Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

SUN - Suncorp Group

Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Here's editorial comment on SUN from FNArena below.

Another negative factor influencing this company is its loans to AFG and MFS.

"Suncorp Result Raises Serious Questions
FN Arena News - February 29 2008

By Chris Shaw

Given the company had previously outlined how recent storms would impact on its insurance earnings it is little surprise Suncorp-Metway (SUN) has delivered a profit result broadly in line with market expectations, at least in terms of headline numbers.

But looking deeper into the result gave both Citi and Macquarie reason to be less than positive on the group's outlook, both brokers downgrading the stock to Hold from Buy following further analysis of the released figures. For Macquarie the downgrade comes despite minor increases to earnings forecasts as it expects the market will look more closely at the banking division's outlook and possibly see a few things it doesn't like, particularly with respect to provisioning for bad debts and lower consumer credit quality.

Citi has taken a somewhat different approach in reaching a similar decision, focusing on the insurance division and lowering its forecasts both here and for the group overall to reflect expectations of lower reserve releases going forward. The other issue in the broker's view is the bank's need for capital, as evidenced by the decision to underwrite the dividend reinvestment plan.

Macquarie too notes this and points out management has indicated Tier 1 and Tier 2 capital requirements will likely see hybrid securities issued in coming months. Merrill Lynch expects the rate of reserve increases will slow going forward, it and UBS expecting margins to come under pressure as a result and for this to highlight the need for a capital raising of some kind.

The problem according to Merrills is the need for capital raisings comes at a difficult time in terms of the underlying market environment and the weak share price, so it is little surprise the stock is under pressure.

Having said that the broker argues the share price reaction to the result was too severe as it made only minor changes to forecasts and these don't justify the near 8% drop in the stock that followed the result. But UBS has lowered its earnings estimates by 10-11% post the announcement, so the share price reaction may reflect some catching up of market expectations.

In terms of earnings forecasts going forward UBS now has earnings per share (EPS) estimates of 91c for FY08 and 113c for FY09, while Merrills is forecasting 87c and 132c and Macquarie is at 107c and 157c respectively in terms of adjusted EPS. Thomson One Analytics shows median EPS estimates of 117c and 153c.

While only Macquarie and Citi adjusted ratings post the result price targets have been more widely adjusted, Credit Suisse dropping its target to $20.00 from $23.50 and UBS to $15.00 from $18.00. This brings down the average price target in the FNArena database to $17.99 from $18.87, ABN Amro still leading with its target of $21.35. It is worth noting the broker is yet to update its view post the profit result. Thomson One has a median price target on the shares of $18.00.

The database shows the stock is now rated as Buy four times, Hold five times and Underperform once, this by JP Morgan who simply sees too many issues surrounding the stock given the uncertain economic and financial market conditions, downside risk in insurance rates and the likely amount of reserve releases.

Shares in Suncorp-Metway today have continued their slide in line with a weak overall market and as at 11.50am were down 22c to $14.09."






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Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Good luck. Do hope it picks up soon and that you've managed to pick the bottom.

Thank you for your well presented opinion. I hope you do well with your investments too, we are all here for the same thing, to make money. Cheers:)
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Actually SUN mentioned not once but several times, their earning going forward will be impacted by bad debts so I think they are fairly honest about their position and I'm fairly happy with their disclosure on claims and thing.

There could be more down side but at this price it's really hard to pick where the bottom is..... I just go with what I know lock it in :D

Trading below $12 someone maybe make a hostile take over of $15 bucks :)
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Lets face it...anyone buying at the moment is bottom picking...(trying to pick the bottom)

I brought into SUN at 14.45 *28/02/08* so clearly missed the current bottom of 13.90.

Time will tell whats the real bottom...im still happy with a buy under 14.50
med/long term im sure ill do ok....still a little pissed off i didn't wait 1 day longer.:aufreg:
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Lets face it...anyone buying at the moment is bottom picking...(trying to pick the bottom)

I brought into SUN at 14.45 *28/02/08* so clearly missed the current bottom of 13.90.

