Superannuation, the ultimate government cash cow?

[sptrawler]

Written by a broker lol

Well it certainly didn't sound, like it came from you Humid.
Buying blue sky stocks, unless you are a seasoned trader, is nothing short of lunacy.
You will do your dough in no time.
I have heard Bowen say, Australians shouldn't concentrate their investments in Australia, well he is making sure most wont, but then again if he forces everyone into his super he can invest where ever he likes.
For Bowen to come out with that sort of nonsense, is only feeding the chook's, that don't know any better.
IMO he is shooting himself in the foot and when the left wake up to it, there will be hell to pay.lol

Same as when Keating sold super, as a way to improve your retirement and supplement the pension, so we went without pay rises.
It would have been much harder to sell it, if he said you are going to put away money to pay for your own pension. All it has done, is become another tax, on the worker.
Not only that, but if you put away more than we think you need, we will take it off you. lol
The whole super system has become a Government scam, that is bordering on a indirect tax system. IMO

 

[Humid]

Well it certainly didn't sound, like it came from you Humid.
Buying blue sky stocks, unless you are a seasoned trader, is nothing short of lunacy.
You will do your dough in no time.
I have heard Bowen say, Australians shouldn't concentrate their investments in Australia, well he is making sure most wont, but then again if he forces everyone into his super he can invest where ever he likes.
For Bowen to come out with that sort of nonsense, is only feeding the chook's, that don't know any better.
IMO he is shooting himself in the foot and when the left wake up to it, there will be hell to pay.lol

Same as when Keating sold super, as a way to improve your retirement and supplement the pension, so we went without pay rises.
It would have been much harder to sell it, if he said you are going to put away money to pay for your own pension. All it has done, is become another tax, on the worker.
Not only that, but if you put away more than we think you need, we will take it off you. lol
The whole super system has become a Government scam, that is bordering on a indirect tax system. IMO

Yeah a bit high brow for me
I think I’m starting to understand your fetish with cruises................captive audience

 

[sptrawler]

Yeah a bit high brow for me
I think I’m starting to understand your fetish with cruises................captive audience

No actually it is because there is no computer, t.v or politics, untill you get in Port, away again in 3 weeks. Yeh

 

[Humid]

No actually it is because there is no computer, t.v or politics, untill you get in Port, away again in 3 weeks. Yeh

Hence the franking credits
Set and forget

 

[sptrawler]

Hence the franking credits
Set and forget

Now I have moved on to plan B.

I was always worried, about getting to 80 and ending up on a pension.
Silly Billy and don't care Chris have cured me of that.

 

[Smurf1976]

Because we have a population of investors seduced by a tax fiddle rather than the main game of trying to make money out of capital gains.

The only time that is true is at the end of a major bull market / imminent start of a major bear market.

Under normal circumstances income accounts for a major portion of returns over time both in the US and Australia. If yield is just over 2%, well that tells you rather a lot about what's likely to come next and it's not good news for investors seeking capital gains.

 

[Humid]

Now I have moved on to plan B.

I was always worried, about getting to 80 and ending up on a pension.
Silly Billy and don't care Chris have cured me of that.

What are we talking 6k pa?

 

[sptrawler]

What are we talking 6k pa?

It's the principal that matters, if Chris doesn't give a $hit, neither do I.
I had four kids, never traveled, always had older cars that I did up. Well now at 63 it is obviously time to get out and do it.
Next April Japan, Canada, U.S, Canada east coast, U.K, cruise back to Sydney through the Panama all up 4-5 months. Just do it.

 

[Humid]

It's the principal that matters, if Chris doesn't give a $hit, neither do I.
I had four kids, never traveled, always had older cars that I did up. Well now at 63 it is obviously time to get out and do it.
Next April Japan, Canada, U.S, Canada east coast, U.K, cruise back to Sydney through the Panama all up 4-5 months. Just do it.

Now your talkin .....make a posit outa a negative
Honestly I spend that much time at airports and travelling I’m happy to stay home.

I’m thinking your doing the reverse bogan

 

[awg]

I virulently objected to the Labor Party about the Dividend Imputation policy the instant I heard about it, due to being a SMSF in pension phase, aged between 55-60..I still pay tax mate!

