Thank God I'm Australian

wayneL said:

What is Aussie Spirit?

What makes it different to English Spirit, or Dutch Spirit, or Turkish Spirit or German Spirit, or, or, or, etc etc?

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its unique to the culture. its more egalitarian than the english for starters. probably less nationalistic than the germans. dunno about the dutch, and the turks are currently in the grip of a hearts and minds battle between the islamists and secularists so we'll see how that pans out before we assess their spirit.

wayneL said:

What is Aussie Spirit?

What makes it different to English Spirit, or Dutch Spirit, or Turkish Spirit or German Spirit, or, or, or, etc etc?

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TO me it is a few things that are disappearing rapidly.

Mateship
A fair go for all.
Pull your weight.
Respect for others and their point of view.
Have a go regardless of the perceived obstacles.
Reject snobbery.
Do business on the shake of the hand.
No worries mate.

nioka said:

Pull your weight.

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wish we could legislate for this

disarray said:

its unique to the culture. its more egalitarian than the english for starters. probably less nationalistic than the germans. dunno about the dutch, and the turks are currently in the grip of a hearts and minds battle between the islamists and secularists so we'll see how that pans out before we assess their spirit.

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But what is it? And what is the culture?

Apart from the accent, I don't actually notice much difference between the English and Aussies, "spirit wise". In many ways, I find the English more egalitarian, but not others.

It's much easier to make friends here, and modern Germany is not as nationalistic as Oz.

disarray said:

wish we could legislate for this

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Now that would be unaustralian! As Australians we object to those that don't so you are qualifying as one if you object to those that don't pull their weight.

nioka said:

TO me it is a few things that are disappearing rapidly.

Mateship
A fair go for all.
Pull your weight.
Respect for others and their point of view.
Have a go regardless of the perceived obstacles.
Reject snobbery.
Do business on the shake of the hand.
No worries mate.

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All those ideals exist here in England. Just different terminology.

Aussie spirit is just human spirit. It is in common with all people, if allowed to be.

wayneL said:

All those ideals exist here in England. Just different terminology.

Aussie spirit is just human spirit. It is in common with all people, if allowed to be.

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In that case I must have been places where the inhabitants aren't human. They should exist in England, it is where most of it came from in the first place.

wayneL said:

But what is it? And what is the culture?

Apart from the accent, I don't actually notice much difference between the English and Aussies, "spirit wise". In many ways, I find the English more egalitarian, but not others.

It's much easier to make friends here, and modern Germany is not as nationalistic as Oz.

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spirit and identity are more emotional than logical and so are harder to define. identity and cultural norms are "felt" because they aren't taught but absorbed as your grow. the wider the group you find yourself in then the farther you cast your identity net.

eg. an aussie in africa would more closely identify with a german because of similarities in appearance, education, culture, religion, politics etc. than with the locals. but in germany the aussie wouldn't identify as strongly with the germans, but would if he came across another aussie.

this is all just social construct stuff and by looking at a society and its history then you can see how it evolved and identify the cultural markers that evolved from each societies unique set of circumstances. its not "the aussie spirit is this clearly definable thing" but its the worldview we hold because of the upbringing we received.

nioka said:

Now that would be unaustralian!

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well thats part of the discussion isn't it? plenty of people live here don't identify as australian. do they get a free ride?

nioka said:

TO me it is a few things that are disappearing rapidly..

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Really??

Mateship

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Come on! that is not a unique "Aussie" trait

A fair go for all.

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Thats more of a myth than fact. What can you do in Oz that you carn't do in any western country??

Pull your weight.

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Does that include the stereotypical "Aussie bludger"

Respect for others and their point of view.

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Australian "society" is more than likely to have either an agree/disagree on most subjects without much discussion from anyone outside the pollies or journos. We are pathetic as far as interest groups and civil discussions goes. Pathetic!!

Have a go regardless of the perceived obstacles.

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I thought that was the American dream!

As for the rest. See Wayne's comment.

disarray said:

well thats part of the discussion isn't it? plenty of people live here don't identify as australian. do they get a free ride?

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The aussies I know wouldn't want legislation they would just want to kick their ar butts.

No one would suggest that aussies have a monopoly on any or all of the traits. Anyway I'm going to do the aussie thing and go fishing. See ya later.

wayneL said:

What is Aussie Spirit?

