The Abbott Government

explod said:

The growing world wide problem of climate and refugees will not go away by pretending and building barriers.

There is no real government.

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It's no secret the Green movement prefers a one-world government over sovereign nations and are so driven by this ideology that country shoppers drowning at sea are mere accidents in the pursuit of this quest.

drsmith said:

It's no secret the Green movement prefers a one-world government over sovereign nations and are so driven by this ideology that country shoppers drowning at sea are mere accidents in the pursuit of this quest.

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Discredit does not address the issues or answer the question.

The MSM,s interpretation of the Green movement is selective to protect self interest and feed off controlling the sheeple. However growing sheer numbers will need to,be addressed if we are to maintain the life we have known.

And for example, to maintain fortress Australia we me rue the day that we did not take every able soul (boat people too) to build the required defenses.

explod said:

And for example, to maintain fortress Australia we me rue the day that we did not take every able soul (boat people too) to build the required defenses.

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Who will be invading us, explod?

Julia said:

Who will be invading us, explod?

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It would be naive to think that this couldn't happen at some time in the future. We could be an irresistible target for a Muslim country with a population of 250 million to our north, if they ever run out of land or minerals.

sydboy007 said:

126350 issued for 2012-13 up from 125070 the previous year.

Top industries: Accommodation & food (12.9% or over 16000) , Media, telecomms, healthcare, construction.

Don't know about you, but I've never though you needed a degree to serve food.

I work in the telecomms industry and there's not a lot of opportunities at the moment, yet over 12000 457 Visas issues just last year.

So do you agree with the Abott Government changes to:

* allow an unlimited level of 457 visas to be applied for each year
* provide no financial penalty if an employer highers multiple times as many 457 visa workers as they claimed they would
* watered down advertising of positions so that a 1 day "advertisement" on a company facebook page would be deemed acceptable

Call me parochial, call me racist if you like, but I think there should be a legal requirement to higher an appropriately skilled Aussie over a foreign worker. No IFs or BUTs.

Abbott is trying to have his workchoices cake by creating higher supply of labour to suppress wages, doubly worse during an economic decline, while claiming to keep his pre-election promise of not making any changes to work place laws. I can assure you if he had told the electorate of his plans it would have been a big voter changer for many Australians.

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Sydboy, you are still missing the point again with your one track mind that foreign workers are replacing Australian workers...... no such thing is happening.

There are lots of Employment Agencies in Australia who have these jobs on their books as well as the employers advertising....I would like to find out the statistics of how many Australian workers apply for certain jobs in isolated places......I would like to know how many Australian workers are offered such work and then decline once knowing where they have to go.

It does not matter whether the job vacancy is for a doctor, a nurse, a lawyer, a boiler maker welder, a plumber, an electrician or a domestic worker....If the job vacancy is one of those categories is located at Meekatharra, Newman, Tom Price, Turkey creek, Halls Creek, Alice Springs, Tenant Creek, Jabiru, Borroloola, Aramac and many of the isolated mines, would you leave your family and friends who are living in some major cities on the coast to go and work in such isolated places?

I have a second cousin who was the supervisor of house keeping at the Crocodile Hotel in Kakadu NT. and she tells me she was always struggling to get Australian house maids to service rooms.....they finished up bringing in Filipino girls to fill the vacancies......even in the Hotel/Casino in Townsville, management have trouble getting Australian house maids who say they find the work too strenuous and barely last a couple of weeks....now 80% of house maids are Filipino...They are local girls but they are not here on 457 visas.....they work roster shifts Monday to Sunday with no penalty rates on weekends....some even start at 6 am. they are paid the same rate of pay as Australians....so there is no depression of wages as you claim......It is the leftie catch cry again and the scare campaign that Abbott will bring back Work Choices....When will you get off that bike.

So Sydboy, I am quoting these cases in an endeavor to engage you into rethinking your attitude to 457 visas and that foreign workers are not taking over Australian jobs......the jobs are there.....it is just that Australian workers are not desirous of leaving the comfort of their own homes and their families and furthermore I don't blame them.....THE IFS and BUTS has nothing to do with it.

So please get of your high horse and listen to reason for once.

explod said:

Discredit does not address the issues or answer the question.