I retired primarily due to a medical condition..so not by choice

The idiots I spoke to, including Chris Bowens spokeswoman on the matter, were ignorant & defensive

Not one of them could understand my marginal tax situation.

so in the instance of a $25k pension, credits were ~$3500..that is pretty brutal !

If someone wants to slap me in the face, put their hand in my pocket, demean & lie to me,
they should not expect my vote. I almost always vote Labor.

Chris Bowen you f***wit, its not a gift..it was called "double taxation" before, and in my case, it would have been again...I did take notice when you said if I didnt like your policy, dont vote for us

Clearly no one was old enough to remember what happened to Dr Hewson when he upset the pensioners, students & unemployed all at once

Having said all that, I do support some reform in the areas they proposed..a cap would have been suitable.

Note the idiots initially imposed it on pensioners!!..then decided to drop it!!..do ya reckon they noticed it getting dropped..they did not.

I did not meet one person affected who was not livid.

imo, many people who were not affected at all, including most shareholders, and non-smsf
I suspect they believed all imputation credits would no longer be applied against any income

cannot imagine any of the 4% affected would have voted yes, and many others not even affected!

they did a terrible job of explaining a lame policy!

on the ABC radio, I still heard a commentator saying only 10,000 people were affected..bloke rang up and said check yr maths 4% of 25million = (1m)...she came back on and said "No..its only 10,000"...I screamed

 

[sptrawler]

I virulently objected to the Labor Party about the Dividend Imputation policy the instant I heard about it, due to being a SMSF in pension phase, aged between 55-60..I still pay tax mate!

I retired primarily due to a medical condition..so not by choice

The idiots I spoke to, including Chris Bowens spokeswoman on the matter, were ignorant & defensive

Not one of them could understand my marginal tax situation.

so in the instance of a $25k pension, credits were ~$3500..that is pretty brutal !

If someone wants to slap me in the face, put their hand in my pocket, demean & lie to me,
they should not expect my vote. I almost always vote Labor.

Chris Bowen you f***wit, its not a gift..it was called "double taxation" before, and in my case, it would have been again...I did take notice when you said if I didnt like your policy, dont vote for us

Clearly no one was old enough to remember what happened to Dr Hewson when he upset the pensioners, students & unemployed all at once

Having said all that, I do support some reform in the areas they proposed..a cap would have been suitable.

Note the idiots initially imposed it on pensioners!!..then decided to drop it!!..do ya reckon they noticed it getting dropped..they did not.

I did not meet one person affected who was not livid.

imo, many people who were not affected at all, including most shareholders, and non-smsf
I suspect they believed all imputation credits would no longer be applied against any income

cannot imagine any of the 4% affected would have voted yes, and many others not even affected!

they did a terrible job of explaining a lame policy!

on the ABC radio, I still heard a commentator saying only 10,000 people were affected..bloke rang up and said check yr maths 4% of 25million = (1m)...she came back on and said "No..its only 10,000"...I screamed

How are you going AWG, long time no hear.
There is a couple of threads on the issue, in general chat section, smurph brought up about your situation, Bill M and I are in the same predicament as you. Quite a few were unsympathetic to our situation, we would have received more sympathy if we had arrived by leaky boat wearing a Rolex.
Thankfully the silent majority saw through Labor

 

[Bill M]

so in the instance of a $25k pension, credits were ~$3500..that is pretty brutal !

One of best posts I've read in a long time. I'm almost exactly as the above. It just meant a salary drop of 15 to 20%. I wonder how everyone would have voted if they were facing that? No one would vote for that, I bet! Like you say, they are still in denial.

 

[awg]

my rant isnt over...

So if you have between 500k and 1M in SMSF are you supposed to be considered rich ?

I thought the Govt did not want me to draw on an Age Pension ?

@4% = 20-40k per year (and I pay some tax), its not exactly living high on the hog

So 80/20 rule..20% drew 80% of "refund"...the remaining 80% drew only 20%,
therefore a cap on maximum refund would be much fairer, and I would support the idea

I also support some reform in property taxes, even though I have an investment property.

