real angry.

http://www.afr.com/p/national/clive_palmer_threat_to_block_carbon_O6TYRyLen4vayrawl6PqVL

IFocus · 10 July 2014

Who would have thought.

Senate in chaos as Palmer blocks carbon tax repeal

The Federal Government's bid to repeal the carbon tax has backfired, with the Senate rejecting the legislation after powerbroker Clive Palmer claimed he had been "double-crossed" by the Coalition.

Found this really funny from Anthony Albanese

AlboMP @AlboMP
How's that pledge that you would refuse to talk or negotiate with any cross bench MPs or Senators working out for you, Tony?

noco · 10 July 2014

drsmith said:
PUP, Ricky Muir, Labor and the Greens have combined in the senate to block the carbon tax repeal.

Media commentary suggests it will have to go back to the reps next week.

He looks real angry.

http://www.afr.com/p/national/clive_palmer_threat_to_block_carbon_O6TYRyLen4vayrawl6PqVL

IMHO, I believe Palmer is angling for a double dissolution because he believes he will gain more seats for PUP.....it also might back fire on him.

If Abbott leaves his run too long, he might find himself replaced with Malcolm Turnbull....Turbull has more charisma but I don't particularly like the idea of him being too far to the left...only time will tell.

Knobby22 · 10 July 2014

Is Abbott & Co working to help Clive? Yet another free kick.
They said they agreed to the amendment and then didn't put it in.

I said it earlier and I will say it again, if the Libs want a second term it won't be with Abbott and Hockey in charge. It's really incompetence in my view.

drsmith · 10 July 2014

noco said:
IMHO, I believe Palmer is angling for a double dissolution because he believes he will gain more seats for PUP.....it also might back fire on him.

If Abbott leaves his run too long, he might find himself replaced with Malcolm Turnbull....Turbull has more charisma but I don't particularly like the idea of him being too far to the left...only time will tell.

The government will have another crack next week.

It appears PUP attempted to put an amendment that the clark said could be unconstitutional and needs to go back to the reps.

In Clive's own words,

1:30pm: In Clive's own words (from the Senate courtyard a bit earlier), this is what he says happened:

"Well, we had an amendment and the amendment was very strong that requiring the savings of electricity or gas [companies] to be passed onto the consumer ... [with penalties for non-compliant companies].

"They [the government] thought it was too harsh initially and said it wasn't a good idea. Then they went to the Clerk and they said it was a tax not a penalty ...The clerks said it might be declared a tax and therefore not constitutional ..."

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/the-pulse-live/politics-live-july-10-2014-20140710-3bnuh.html

Also of interest, Ben Oquist is involved with Clive Palmer and PUP.

Ben Oquist is strategy director at The Australia Institute. He is former chief of staff to Bob Brown and then Christine Milne.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/ben-oquist/5505350

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-clive-palmer-and-al-gore-20140626-3awgy.html

It's becoming increasingly obvious that Clive Palmer and his brood have ties with Labor and Green influence and when push is coming to shove in the senate, they're voting accordingly.

drsmith · 10 July 2014

Knobby22 said:
Is Abbott & Co working to help Clive? Yet another free kick.
They said they agreed to the amendment and then didn't put it in.

The clerks declared that the PUP amendment could be unconstitutional and was withdrawn from senate vote by PUP.

See above.

basilio · 10 July 2014

This government will have to think very carefully about how it is going to work.

I can't see how the Budget will be passed in any shape resembling the way it was presented. It is going to be extremely difficult to kill the carbon tax and it seems certain that the other programs they wanted cut will be saved.

Going to a DD on the current budget promises seems like political suicide.

Well at least Tony Abbott has fulfilled his desire to be PM at any cost ...

drsmith · 10 July 2014

basilio said:
I can't see how the Budget will be passed in any shape resembling the way it was presented. It is going to be extremely difficult to kill the carbon tax and it seems certain that the other programs they wanted cut will be saved.

Look at the image above (and below) where Uncle Clive is supposedly angry.

He's as happy as a pig in poop at giving the Abbott government a bit of short term grief and lapping up the media attention.