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Neither does large scale importation of the world's problems to our own detriment and little gain elsewhere let alone the human cost of what the Greens dismiss as accidents.

As a basic evolutionary process, it's competition that drives advancement through adaptation. World government without competition on the same scale would ultimately be an evolutionary dead end. It may come with the discovery of intelligent extra terrestrial life but will more likely come with the expansion of our species to other worlds.

Its time is a long way off yet.

noco said:

So Sydboy, I am quoting these cases in an endeavor to engage you into rethinking your attitude to 457 visas and that foreign workers are not taking over Australian jobs......the jobs are there.....it is just that Australian workers are not desirous of leaving the comfort of their own homes and their families and furthermore I don't blame them.....THE IFS and BUTS has nothing to do with it.
.

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There is a huge situation arising in Australia.
As you say no one wants to leave the cities.
Everyone wants a tax funded pension that provides a comfortable lifestyle, if they haven't saved for their own pension.
Everyone wants unlimited access to welfare, no strings attached.
Everyone wants tax funded job security, even if the business isn't competitive.
Everyone wants tax funded health care.
Everyone wants tax funded bling speed internet.
Everyone wants, tax funded education.
Everyone wants, everyone wants.
However when you ask them to put something in, there is a huge scream and outcry.
I see the government is going to offer sweeteners to try and tempt the unemployed to take regional work, there will be a huge outcry.
NSW is trying to sell off some older inner city public housing, to release a lot of money for public housing, there is a huge outcry.
This constant pandering to population that wants to live in a taxpayer funded holiday camp, is going to come to an end, one way or another.IMO
Australia is going to have to drag itself up off its lazy fat ar$e, or they will end up like Greece or Spain.
Having an afternoon siesta saying "Hey watts the matter, find someone to tax, get off my case".

explod said:

are to maintain the life we have known.

And for example, to maintain fortress Australia we me rue the day that we did not take every able soul (boat people too) to build the required defenses.

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We also may rue the day we let so many in, just because you take a person into your house and feed him, doesn't mean he is obligated to follow your beliefs, or fight for your cause.

sptrawler said:

We also may rue the day we let so many in, just because you take a person into your house and feed him, doesn't mean he is obligated to follow your beliefs, or fight for your cause.

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Since the late 60s for over 30 years i observed first hand the growth of Melbourne. And it was amazing how so many diverse peoples grew together and enriched our way of life. In medicine alone campuses such as Monash leadvthe world in curing deseases and rebuilding bodies. Micro sergery engineers sought after across the globe.

Why, because we have enthusiasm, fresh blood mix of viewpoints. I could go on so much more.

I willvgo to the library computer tomorrow and give a real burst. Very hard doing this on phone.

Everyone should for example be made to work in,some way for keep, and we could do that.

And on another front for example if drugs were legalised the drug trade would die and the druggies would either die or,be identified and cured. Resources could then be redirected.

Julia said:

Who will be invading us, explod?

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Overpopulation. Our navy may hold things for a few more years but if we do not populate our northern lands others out of necessity will.

IMHO

explod said:

Since the late 60s for over 30 years i observed first hand the growth of Melbourne. And it was amazing how so many diverse peoples grew together and enriched our way of life. In medicine alone campuses such as Monash leadvthe world in curing deseases and rebuilding bodies. Micro sergery engineers sought after across the globe.

Why, because we have enthusiasm, fresh blood mix of viewpoints. I could go on so much more.

I willvgo to the library computer tomorrow and give a real burst. Very hard doing this on phone.

Everyone should for example be made to work in,some way for keep, and we could do that.

And on another front for example if drugs were legalised the drug trade would die and the druggies would either die or,be identified and cured. Resources could then be redirected.

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Look at the stats on asylum seekers, becoming job seekers, then compare that with asylum seekers becoming welfare dependent citizens.
Not wanting to be nasty, however, apparently we can't afford to maintain our pension system with people that have paid taxes.
How the hell do you think we can sustain a welfare sytem, when we just keep taking on more dependants.
If they have something to offer our country, I'm sure there are avenues available to them.

However, you can't just say let them in, let them in, when we are obviously in a position that we can't afford the already existing burden.

