Storm Financial Group

[bunyip]

I started reading this thread some weeks ago in the hope of picking up some useful advice. I am not sure what.

We already know that we were stupid and naive and that "something that seems to be too good to be true usually is". We also know that what was always a pretty meagre nest egg at best is now a non-existent one. It is pointless wasting any energy getting upset or angry.

We were directed to Storm by our then financial adviser in 2006 and stupidly let them make our decisions. No matter how many times we said we were uncomfortable with the amount of debt we had (with no assets) we were always talked out of it. Yes, we feel pretty weak and silly about that too.

Even though we phoned and emailed, they stopped communicating with us in December and left MacQuarie Bank to chase up the loan which was quickly turning in to a negative due to the interest. We now have an argument with the bank as they did not action a letter emailed prior to Xmas asking that the loan was paid out by our cashed up share portfolio CMT until January 6th.

We are trying to be proactive, although we are starting from a pretty weak base. No matter how many skills you have, trying to get employment at 65 in a shrinking job market is not easy.

We really do need some advice on what to do. No financial planner is going to be interested in us as we really have nothing left to invest. I guess we are down to survival now. What are other people doing? On the bright side we are not either flooded out nor surrounded by bushfires!!!

Thanks for your very honest post.
Although I've been very forthright in my views, I feel genuinely sorry for the predicament you and other Storm victims find yourselves in.


Your first port of call is obviously to check with Centrelink to see what you're elibible for. Perhaps you've already done that.

You mention that you're 65 and it's hard to get jobs.
On my morning walk each day I sometimes call in and have a yarn to a 72 year old man who hires a garage where he makes wooden stands for fish tanks. He learned the skill through a TAFE course in carpentry, says there's ready demand for what he makes, and it provides a handy little money- making sideline to supplement his pension. He works 3 or 4 hours a day, whatever suits him.
It struck me as a handy way for a pensioner to make a few extra bob, or just provide him with an interesting hobby that keeps him active in body and mind.
I'm sure there are other such backyard industries that could be pursued by older people on a part time basis. It might be worth checking with TAFE to see what courses they offer.
Just a thought.........

 

[joeyr46]

harsh but very good advice not always what we want to hear when things go wrong, I've been lucky to work with a lot of people who don't play the blame game but take responsibility and address the problems as best they can given the circumstances.When things are good or bad I often think of this saying not sure where it comes from except attributed to Anon, (seems he wrote a lot)
Yesterday's history
Tomorrows a mystery
Today is a gift that's why it's called the present

 

[hart2hart]

Thanks for your very honest post.
Although I've been very forthright in my views, I feel genuinely sorry for the predicament you and other Storm victims find yourselves in.


Your first port of call is obviously to check with Centrelink to see what you're elibible for. Perhaps you've already done that.

You mention that you're 65 and it's hard to get jobs.
On my morning walk each day I sometimes call in and have a yarn to a 72 year old man who hires a garage where he makes wooden stands for fish tanks. He learned the skill through a TAFE course in carpentry, says there's ready demand for what he makes, and it provides a handy little money- making sideline to supplement his pension. He works 3 or 4 hours a day, whatever suits him.
It struck me as a handy way for a pensioner to make a few extra bob, or just provide him with an interesting hobby that keeps him active in body and mind.
I'm sure there are other such backyard industries that could be pursued by older people on a part time basis. It might be worth checking with TAFE to see what courses they offer.
Just a thought.........

I am embarrassed that you feel sorry for us. Please don't, we at least have our lives, our health and a future unlike the bushfire victims.

Thanks for your suggestions.

The good news is that I have obtained a small part time job which had 80 applicants. Just need a few more now. The other member of the team is getting a Taxi licence.

 

[Julia]

I am embarrassed that you feel sorry for us. Please don't, we at least have our lives, our health and a future unlike the bushfire victims.

Thanks for your suggestions.

The good news is that I have obtained a small part time job which had 80 applicants. Just need a few more now. The other member of the team is getting a Taxi licence.

With an attitude like you're showing here, any employer will be lucky to have you. I'm not surprised you won the job from 80 applicants.

I wish you every possible good luck, though I think you will make your own luck.

 

[bunyip]

I am embarrassed that you feel sorry for us. Please don't, we at least have our lives, our health and a future unlike the bushfire victims.

Thanks for your suggestions.

The good news is that I have obtained a small part time job which had 80 applicants. Just need a few more now. The other member of the team is getting a Taxi licence.

Over the years I've read some wise words that have stuck in my mind. Here's an example...

The measure of a man or woman is not what happens to them in their lives, but how they react to it.

You appear to be reacting to your situation with immense strength of character....no crying over it, no misdirected anger, no trying to put all the blame on someone else. You're seeing the positives and you're getting on with life by making the best you can of a bad situation.
I'd hope that I'd be capable of following your example in a similar situation.

I can see you'll get over this and put it behind you. I really do wish you all the best.

 

[boomai]

January 20, 2009 11:00pm
FAILED investment group Storm Financial allegedly pumped oxygen on 300 or more clients to raise levels of enthusiasm during extended seminars.
The Queensland company, which collapsed this month, also purportedly used listening devices to monitor conversations in private rooms used for one-on-one consultations with prospective investors.

Perth-based financial planner Cameron Paul alleged yesterday that Storm executives, including founder Emmanuel Cassimatis, proudly revealed the bizarre inner workings of the company's Brisbane office about two years ago.

