Suicide and Voluntary Euthanasia

[Mofra]

This is one of the most moving things I have ever read, thanks tech/a. How can any person, with even the remotest shred of human compassion and basic decency, deny such sufferers a dignified end. It beggars comprehension.

Stand aside Kevin Andrews and all such religious demagogues. The 21st century has arrived, there is no place for you here.

It is a sad state of affairs that an animal suffering incredible pain and degradation of life can be euthanised, yet the same courtesy is denied human beings in this country due to being held as political ransom by special interest religeous types.

 

[Ruby]

It is a sad state of affairs that an animal suffering incredible pain and degradation of life can be euthanised, yet the same courtesy is denied human beings in this country due to being held as political ransom by special interest religeous types.

Too true Mofra! I have had several cats euthanised when their quality of life has gone. I take them to the vet; they have The Needle; painlessly dead in less than 30 seconds. I would like to be able to request The Needle if my life replicated some of the very sad cases mentioned in this thread.

I think it is honouring life to grant people a dignified death if they request it.

 

[Judd]

Personal reasons such as sadness, depression, lonely, lost partner and want to go to, drug addiction.

So the 33-year old lass who didn't turn up for work and we got the police to her place, took her own life for personal reasons. We noticed that she was very sad and depressed on occasions.

Pity she was suffering from multiple sclerosis, had great difficulty with mobility and function and knew what the final outcome of the condition would be. I feel she showed great courage.

And tech/a, sad to hear about your friend. Been there with relatives and it is just so, so difficult. Bring back heroin for palliative care (they stopped using it in the 1960's at the instance of certain overseas governments.. Beats morphine hands down for pain relief.

 

[gordon2007]

I’ve been watching this thread closely. Due to the decline in my mother-in-laws health I have not really been able to get myself up to writing anything. However things have changed.

I can honestly say, from the bottom of my heart, that euthanasia should be allowed.

Mum has suffered from dementia for several years now. During the last 10 months though, it has gone from bad to considerably worse. The last 5 weeks has been absolutely hell though.

Mum had a fall. Being in full time care we weren’t freaked when hearing about this because, as we get older, these things do happen. However, upon having a few more falls in the next few days we knew something was up. Mum was rushed to the hospital for tests and observations.

It was determined she had a UTI. However, upon the necessary meds given there was no recovery. It was then they discovered she had had a massive stroke in her brain stem.

We were told there would be no recovery. We decided to take her off all meds and let nature follow its course. We were told death would happen within 4-7 days. Nature was not good to mum.

Mum could not eat, drink, speak or use her body functions properly. Her only sense of communication was waking up every 2 hours saying she had to wee. She begged and begged to get out of bed and use the toilet. Her body had failed her though. She could not use her legs any more. All the modern nursing equipment could not make her pee. You could see the fear in her, thinking she was going to wee the bed. All the care in the world and all the talking in the world could not convince her it was OK to wee in bed with her special nappies on. She was too dignified to wee in the bed, too demented to realise she was in the hospital on her death bed.

For 29 days, mums only thoughts were trying to get out of bed to wee. Her fear of wetting herself was so strong she offered sexual favours to me if I were to take her to the toilet. Where is the dignity in that?

For 15 days, she survived with no food, barely a drop of water here and there, but yet still very much in fear.

You can give someone all the morphine you want, but in this case, and many others, there was no dignity in dying. Only pain, suffering and anguish. The physical pain and suffering she endured with, I was sad for her but I handled it.

The emotional pain and suffering, the fear and lack of dignity, will hurt for a very long time.

I gave serious consideration in finding drugs on the street I could have given her to die. I would of. I thought heroine. Don’t know, maybe if I pump her full of heroine she’ll OD and die quick. Sadly, my fear of getting caught and going to jail prevented me.
It’s a very sad state of affairs that we let a dog, cat, horse and many other animals be put down with dignity. But we can’t do this for a human.

We buried her Thursday. RIP.

