Superannuation, the ultimate government cash cow?

[divs4ever]

I am a fan of super, but I think it's lost its way over the years.

i liked the concept of compulsory super when Paul Keating introduced it

however politicians , bureaucrats and activists find it compelling to fiddle about , and i saw the trend in 2010 took an opportune moment to bail out , and invest myself as a standalone portfolio ( of mixed assets )

i saw this coming years back

'never get between a politician and a pot of money ' my state member said in 1973 and dammit he was correct

BTW i have shares in a couple of accounting firms , so it isn't all bad ( for me )

 

[Warr87]

Problem with the above is that for those who are now in the retirement phase, either transitioning or completely, there needs to be a mechanism to allow members to easily take money out, either as a pension, or in adhoc withdrawls.
The super industry is raking in too much money to ever allow that to happen.
mick

Yea I agree. And I also agree the industry is taking in too much for people to mess with it. Like big property developers, they hold too much money and therefore power to let things slip away.

i liked the concept of compulsory super when Paul Keating introduced it

however politicians , bureaucrats and activists find it compelling to fiddle about , and i saw the trend in 2010 took an opportune moment to bail out , and invest myself as a standalone portfolio ( of mixed assets )

i saw this coming years back

'never get between a politician and a pot of money ' my state member said in 1973 and dammit he was correct

BTW i have shares in a couple of accounting firms , so it isn't all bad ( for me )

Exactly. As it's been fiddled with, it's mutated into something else entirely. I also see it far less about politicians getting at money, but more an industry that they want to keep going and keep fat. I guess that is still about politicians and money, but more indirect. Though the changes they make often are most beneficial to themselves. Perhaps I'm too idealistic, but I'd want super to be there to help out the poorest people not to be used as another tax haven for rich people to accumulate more money.

 

[Belli]

Superannuation. There are Government cash-cows and there are non-Government cash-cows.

Betashares to enter Australian superannuation industry

Over the past 12+ years, Betashares’ leading range of ETFs have helped Australian investors progress their financial goals by democratising investing, expanding choice and lowering costs. Today, Betashares Group announced it has reached an agreement to acquire Bendigo and Adelaide Bank’s...

www.betashares.com.au

It will be interesting to see how this travels in comparison with Vanguard's superannuation offer.

I sometimes wonder if choice is a good thing where there a plethora of products coming to the market. It can have the impact of creating confusion to such an extent some punter will need to seek financial advice and away we go.......

 

[divs4ever]

Superannuation. There are Government cash-cows and there are non-Government cash-cows.

Betashares to enter Australian superannuation industry

Over the past 12+ years, Betashares’ leading range of ETFs have helped Australian investors progress their financial goals by democratising investing, expanding choice and lowering costs. Today, Betashares Group announced it has reached an agreement to acquire Bendigo and Adelaide Bank’s...

www.betashares.com.au

It will be interesting to see how this travels in comparison with Vanguard's superannuation offer.

I sometimes wonder if choice is a good thing where there a plethora of products coming to the market. It can have the impact of creating confusion to such an extent some punter will need to seek financial advice and away we go.......

WOWEE another bullet dodged

i offloaded BEN over other sector concerns ( and needing the cash to fund another project )

and was in a quandary if i pulled the wrong rein , that super business being a future growth vector ( to my eyes )

i suspect Betashares will charge higher fees .. but will they earn them by working harder for returns ?

maybe Betashares can look for staff at FIRB ( who seem to wave through almost all foreign investment/looting )

i would argue almost everyone with a current super plan needs a financial adviser at least on a casual consulting basis

cheers

( i hold both Vanguard and Betashares ETFs )

 

[Dona Ferentes]

I sometimes wonder if choice is a good thing where there a plethora of products coming to the market. It can have the impact of creating confusion to such an extent some punter will need to seek financial advice and away we go.......

ignoring the clamant one, I totally agree @Belli . Sometimes we don't need a better mousetrap, when there are rats at work

 

[Belli]

ignoring the clamant one, I totally agree @Belli . Sometimes we don't need a better mousetrap, when there are rats at work

It's a fine line I think. I do have some nagging doubts about product providers getting into the superannuation realm but then I am old school especially when it comes to conflict of interests be they real or not.