If he has any political sense, he'll ultimately instruct his senators to pass the carbon tax repeal. The alternative is that he is hoping that by not passing it he will cripple TA prime ministership and Malcolm Turnbull will take over. If that happens, the Left commentariat will eat Malcolm for breakfast. I hope Clive realises this because Malcolm himself doesn't.

sptrawler · 10 July 2014

basilio said:
Well at least Tony Abbott has fulfilled his desire to be PM at any cost ...

Tut tut, you are showing your nasty streak.lol

It undermines your persona of a caring person.

Knobby22 · 10 July 2014

drsmith said:
The alternative is that he is hoping that by not passing it he will cripple TA prime ministership and Malcolm Turnbull will take over.

I think Julia Bishop could have a chance actually.
She hasn't been dirtied and could be a compromise choice.

basilio · 10 July 2014

Yep SP I am truly a warm, caring and sharing person. It so warms the cockles of my heart to seeing Tony Abbott dealing with the consequences of his actions in polarising politics and taking it to the simplest, stupidest levels. All about Karma I say.

You know what ? I reckon that the Liberal strategists will have to seriously think about negotiating with the Labor Party on the Budget and other bills. I'm struggling to see how they will manage to herd sufficient numbers of the cross benchers into supporting their policies.

And I also suspect that if they keep trying and failing to get bills passed in the Senate Malcolm Turnball might be the circuit breaker for the party and the Parliament. Karma again if it happens.

AAA · 10 July 2014

The Govt will just chip away geting bills through one at a time. They will get most of what they want through before the end of their first term. Once they are about six months out from the next election they can threaten to go to a DD on anything they are being obstructed on. I don't see the cross benchers risking an early end to their pariamentary career and being close to having to go to the polls the govt doesn't have anything to lose by going a few months early.

banco · 10 July 2014

drsmith said:
If he has any political sense, he'll ultimately instruct his senators to pass the carbon tax repeal. The alternative is that he is hoping that by not passing it he will cripple TA prime ministership and Malcolm Turnbull will take over. If that happens, the Left commentariat will eat Malcolm for breakfast. I hope Clive realises this because Malcolm himself doesn't.

...or he'll just cripple TA's Government and stand back and watch the fireworks.

drsmith · 10 July 2014

The ABC has covered what happened,

In the midst of Senate debate on the repeal legislation, the PUP amendment was tabled but then - curiously - withdrawn by PUP itself.

It later emerged that the Clerk of the Senate had advised PUP that the amendment was unconstitutional because the 250 per cent penalty that applied to companies could be seen as a tax, and would therefore have to pass the House of Representatives first.

Mr Palmer has disputed the advice.

"In my mind, that's a penalty, it's a consequence of what you haven't done," he said.

"However, somehow the clerk said it could be a tax and therefore might not be constitutional.

"It's not a tax, right? It's a penalty."

The Government says the "technical" issue should be easily fixed.

It's the clerk's view that counts Clive.

Shill, he obviously wasn't fussed about the outcome as the images show.

Clive late today has again vowed to allow the carbon tax repeal through next week (ABC radio news).

If he genuinely wants the repeal not to proceed, his tactic may be to present amendments sufficiently repugnant to the other cross bench senators such that enough of them vote it down even though his senators in the end support it.

Environment Minister Greg Hunt said the minor party had circulated three versions of its amendments and the Government saw the latest one at about 9.15am.

"We have supported and agreed with all," he said.

But there may be fresh hurdles ahead, with another crossbench senator, NSW Liberal Democrat David Leyonjhelm, expressing strong reservations about the PUP amendments.

"The final version of them are very proscriptive, they have extremely high fines for failure to lodge documents and you know it really is going beyond reasonable," he said.

The Government needs the support of six of the eight crossbenchers to pass any legislation opposed by the Labor and the Greens.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-...sses-ahead-with-carbon-tax-repeal-bid/5588172

The Abbott Government

Julia

In Memoriam

sptrawler

Smurf1976

sptrawler

sydboy007

Calliope

drsmith

Attachments

IFocus

You are arguing with a Galah

noco

Knobby22

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

drsmith

drsmith

basilio

drsmith

Attachments

sptrawler

Knobby22

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

basilio

AAA

banco

drsmith

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