 

[Ruby]

Gordon2007, this is such a sad story, and you have my deepest sympathy. However, it is all too common. I do not understand how anyone who has seen a loved one die in pain or with loss of dignity, could NOT be in favour of voluntary euthanasia.

Ruby

 

[Logique]

It is a sad state of affairs that an animal suffering incredible pain and degradation of life can be euthanised, yet the same courtesy is denied human beings in this country due to being held as political ransom by special interest religeous types.

Too right Mofra. We are all of us going to have to lay down the law to our elected representatives.

 

[Mofra]

Gordon, my condolances. It must have been a very difficult time for you, and you have eloquently described a circumstance where the choice for euthanasia should (in my opinion) be available.

 

[Julia]

You can give someone all the morphine you want, but in this case, and many others, there was no dignity in dying. Only pain, suffering and anguish. The physical pain and suffering she endured with, I was sad for her but I handled it.

The emotional pain and suffering, the fear and lack of dignity, will hurt for a very long time.

I gave serious consideration in finding drugs on the street I could have given her to die. I would of. I thought heroine. Don’t know, maybe if I pump her full of heroine she’ll OD and die quick. Sadly, my fear of getting caught and going to jail prevented me.
It’s a very sad state of affairs that we let a dog, cat, horse and many other animals be put down with dignity. But we can’t do this for a human.

We buried her Thursday. RIP.

Gordon, I'm so very sorry for what your family has been through.

As you say, we offer our pets a peaceful end, and the irony is that we can in fact be prosecuted for not doing this if they are suffering.

You so understandably focus on her loss of dignity. This is the aspect so ignored by those who refuse to consider euthanasia, saying that modern palliative care and drugs ease the pain of most people. Pain is only one aspect, and many old people are not actually in pain so therefore don't even receive the benefit of a diminished awareness which is one of the effects of morphine et al.

Obviously your mother in law, despite dementia, was acutely distressed.
How utterly unnecessary and how futile.

I understand, too, your own sense of helplessness at wanting to ease her distress, but completely realistically obviously being quite unable to do so.
I'm so sorry.

 

[Knobby22]

There should be more room in the law for common sense.

There needs to be protection so Euthanasia is not abused but surely we can come up with a solution that involves a bit more choice and dignity.

It is funny we are talking on other threads about invasive government and the "left" want to control us but on this issue it is the "right" who want to control us.

Maybe the fact we can't get our act together as a country on this issue is due to people in power not wanting to think about their own death and so seek to ignore any issues to do with it as much as possible.

 

[Julia]

There will be a special live broadcast of "Australia Talks", on "Dying with Dignity" tomorrow, August 3rd, at 6pm on Radio National.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/australiatalks/

The participants are:


Dr Philip Nitschke, Founder and Director of Exit International,
Associate Professor Patrick McArdie, Australian Catholic University
Dr Scott Blackwell, Palliative Care Australia's President Elect
Dr Kaarin Anstey, Director of the Ageing Research Unit at the Centre for Mental Health Research, ANU.

 

[Logique]

Quite a good listen Julia.
Virtually all were in support, audience and panel, the ones that were heard anyway. Phillip Nitszche acquitted himself well. One of the few Greens policies I can live with, that and denticare.

 

[Julia]

Yes, for once the palliative care doctor and the other Catholic University person were reasonable and balanced in their comments. As always, the moderator was good.

Philip Nitschke is very passionate about his cause and sometimes this does see him sounding a bit strident.

Agree about the Greens. Pity most of the rest of their policies are so woeful.

 

[Happy]

...

It’s a very sad state of affairs that we let a dog, cat, horse and many other animals be put down with dignity. But we can’t do this for a human.

...

And the only reason is that SYSTEM could be abused.

Strange, but for that could be law and rules and regulations and honestly suffering individuals could be given the dignity in death that they deseve.


I am sure, one day we will be fighting economically motivated compulsory euthanasia.