 

[Belli]

Despite no longer having an SMSF and despite unsubscribing (at least I thought I did but then maybe I did and the ATO will one day get around to recognising it) I received the ATO SMSF Newsletter today. Had a brief look and this aspect in intriguing to me.



That 28% is surprisingly low to my mind but it may not include ETFs which are trusts and not listed shares.

Go to this link, open the Excel file and the Tab "Asset Allocation" for more details

https://data.gov.au/data/dataset/2fd970ec-984e-4593-bbad-2e69a5fa7a89/resource/a7d1701d-787e-44d6-b87d-33de10aa318a/download/smsf-quarterly-statistical-report-september-2023-v1.0.xlsx

 

[Belli]

As is normally the case there is always a lag in the data and it takes time to analysis it to get understandable results. This is the latest info from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare regarding income sources of older Australians.

Obviously, the data has moved since this analysis but it does provide some insight especially in regard to the increase in the 65+ receiving a superannuation pension, with a reduction in government pensions, as more of the age group retire and some returning or staying in teh workforce.

Older Australians, Income and finances

Older people make up a considerable proportion of Australia@s population @ at 30 June 2020, over 1 in 6 people were aged 65 and over. The report details the demographic profile of older Australians...

www.aihw.gov.au

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting proposition:

Chalmers pushes super funds to pump hundreds of billions into energy, defence

The Albanese government is assembling the country’s “most influential investors and philanthropists” to help bankroll some of its most high-profile initiatives.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Superannuation funds representing $2.5 trillion will be pushed to fill a widening deficit in defence, energy and social services spending as Treasurer Jim Chalmers meets executives on Monday seeking hundreds of billions of dollars of private investment in crucial sectors of the economy.

The Albanese government is assembling what is believed to be the highest net worth group of investors to meet in Australia because taxpayers cannot afford to bankroll some of its most high-profile initiatives.

“This week, we’re bringing the most influential investors and philanthropists in the country around the table to get capital flowing to where it’s needed most in our economy,” Chalmers said.

“Our investor roundtables are all about getting capital flowing towards opportunities that are in the national interest, delivering strong returns for investors and strong returns for our people.”

Building a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines is expected to cost nearly $400 billion over 30 years. While the commitment to defence spending cracked $50 billion for the first time in the federal budget this year, the nuclear submarines are unfunded.

Defence Industry Minister Pat Conroy said the roundtable would discuss the potential for “everyday Australians to invest in the defence of their nation”.
Meanwhile, Commonwealth Bank senior economist Kristina Clifton said switching to renewable electricity generation and electrifying the transport sector could cost up to $100 billion a year until 2050.
Last week a group of major superannuation funds called for new policies such as tax breaks and faster project approval times to help them invest.

The Albanese government has a huge task to deliver on its goal to raise the share of renewables to 82 per cent of the electricity grid by 2030. Some 10,000 kilometres of transmission lines will be needed to link new wind and solar farms to population centres, while the government announced last month a scheme to underwrite private investment in 32 gigawatts of clean energy generation – nearly half the total capacity of the east coast grid.

“Investment from the private sector is crucial to our economy’s transformation to net zero [emissions],” Bowen said. “Government can’t do it alone, this must be a whole of economy effort.”

Australia’s major super funds will be represented at the meetings in Canberra this week, including Colonial First State, CBUS, AustralianSuper, HESTA and Hostplus, joined by chief executives of the big four banks, industry and social services leaders and philanthropists.