What makes it different to English Spirit, or Dutch Spirit, or Turkish Spirit or German Spirit, or, or, or, etc etc?

They all are battlers that made their countries great through hard work, world wars as servicemen and women and through sporting achievements etc as well.

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Totally agree. Why do so many Aussies think it's unique to them? Cos they read the crappy newspapers available in this oh so great country. And possibly have never lived anywhere else (maybe apart from the UK) to qualify their uninformed statements.

And what's this thread doing on this forum anyway?

And I have not experienced Germans to be more nationalistic at all. They don't fly flags, they don't sing their anthems in school, they have no Germany Day, so how are they nationalistic? Also, the Germans' horrible and inexcusable past is much longer ago than Australia's White policy.

Unfortunately, whilst most Australians are patriotic (ie love to their own country, which is fine), an increasing number is also nationalistic (disrespect for other countries and cultures, a feeling of white supremacy etc, and bumper stickers such as 'Australia, if you don't love it, leave it' - ever thought that maybe one can be critical and possibly should be of certain things and still have a right to live here? Germany can be proud of the 'subversive elements' during Nazi German, people who actually spoke up and were criticial. Cos if something is wrong, people should be allowed to speak up).

I am German. I am not proud of it, I am not ashamed of it, I am happy to be German, nothing more, nothing less. How can one be proud of something that's a mere coincidence, ie being born to German parents in Germany? Should one not limit one's pride to things one has achieved?

I love it here in Australia. I also would love it in other places. I know how lucky I am that I had the fortune to be born and bread in a country with a sound democracy and Human Rights. Some people aren't as lucky, and I am happy to share with anyone who genuinely wants to live their life here in Oz, cos they might not be alive any more where they come from.

Not long ago "aussies" wouldnt drink plonk or eat asian food ... now its a highlight of the australian experience.

What most people would call an "aussie" are a sad minority relic ... much like people wearing MC Hammer pants with patterns shaved into their haircuts.

The full on aussie had less history than the modern multicultural australian ... the ones that cling to it for lack of anything else worthwhile in their lives are the bitter living dead overcompensating in a ute with truck mudflaps and big CB antennas. With a good side order of racism and xenophobia that gives normal australians a bad name.

Australia is now a rich and increasingly sophisticated and international place ... adapt or perish.

And yes I was born on the northern beaches and have lived here my whole life.

roland said:

I understand that the birth rate amongst our muslim community is nearly triple that of the multi-generational Australians.

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Good luck to them ... they must be doing something right and to the winner go the spoils.

Im christian but youve gotta at least say they have their **** together culturally or religiously when it comes to getting married and having families.

Have more kids or be happy for them ... they are a part of the modern aussie culture.

roland said:

I understand that the birth rate amongst our muslim community is nearly triple that of the multi-generational Australians.

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its happening worldwide not just in Australia.

You all need to get a southern cross tattoo, some frangipani stickers on your car, and wave that Aussie Flag. Anything else is UnAusutralian damnit.

roland said:

Every night I watch the news from around the world, and every day I cannot but feel so privaledged that I am born and bred an Aussie.

Sure, we have some problems .... trying to get along with our Aboriginal countrymen, some racial conflicts with our newest Australians, some security concerns with minority extremists, environmental issues with droughts, then floods....., but all in all we are so lucky.

No need to list the worries of the world that are all too well present, with all the deaths, conflicts, wars, racial and religious struggles that are continually beamed to us "via satellite" on our TV screens, but I wonder how we will remain safe and isolated from the conflicts that are slowly sucking in the broader parts of the globe.

The human streetscape, even in my little suburb in the inner west of Sydney is changing. I am seeing a lot more tall very black Afican (Sudanese?) people, women in full muslim wear, many middle eastern looking males and slowly but surely I am feeling the typical Aussie is disappearing.

I understand that the birth rate amongst our muslim community is nearly triple that of the multi-generational Australians.

How long before we lose our typical True Blue Aussie identity?

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Have you been anywhere else besides Australia? I wouldn't be too reliant on the media to paint you an accurate picture of other countries.

Ask people overseas who have never been to Australia and they think there are no banks in Australia, kangaroos are jumping up and down the road all day and if you go swimming at the beach you will get eaten by a shark.