 

[Calliope]

Euthanasia is legal now. It becomes illegal when there is another party involved. and therein lies the problem. Most people of a mature age are making arrangements for their final exit when life becomes not worth living.

The big problem is when to activate it. No one wants to go too early, but if left too late the management of your life may pass to a third party. One never knows when a stroke, dementia or an accident may take all decisions out of your hands.

In this condition everyone has an obligation to keep you alive as long as they can, even if you are a vegetable. Your only escape is if you are lucky enough to have a rational doctor.

 

[gordon2007]

In this condition everyone has an obligation to keep you alive as long as they can, even if you are a vegetable. Your only escape is if you are lucky enough to have a rational doctor.

Why though?. Why should there be an 'obligation' to keep you alive if you're not really living and enjoying life. Why, if you're suffering unimaginable pain, suffering and fear. Why, if it's ones wishes shall we carrying on a life they did not want?

To hell with 'obligations.

 

[DocK]

This is why it's so important to have a medical directive (?) in place, at least if you have documented your wishes in the event of losing the capacity to voice them for yourself, there is a chance the right thing will be done. My brother and I disagreed quite strongly about what measures should or shouldn't have been taken to prolong my father's life (or not) and if my mother and my father's doctors had not been able to persuade him that drastic measures were futile (not to mention cruel to Dad) his death may have been much harder than necessary. For this reason I have ensured that Mum has documented her wishes (duly witnessed by JP) and that a copy is held with her GP, as well as with me. Although this won't by any means allow for euthanasia as such, at least it will prevent the artificial prolonging of life in certain circumstances.

 

[Julia]

Dock, if your mother already has a hospital file, you might also want to consider placing a copy of the Advance Health Directive on that file.
If she (or any of us) were to be acutely admitted to hospital, perhaps as a result of an accident where only the ambulance was involved, not her GP, and you weren't advised until after she'd been received at A & E, the treating doctors wouldn't necessarily know about her wishes.

And I think we have to remember that Advance Health Directives are not just appropriate for elderly people. We are all at risk of an acute medical/accident event at any time.

I also carry a notice with me that makes clear an AHD is in place, and that it must be adhered to.

For anyone who might be interested in the follow up online discussion after the broadcast of the "Dying with Dignity" Radio National program I referred to above, there is some informed and interesting ongoing discussion here:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/australiatalks/stories/2010/2964330.htm

For those unfamiliar with the "Australia Talks" program, it's a one hour discussion on a different subject every weekday, with usually two or three guests and questions from phone in and online audience. Usually intelligent and thoughtful, completely different from commercial talk programs.

 

[DocK]

Yes, Julia, that would be a good idea, but as she lives in Brisvegas I think in the event of an ambulance ride she would not necessarily be taken to the hospital of her choice, but whichever was "on call"? I'm not sure of hospital procedure, but will mention to her that she may want to check this out with her GP and main specialists. If she has a file at any hospital I'm sure she would have given them a copy, but best to check. The major bonus of her completing the Adv Health Directive is that my brother has been given quite clear instructions that she would not wish him to prolong her life for his benefit. I believe it is quite common for families to disagree quite vehemently over this issue (based only on discussions with friends) and a clear directive should prevent this. Unfortunately a lot of people are very reluctant to discuss this subject with their nearest and dearest.

As far as my husband and I go, as we own each other's life insurance we're ready to pull the plug on each other at the first opportunity

 

[Calliope]

Why though?. Why should there be an 'obligation' to keep you alive if you're not really living and enjoying life. Why, if you're suffering unimaginable pain, suffering and fear. Why, if it's ones wishes shall we carrying on a life they did not want?

To hell with 'obligations.

Don't ask me. Ask your politicians. It won't do any good, but ask anyway.

 

[explod]

Don't ask me. Ask your politicians. It won't do any good, but ask anyway.

It was a fair question, "dont' ask me" what sort of an answer is that?

"it wont do any good..." how do you know ?

The more we question and ask the closer we go to change.