 

[qldfrog]

Interesting proposition:

Chalmers pushes super funds to pump hundreds of billions into energy, defence

The Albanese government is assembling the country’s “most influential investors and philanthropists” to help bankroll some of its most high-profile initiatives.

www.smh.com.au

From the article:
Superannuation funds representing $2.5 trillion will be pushed to fill a widening deficit in defence, energy and social services spending as Treasurer Jim Chalmers meets executives on Monday seeking hundreds of billions of dollars of private investment in crucial sectors of the economy.

The Albanese government is assembling what is believed to be the highest net worth group of investors to meet in Australia because taxpayers cannot afford to bankroll some of its most high-profile initiatives.

“This week, we’re bringing the most influential investors and philanthropists in the country around the table to get capital flowing to where it’s needed most in our economy,” Chalmers said.

“Our investor roundtables are all about getting capital flowing towards opportunities that are in the national interest, delivering strong returns for investors and strong returns for our people.”

Building a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines is expected to cost nearly $400 billion over 30 years. While the commitment to defence spending cracked $50 billion for the first time in the federal budget this year, the nuclear submarines are unfunded.

Defence Industry Minister Pat Conroy said the roundtable would discuss the potential for “everyday Australians to invest in the defence of their nation”.
Meanwhile, Commonwealth Bank senior economist Kristina Clifton said switching to renewable electricity generation and electrifying the transport sector could cost up to $100 billion a year until 2050.
Last week a group of major superannuation funds called for new policies such as tax breaks and faster project approval times to help them invest.

The Albanese government has a huge task to deliver on its goal to raise the share of renewables to 82 per cent of the electricity grid by 2030. Some 10,000 kilometres of transmission lines will be needed to link new wind and solar farms to population centres, while the government announced last month a scheme to underwrite private investment in 32 gigawatts of clean energy generation – nearly half the total capacity of the east coast grid.

“Investment from the private sector is crucial to our economy’s transformation to net zero [emissions],” Bowen said. “Government can’t do it alone, this must be a whole of economy effort.”

Australia’s major super funds will be represented at the meetings in Canberra this week, including Colonial First State, CBUS, AustralianSuper, HESTA and Hostplus, joined by chief executives of the big four banks, industry and social services leaders and philanthropists.

As discussed often enough, your super is their money, soon required to be invested in their "future proofing" Australia ..
I watch utopia long enough to know what their parlance will be...
things like nuclear subs, EV charging stations, solar and wind plant which are net fossil fuel consumers..just in case they pretend the aim is to reduce co2 emissions..a new AFL field in Rockhampton if local MP is in trouble and local batteries in your suburbs.
in the past, that money would have been used for: lpg taxi and government fleet car , building new factories for Holden, creation of a research fund for the coming ice age: (1980) and just before elections: subsidies for childcare and increase of aged pension..add any white elephant you can think of...
it is absolutely abysmal, not interesting.
every time you involve a government, you create waste , shxt and long term misery but it seems it is always forgotten

 

[sptrawler]

As discussed often enough, your super is their money, soon required to be invested in their "future proofing" Australia ..
I watch utopia long enough to know what their parlance will be...
things like nuclear subs, EV charging stations, solar and wind plant which are net fossil fuel consumers..just in case they pretend the aim is to reduce co2 emissions..a new AFL field in Rockhampton if local MP is in trouble and local batteries in your suburbs.

Yes the idea that the money is there to give the best return for members, is heading out the window, but it was a nice thought while it lasted.

I thought this comment in the article was priceless, ' taxpayers cannot afford to bankroll some of its most high-profile initiatives.'
The irony isn't super the taxpayers money? OMG of course not what am I thinking.

 

[divs4ever]

but it was a nice thought while it lasted.

i was lucky enough ( or unlucky enough ) to have an account with an Employer Super Fund which declared ( in the fine print ) some interesting anomalies , mingling in management agendas , the super fund at one stage holding a substantial holding in the company shares ( way more than 6% of the share portfolio ) the pre-selection of candidates for the 'employee interests ' for the super fund trustees ( all middle or senior management )

but nah .. it was a story that turned out to be a fairy-tale ( BTW APRA noticed that share-holding two years after it was reduced to 6% .... )

 

[sptrawler]

The article that just keeps giving, it really should be in the satire thread IMO.