Time will tell whats the real bottom...im still happy with a buy under 14.50
med/long term im sure ill do ok....still a little pissed off i didn't wait 1 day longer.:aufreg:

I know the feeling sir. But unfortunately, there will be worse to come on Monday- I hate to think, and then Tues when SUN goes ex-dividend, declaring a healthy 52c dividend. But hey, the silver lining, DRP at these prices is very welcome.
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

If its any consolation i bought in late last year at $17.5:(
Also bought IAG at $4.90:banghead: last year and doubled up at $3.55.
With QBE dropping so much im thinking of selling half of AIG and putting it into QBE.
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

thought i'll share my thots if they are worth anything. ;)

with this global economical climate & volatility, the markets are very sensitive to bad news & the very first industry that gets hit is the banking & finance industry. I think we would all agree that the dust has not settled regrading credit crunch. are we not still seeing flow of bad news that so-and-so banks are writing down $x of debts etc? With the DOW down over 300 pts last week, IMHO, our big four & investment banks are lined up for some smashing come tuesday... anyone seeing a silver lining close by? :p:

what i'm saying is, is there logic to buy banks, insurance companies, financial services companies in this climate? :eek:

:2twocents
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

thought i'll share my thots if they are worth anything. ;)

with this global economical climate & volatility, the markets are very sensitive to bad news & the very first industry that gets hit is the banking & finance industry. I think we would all agree that the dust has not settled regrading credit crunch. are we not still seeing flow of bad news that so-and-so banks are writing down $x of debts etc? With the DOW down over 300 pts last week, IMHO, our big four & investment banks are lined up for some smashing come tuesday... anyone seeing a silver lining close by? :p:

what i'm saying is, is there logic to buy banks, insurance companies, financial services companies in this climate? :eek:

:2twocents

Hmm.. you can't use one day's movement on the dow to strengthen your argument lol. Another way of looking at it, Suncorp is an Australian company with solid fundamentals that has had it's share price nearly halved in this climate, so a lot of this sentiment is built into the share price. So this is why people are bottom-picking, of course they are aware of these issues, so is the share price :2twocents.
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

hi ANDY62,

thanks for your comments. :)

one day's movement might not be a good gauge of the market. but a market that volatile deserves plenty of caution. Personally at the moment, I'm bearish towards the banking & finance sector, LPTs & companies that rely heavily on US consumption. And I'm sure there are many blue chip companies with good solid fundamentals within these sectors. But blue chip or not, when the market turns, nearly every companies turn with it...

sadly to say, no matter how fundamental sound a company is, in the short term, all SP is at the mercy of market sentiments... interesting to see how SUN will pan out after XD :rolleyes:

:2twocents
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Thanks Kerosam. I take your point. Personally, I've got a a considerable amount of my portfolio in gold/resources for your stated reasons. Buying SUN, I was aware of the risk and the chance of further falls. But in the long term, 8% FF dividends and the avoidance of freak weather / freak financial crisis should see old sunnie do alright.
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Whats going on with Suncorp?????

Takeover speculation?

I cant for the life of me find any articles about SUN this morning. Any ideas
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Hmm interesting. Can't see any news, there were some large buyers early in the morning at good prices, this suggests something is in the air.. who knows? Originally, I held a vain hope that the market had an epiphany .. 'what a ridiculous price for SUN' :D
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

I think SUN is extremely good value when it trades around $11... I average down all the way and SUN is my biggest holding now.

Considering Warren Buffett is currently out in the market looking for insurance business. He must have known the insurance cycle has reach rock bottom in term of premium.
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Both SUN and IAG have done well in the last two days.

Although I would have thought that SUN is to small for Bershire Hathaway.

Buffet would have liked QBE over the other two. (its doing better, and has a US presence. It also doesnt pay out big dividends and likes to retain as much earnings as possible, kinda like the Bershire model.
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Both SUN and IAG have done well in the last two days.

Although I would have thought that SUN is to small for Bershire Hathaway.

Buffet would have liked QBE over the other two. (its doing better, and has a US presence. It also doesnt pay out big dividends and likes to retain as much earnings as possible, kinda like the Bershire model.

I'm not saying Buffett wants SUN..he's just out in the market after insurance business in general, no one knows what he like or doesn't like .. :D
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

I'm not saying Buffett wants SUN..he's just out in the market after insurance business in general, no one knows what he like or doesn't like .. :D

Yes we do, good businesses that are undervalued and that given the right tweak will recover.

He has done that over and over and is his secret. But you have to use your own ruler and undestand what you are measuring.
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

Interesting, SUN has an ASX price queery today and they say they know nothing.

Looks like the recent activity has just been a fund manager increasing their stake, although they have been putting in their buy orders a bit to quickly, (ie. not spacing them out throughout the day, but buying heavy in the morning)
 
Re: SUN - Suncorp-Metway

I may be mistaken but the recent share price rally may also relate to SUN directors buying shares (7/3/08). The rally seems to be out of kilter with the big banks though.

"Breaking News": http://business.theage.com.au/suncorp-in-the-dark-over-share-price-spike/20080311-1yno.html

People just work SUN current share price reflect real bargain and they all line up want a piece of it, especially the fund managers that has too much money and not enough good stock to buy :D
 
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