As youse would all know though, until they are paid off, they dont make +cashflow,
and you cant eat an unrealised capital gain

strongly suspect aspiring younger property investors would not have been happy about the negative gearing changes either, and not sure whether Chris & his mates fully remember what happened when Paul Keating did the same thing, had to pull it 12mths later..but they would have been in diapers then

and yes, think i copped a forum flogging last time,

but whats the difference between a super rebate, dividend imputation credit, diesel rebate, or any other form of redistribution of wealth via Govt concession ?

 

[sptrawler]

but whats the difference between a super rebate, dividend imputation credit, diesel rebate, or any other form of redistribution of wealth via Govt concession ?

The difference is, Labor thought it would kill two birds with one stone, hit the super wealthy SMSF's and get the smaller ones to roll over into Industry Funds.
There was no down side and when it was so well received by the press, then they thought this is easy, the press is also hammering property investors skewing the market so we will fix that too.
IMO what Labor didn't factor in is the younger generation are savy, don't read the papers and don't watch the news. So all the media becomes, is an echo chamber for presenters and those left leaning ones who love hearing themselves. Just my opinion.
The whole thing has a Keating flavour to it, way too smart for Billy and the boys, well it may be the end of an era. IMO
The other thing is, if Labor had really cared who the franking credit removal would hit, exempting welfare recipients wouldn't have been an after thought, in reality they didn't care who it hit. The same goes for the NG and CGT changes, they would have built in some form of progressiveness in all the changes, if the actually cared.
So the silent majority spoke, that's why the polls didn't pick it up. IMO

 

[sptrawler]

The Government is getting into the reverse mortgage field.

https://www.smh.com.au/money/super-...heme-poised-for-take-off-20190702-p523bq.html

I like this part, from the article:
“Retirees can be averse to downsizing from the family home because it impacts on the age pension, but income from the pension loan scheme is free of the pension asset test,” Henschke says.

Until a change of Government decides to include it in the asset test. Just my opinion.

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting situation that went to the supreme court, Bluescope only paid super on normal working hours, not on O/T hours. From memory I think that is all that was required by law.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07...rkers-miss-back-pay/11298700?section=business

The part that I find funny, is what the senior vice president of the NSW branch of the AWU said.
"Superannuation was established by the labour movement precisely so that workers like those at BlueScope could retire comfortably," he said.

"This decision pushes against that objective and that should be rectified through legislation."

Where has he been living? Over recent history, there has been a push for everyone to accept, that super is to replace your pension not enhance it. That was made blatantly obvious, last election.

 

[sptrawler]

Here is a more accurate assessment of SMSF's and their balances, for people who are actually interested in the facts.
https://smsmagazine.com.au/news/2018/07/24/statistics-show-smsfs-not-just-for-the-rich/

From the article:
The most recent figures pertaining to the sector reveal there are currently 592,658 SMSFs servicing 1.12 million members. The average assets per member stand at $599,265, with the average assets per fund being $1.12 million.

However, the median statistics reflect a slightly different picture, with the median assets per member standing at $362,280 and the median assets per SMSF currently coming in at $641,983.

 

[sptrawler]

At last a glimmer of hope for workers, there is a groundswell in the coalitions ranks, to let workers chose if they want more super or pay rises.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...reases-to-superannuation-20190722-p529j8.html

 

[sptrawler]

First State and Vic Super, to merge.

https://www.financialstandard.com.au/news/first-state-super-vicsuper-merger-talks-progress-139479609

From the article:
The similarities are also reflected in the numbers.

As at May 31, the average accumulation balance at VicSuper is $97,618 while First State's is $93,996. In pensions phase, the average VicSuper member has $334,177 compared to First State's $289,537.

VicSuper's membership comprises 65% women which is virtually on par with First State's 67%. From an age perspective, VicSuper's average member is 45, while First State's is 46.

In terms of investment returns, MySuper investment returns from June 30 show VicSuper has achieved a five-year return of 8.23%, close to First State's 8.3%. Over a 10-year period, VicSuper has outperformed First State, achieving 9.17% and 8.77% respectively.

 

[sptrawler]

I certainly hope this doesn't end in tears, Australian Super direct lending to corporate and commercial businesses, it will be interesting to see how it unfolds.
https://www.theage.com.au/business/...g-to-property-developers-20190723-p529rt.html