Chalmers pushes super funds to pump hundreds of billions into energy, defence

The Albanese government is assembling the country’s “most influential investors and philanthropists” to help bankroll some of its most high-profile initiatives.

www.smh.com.au

So from the article:
Superannuation funds representing $2.5 trillion will be pushed to fill a widening deficit in defence, energy and social services spending as Treasurer Jim Chalmers meets executives on Monday seeking hundreds of billions of dollars of private investment in crucial sectors of the economy.

“Our investor roundtables are all about getting capital flowing towards opportunities that are in the national interest, delivering strong returns for investors and strong returns for our people.”

Building a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines is expected to cost nearly $400 billion over 30 years. While the commitment to defence spending cracked $50 billion for the first time in the federal budget this year, the nuclear submarines are unfunded.
The Albanese government has a huge task to deliver on its goal to raise the share of renewables to 82 per cent of the electricity grid by 2030. Some 10,000 kilometres of transmission lines will be needed to link new wind and solar farms to population centres, while the government announced last month a scheme to underwrite private investment in 32 gigawatts of clean energy generation – nearly half the total capacity of the east coast grid..

So the taxpayer gets their super invested in military and renewable energy projects, which the Government underwrites and guaranties a return on the investment, which the Government pays with the taxpayers money which then goes back into their super.
That's a circular economy at work, magic Luigi.

 

[Knobby22]

The article that just keeps giving, it really should be in the satire thread IMO.

Chalmers pushes super funds to pump hundreds of billions into energy, defence

The Albanese government is assembling the country’s “most influential investors and philanthropists” to help bankroll some of its most high-profile initiatives.

www.smh.com.au

So from the article:
Superannuation funds representing $2.5 trillion will be pushed to fill a widening deficit in defence, energy and social services spending as Treasurer Jim Chalmers meets executives on Monday seeking hundreds of billions of dollars of private investment in crucial sectors of the economy.

“Our investor roundtables are all about getting capital flowing towards opportunities that are in the national interest, delivering strong returns for investors and strong returns for our people.”

Building a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines is expected to cost nearly $400 billion over 30 years. While the commitment to defence spending cracked $50 billion for the first time in the federal budget this year, the nuclear submarines are unfunded.
The Albanese government has a huge task to deliver on its goal to raise the share of renewables to 82 per cent of the electricity grid by 2030. Some 10,000 kilometres of transmission lines will be needed to link new wind and solar farms to population centres, while the government announced last month a scheme to underwrite private investment in 32 gigawatts of clean energy generation – nearly half the total capacity of the east coast grid..

So the taxpayer gets their super invested in military and renewable energy projects, which the Government underwrites and guaranties a return on the investment, which the Government pays with the taxpayers money which then goes back into their super.
That's a circular economy at work, magic Luigi.

If our Super doesn't take a cut of the deal they would be mugs.
High net worth individuals are going to get their share.
And if these two groups don't stump it - we will be looking at Canadian and Singapore Super Funds again.

from your article:
The Albanese government is assembling what is believed to be the highest net worth group of investors to meet in Australia because taxpayers cannot afford to bankroll some of its most high-profile initiatives.

 

[Value Collector]

The article that just keeps giving, it really should be in the satire thread IMO.

Chalmers pushes super funds to pump hundreds of billions into energy, defence

The Albanese government is assembling the country’s “most influential investors and philanthropists” to help bankroll some of its most high-profile initiatives.

www.smh.com.au

So from the article:
Superannuation funds representing $2.5 trillion will be pushed to fill a widening deficit in defence, energy and social services spending as Treasurer Jim Chalmers meets executives on Monday seeking hundreds of billions of dollars of private investment in crucial sectors of the economy.

“Our investor roundtables are all about getting capital flowing towards opportunities that are in the national interest, delivering strong returns for investors and strong returns for our people.”