It's o.k standing in a circle chanting and sing Kumbaya, but it isn't a good look on a work day.

SirRumpole said:

It would be naive to think that this couldn't happen at some time in the future. We could be an irresistible target for a Muslim country with a population of 250 million to our north, if they ever run out of land or minerals.

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And you imagine we would just sit back and let it happen??? Why do you think Australia has - often against the will of the electorate - supported the USA? The Indonesians can't even manage their own borders, let alone invade Australia. The USA would deal with any such unlikely threat rapidly.

sptrawler said:

We also may rue the day we let so many in, just because you take a person into your house and feed him, doesn't mean he is obligated to follow your beliefs, or fight for your cause.

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+1. Exactly right.

noco said:

There are lots of Employment Agencies in Australia who have these jobs on their books as well as the employers advertising....I would like to find out the statistics of how many Australian workers apply for certain jobs in isolated places......I would like to know how many Australian workers are offered such work and then decline once knowing where they have to go.

I have a second cousin who was the supervisor of house keeping at the Crocodile Hotel in Kakadu NT. and she tells me she was always struggling to get Australian house maids to service rooms.....they finished up bringing in Filipino girls to fill the vacancies......even in the Hotel/Casino in Townsville, management have trouble getting Australian house maids who say they find the work too strenuous and barely last a couple of weeks....now 80% of house maids are Filipino...They are local girls but they are not here on 457 visas.....they work roster shifts Monday to Sunday with no penalty rates on weekends....some even start at 6 am. they are paid the same rate of pay as Australians....so there is no depression of wages as you claim......It is the leftie catch cry again and the scare campaign that Abbott will bring back Work Choices....When will you get off that bike.

So Sydboy, I am quoting these cases in an endeavor to engage you into rethinking your attitude to 457 visas and that foreign workers are not taking over Australian jobs......the jobs are there.....it is just that Australian workers are not desirous of leaving the comfort of their own homes and their families and furthermore I don't blame them.....THE IFS and BUTS has nothing to do with it.

So please get of your high horse and listen to reason for once.

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If you increase supply of workers, what happens to wages? What are the pay rates the Hotel / Casino in Townsville offering? High enough for someone to have a liveable income?? Do they employ the people directly, or hide behind a labour hire company and pay on a per room basis?

As for you second cousin paying the Filipino maids the same rate as Australians, if they are not being paid penalty rates on weekends then I think Fair Work Australia needs to investigate. 6AM starts are nothing unusual. In Sydney the train is half full of people getting in to work around that time.

If house keeping staff are treated in a similar way to how one of my house mates, I can understand why it's hard to find people willing to stick with it. Using labour hire firms to get around paying a wage so the hotel can pay you based on each room cleaned, with no regard to when say a customer has decided to defalcate somewhere other than the toilet, or has hosted a large party in the room and there's extra work involved in cleaning and deodorising. To say I was shocked at what some people get up to in high end hotel rooms is an understatement.

So rather than pointing the finger at the lazy Aussie, maybe you need to dig a bit deeper and see if there's any other reason behind the difficulty to hire staff by certain companies. I know of a company in Sydney that has a number of venues used for Weddings / Functions and the way they treated their staff left them in a very difficult situation due to their bad reputation, especially for their dodgy practices on how they paid staff on a public holiday. They have such high staff turnover I'm surprised they still have a business. People I knew would only accept work from them as a last resort.

I have no problem with using 457 visas to fill jobs that a local person can't, but why water down the rules to allow companies to far more easily use them. Surely it's not too onerous to show you've advertised the position for a couple of weeks, and that the company will only higher the number of people it says it will. Surely it's reasonable to show you've interviewed locals for the position and can show why none of them were suitable for the role. Some companies have hired 8 times as many many works on 457 visas as they applied for. Abbott says they shouldn't suffer any financial penalty for this. I think they should as it's a breach of faith with the Australian public to only use a 457 visa worker as a last resort.

Julia said:

The USA would deal with any such unlikely threat rapidly.


.

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The USA won't even sign a Defence alliance with us.

ANZUS is merely a treaty to consult, it gives the USA no obligations to do anything about our defence. The USA has pacts to defend Taiwan, the Phillippines and Japan but not us. Anyone who want to attack us would wait until the USA is weakest and least able to come to our aid. eg if they were fighting in the Middle East or against China over Taiwan.