The True Blue Aussie Identity - what a load of bollocks. Why are some people so obsessed with maintaining this stereotype.

Can i have a description of who or what this is??

jersey10 said:

Have you been anywhere else besides Australia? I wouldn't be too reliant on the media to paint you an accurate picture of other countries.

Ask people overseas who have never been to Australia and they think there are no banks in Australia, kangaroos are jumping up and down the road all day and if you go swimming at the beach you will get eaten by a shark.


The True Blue Aussie Identity - what a load of bollocks. Why are some people so obsessed with maintaining this stereotype.

Can i have a description of who or what this is??

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Having seen that doco about the corbys I know what the modern "tru blue ocker" is all about. Trouble is most people call them yobbos and bogans nowadays.

They are most common in areas like macquaries fields and have the same effect of property prices as mobile phone towers and high power lines.

The american equivalent is that cletus guy off the simpsons, but he has a couple of hundred extra years of history, tradition and culture behind him.

Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Macquarie Fields.
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about.
Macquarie Fields forever.

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.
It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out.
It doesn't matter much to me.

Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Macquarie Fields.
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about.
Macquarie Fields forever.

No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low.
That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right.
That is I think it's not too bad.

Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Macquarie Fields.
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about.
Macquarie Fields forever.

Always no sometimes think it's me, but you know I know when it's a dream.
I think I know I mean "Yes," but it's all wrong.
That is I think I disagree.

Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to Macquarie Fields.
Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about.
Macquarie Fields forever.
Macquarie Fields forever.
Macquarie Fields forever.

jersey10 said:

The True Blue Aussie Identity - what a load of bollocks. Why are some people so obsessed with maintaining this stereotype.

Can i have a description of who or what this is??

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simply put its kind of like this -

equality of gender
freedom of religion
freedom of sexual orientation
freedom to elect your leaders
freedom to openly state your opinion
freedom of choice (within reasonable bounds)
freedom to live in peace, forge your own destiny, raise your kids etc. etc.

these are the basic tenets of western cultural belief and identity. you can go to any western country and be guaranteed these freedoms regardless of your skin colour, beliefs or sex. lots of the world isn't like this (by lots i mean most), these basic freedoms we assume as our right are in fact only a recent development in our history, and were paid for with a LOT of blood, sweat and sacrifice by earlier generations.

so on this base we have national quirks of identity. so an "aussie" would firmly hold to all of the above ideals, as well as have some unique characteristics determined by their circumstances. these other characteristics are things like mateship (necessary in a hostile, settler environment), a healthy disrespect of authority (maybe convict origins), a streak of larrikanism etc. this is the "aussie character" people refer to.

an englishman would also hold all of the above ideals, as well as their own national quirks, like amazing patience, excessive politeness or other social behaviours people identify as "english". so the fundamental principles are the same and aussies and english can easily identify with each other, even when we flog them in the cricket.

now take a lebanese muslim. under islam and traditional lebanese culture men and women aren't equal. when i was in lebanon i witnessed first hand how the women prepared the food, served the men, then took everything away to eat the leftovers in the kitchen and clean up. freedom of religion is irrelevant because islamic teaching explicitly states that everyone has to convert, submit, or die. homosexuality is also punishable by death under islam and as we've recently seen, political power in that part of the world often stems from the barrel of a gun. a person who comes from this environment doesn't have the same cultural foundation that we do, and this has to be acknowledged and dealt with.

so anyway the convict / settler / digger / larrikan image was all well and good until 1950 and this forms the basis of anglo australian culture and identity. this is probably still relevant in large parts of australia which are still predominantly white, but not in the cities which are now filled with large numbers of people from all different racial and cultural backgrounds. so the image of the aussie has to adapt and move forward, hence the discussion.

now what new identity to come remains to be seen however the core beliefs outlined at the beginning of this post are not negotiable. when other cultures maintain practices that violate these beliefs (such as honour killings, female genital mutilation, discrimination with muslim-only days) then we must loudly and firmly claim that this sort of **** is not acceptable and the above principles must be adhered to or you can go elsewhere. it is a fair and reasonable expectation to make of new arrivals that they adhere to these beliefs, and if not, don't come.