Building a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines is expected to cost nearly $400 billion over 30 years. While the commitment to defence spending cracked $50 billion for the first time in the federal budget this year, the nuclear submarines are unfunded.
The Albanese government has a huge task to deliver on its goal to raise the share of renewables to 82 per cent of the electricity grid by 2030. Some 10,000 kilometres of transmission lines will be needed to link new wind and solar farms to population centres, while the government announced last month a scheme to underwrite private investment in 32 gigawatts of clean energy generation – nearly half the total capacity of the east coast grid..

So the taxpayer gets their super invested in military and renewable energy projects, which the Government underwrites and guaranties a return on the investment, which the Government pays with the taxpayers money which then goes back into their super.
That's a circular economy at work, magic Luigi.

That way they get to avoid “Debt”, and instead have “Leases” which are still technically a more expensive version of debt.

 

[sptrawler]

If our Super doesn't take a cut of the deal they would be mugs.
High net worth individuals are going to get their share.
And if these two groups don't stump it - we will be looking at Canadian and Singapore Super Funds again.

from your article:
The Albanese government is assembling what is believed to be the highest net worth group of investors to meet in Australia because taxpayers cannot afford to bankroll some of its most high-profile initiatives.

The super funds have to take a cut of the debt the privates aren't going to stump up that money, where do the privates get a return on military equipment and who foots the bill if the renewables turn to mush, there is a chance that the return on capital may be mainly Govt subsidies on a lot of the installed capacity.
There seems to be a lot of wish and prayer going on IMO.
I don't disagree that it is good for the Govt to take this route, but to me it looks like just another nail in the middle class coffin. If we were investing in Canada's renewables that would mean their taxpayer is giving us the money back plus interest, if we invest in our own we are using our money, then we are paying ourselves the interest with our money, there is a subtle difference.

 

[Value Collector]

The super funds have to take a cut of the debt the privates aren't going to stump up that money, where do the privates get a return on military equipment and who foots the bill if the renewables turn to mush, there is a chance that the return on capital may be mainly Govt subsidies on a lot of the installed capacity.
There seems to be a lot of wish and prayer going on IMO.
I don't disagree that it is good for the Govt to take this route, but to me it looks like just another nail in the middle class coffin. If we were investing in Canada's renewables that would mean their taxpayer is giving us the money back plus interest, if we invest in our own we are using our money, then we are paying ourselves the interest with our money, there is a subtle difference.

The military can lease equipment from the private sector.

Army seeks to lease aircraft

 

[divs4ever]

The super funds have to take a cut of the debt the privates aren't going to stump up that money, where do the privates get a return on military equipment and who foots the bill if the renewables turn to mush, there is a chance that the return on capital may be mainly Govt subsidies on a lot of the installed capacity.
There seems to be a lot of wish and prayer going on IMO.
I don't disagree that it is good for the Govt to take this route, but to me it looks like just another nail in the middle class coffin.

well both parities hate the middle-class but the ALP are proud of it ( except when those middle-class are union officials ) the Greens pretend to be friends with everything ( at least until they get their hands on your wallet ) and the conservatives love capitalism until the middle-class start invading the top 5%

smells more like a scam and a plan to me



( BTW why are we buying obsolete nuke subs .. like they aren't brand new off the slipways )

we are being sold stuff that can't be sent to Ukraine for target practice

 

[farmerge]

well both parities hate the middle-class but the ALP are proud of it ( except when those middle-class are union officials ) the Greens pretend to be friends with everything ( at least until they get their hands on your wallet ) and the conservatives love capitalism until the middle-class start invading the top 5%

smells more like a scam and a plan to me



( BTW why are we buying obsolete nuke subs .. like they aren't brand new off the slipways )

we are being sold stuff that can't be sent to Ukraine for target practice

help we will be drowning in a sea of debt if we aren't already.

 

[JohnDe]

help we will be drowning in a sea of debt if we aren't already.

We already are