As for us , trying to defend against 250 million people, pull the other one.

SirRumpole said:

The USA won't even sign a Defence alliance with us.

ANZUS is merely a treaty to consult, it gives the USA no obligations to do anything about our defence. The USA has pacts to defend Taiwan, the Phillippines and Japan but not us. Anyone who want to attack us would wait until the USA is weakest and least able to come to our aid. eg if they were fighting in the Middle East or against China over Taiwan.

As for us , trying to defend against 250 million people, pull the other one.

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History has never shown, cowtowing and grovelling, as a very successful defence policy either. Rudd and Gillards behaviour toward Indonesia was infantile, stopping the cattle trade, then Rudd running over to get Bang Bangs support against Abbott, bloody playground behaviour.
As for our defence the U.S, U.K and China have enough skin in the game, to come over and protect their assetts.

Negative gearing on investment property. If you can't see how this feeds property speculation in the cities you're referred to above and the on-flow economic activity that then feeds on itself and the associated tax receipts and then commercial profit imperatives of the major corporations/technocracies of the 'New Industrial State', well?. And so the kapoof'el bird goes around and around, but slower and slower because of the traffic.
And we're blessed with a government that's digging in it's navel.
The infrastructure PM? anybody seen any?
Name a visionary on the government benches, I think there's one. and now name the ideologically hidebound.
To paraphrase Clinton' 'It's the policies stupid...' If you want regional development you build infrastructure that supports it and policies that encourage it , at a Notational level.
And we know how many policies this government went to the election with. One, 'don't step on toes of flat screen obsessed western suburb sports clowns, sorry fans.'
So keep kicking those own goals Tony, that's what we elected you for.

orr said:

The infrastructure PM? anybody seen any?

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https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/BuildingRoads/Projects/planning/Pages/NorthlinkWA.aspx

orr said:

Negative gearing on investment property. If you can't see how this feeds property speculation in the cities you're referred to above and the on-flow economic activity that then feeds on itself and the associated tax receipts and then commercial profit imperatives of the major corporations/technocracies of the 'New Industrial State', well?. And so the kapoof'el bird goes around and around, but slower and slower because of the traffic.
And we're blessed with a government that's digging in it's navel.
The infrastructure PM? anybody seen any?
Name a visionary on the government benches, I think there's one. and now name the ideologically hidebound.
To paraphrase Clinton' 'It's the policies stupid...' If you want regional development you build infrastructure that supports it and policies that encourage it , at a Notational level.
And we know how many policies this government went to the election with. One, 'don't step on toes of flat screen obsessed western suburb sports clowns, sorry fans.'
So keep kicking those own goals Tony, that's what we elected you for.

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Nice rant.
Maybe we should reflect on the $300billion debt, racked up over the last six years from the last government, and ponder the productive infrastucture that has delivered.
Then we can sit down and analyse how much infrastructure you would expect to be delivered in six months.lol
As for a government that's digging in its navel. I think that is better than a prime Minister having to front up to an inquiry into poor policy implementation, that may have lead to deaths.
Anyway from a t.v perspective, navel gazing is far better than, ear cleaning and eating.

Occasionally we see polls on this forum:

Is the Abbott Government;

a/ Fair dinkum.
b/ For the fair go'.
c/ Worried about 'fairy's'...(who aren't radio shock jocks).
d/ Fairy floss.


Oh and by the way, 'It's about the policies, 'stupid' '.

SirRumpole said:

The USA won't even sign a Defence alliance with us.

ANZUS is merely a treaty to consult, it gives the USA no obligations to do anything about our defence.

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Yes it does.

DESIRING to declare publicly and formally their sense of unity, so that no potential aggressor could be under the illusion that any of them stand alone in the Pacific Area, and

DESIRING further to coordinate their efforts for collective defense for the preservation of peace and security pending the development of a more comprehensive system of regional security in the Pacific Area,

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Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific Area on any of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional processes.

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I seriously doubt treaty or no treaty the US would allow Australia to be invaded. The governments and military are so intertwined through various treaties and programs (Echelon, Five Eyes etc)