Mr Paul said he was shown the oxygen tanks used during the seminars and Mr Cassimatis personally told him about the use of bugs to listen in on clients.
..........
I knew they were slick but this is truely unconscionable......

Hi, This is my first post as I've only just joined this forum.
As an ex-empoyee and ex-storm investor (yes.. I've lost it all too) I can say that the above quote is totally untrue. The first Air-Con unit in Townsville did have a oxygen enhancing mechanism.. (it pumped more fresh air from outside instead of re-cycling stale air and was supposed to increase Oxygen content by .5%) It was a supplement much like all the sweets and tea and coffee that were doled out to try and keep people awake through long boring seminars.
There were no oxygen cylinders in Storm offices nor were there hidden microphones or recorders.

It's taken me a couple of days to catchup on 49 pages of forum.
I have found some good inspiring information in these pages.

I obviously know a lot about Storm, their methods etc.
I'm not pro-storm.
The fault for my position has been 100% mine for not taking adequate precautions.

What has caused 500+ investors to go to the wall is the stock market falling by 52% whilst being heavily margined.. also.. some blame here can go to 80% to Storm for bad advice and 20% (in the case of clients whose margin loans (ML) were with Colonial) to CBA.

In general those clients who had ML's with Macquarie were sold down with about 20% of their stock intact.. still not enough to pay back their house loans but far better than negative equity positions.

A saying banted around was "what you can measure, you can manage".

Storm measured their clients LVR's.

But Storm did not manage their clients LVR's.

Storm showed that they could manage (limit) LVR's when in early October as they had ML clients sign documents authorising them to switch 50-75% of clients funds to cash to reduce LVR's.

Around October 17 Storm had these clients to sign a new document to switch 100% funds to cash. Unfortunately Storm didn't pass these requests on to the Margin Lender. Some clients who asked were told that it was in the hands of their margin lender.


I find it hard to come to terms with the lies I've believed, the bad advice that I have taken, and my family who I have let down.

I may rant a little more.. but as pointed out.. doesn't achieve results.
Thanks.

 

[pilots]

Boomai, I was in Brisbane last year, we meet up with a couple who's son drove a truck for a gas company, he told us that he had delivered oxygen to some clubs and casinos, as well as some offices in the town center. They did say anything about storm, but this is going on in some places.

 

[shibby]

In general those clients who had ML's with Macquarie were sold down with about 20% of their stock intact.. still not enough to pay back their house loans but far better than negative equity positions.
Well bad luck prevailed there in my case

Storm measured their clients LVR's.
But Storm did not manage their clients LVR's.
not sure what that means?

Storm showed that they could manage (limit) LVR's when in early October as they had ML clients sign documents authorising them to switch 50-75% of clients funds to cash to reduce LVR's.

Around October 17 Storm had these clients to sign a new document to switch 100% funds to cash. Unfortunately Storm didn't pass these requests on to the Margin Lender.
why?

Please tell me why, particularly when I repeatedly asked and asked to be sold up, why they wouldn't sell us up -
I am one of many who want to know - or should I say need to know the answer to this question.

I wish you all the best I really do. I am assuming you have youth on your side so just keep plugging away, one day at a time.
I appreciate that you have come forward it is a very brave thing you have done

 

[Neddy]

Boomai: thanks for the post – would you kindly clarify something for me? I am aware of the storm letter dated 8-October advising clients to convert to 100% cash, and I am aware that many clients immediately signed and returned to Storm documents authorising this action, but I am unclear about why this did not happen. With the benefit of some insider knowledge, can you explain why EC himself made the recommendation in writing but then apparently failed to act as per his own recommendations when instructed to do so? Did he sit on the instructions to sell, or did the bank somehow prevent it from happening?

The best of luck to you in tough times....

 

[bunyip]

It took Storm long enough to realise that cash was the place to be.....by October 8 the market had already plunged 36%
It would surely have been prudent to jump ship long before the market fell that far.

This outfit seems to have been making up its risk management strategy as it went along.

 

[Gerkin]

Boomai
I am on your side however I hope that you have 1) posted from an IP address that cant be tracked and 2) used a fake email address to sign up.

I am only pointing this out as I know how restrictive employment contracts are in this industry, and under my contract your post could get myself in the sh*t.

Please reconsider what you post and even reconsider what your employment contract says.

My current and my previous contracts are quite restrictive in all areas including after I finish working for the firm.

Please note I am in now way connected to Storm.

 

[bunyip]

Boomai

If you can answer this without putting yourself at risk, then I'd appreciate your insights.

I said in an earlier post that Storm seem to have been making up their risk management strategy as they went along.
I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong on that point. But to me it almost beggars belief that a professional financial planning firm would wait until the market fell more than 36%, before they decided it was time to move into cash.
Even then, it appears that they didn't follow through on that decision.
Is there something I'm missing here, or did they indeed make up their risk management as they went along?
If they didn't, then can you tell us exactly what their risk management parameters were?

 

[Nick Radge]

If you have a Statement Of Advice (SoA) that states they will sell assets then anything otherwise is discretionary trading. Discretionary Trading is THE death of any broker or financial planner. I cannot stress this enough. If you can prove that they have not followed the agreed advice, for whatever reason, then they will answer to ASIC and I can assure you that ASIC will come down on them like a tonne of bricks.

Secondly, the 'basis of advice' is also an important issue that is heavily scrutinized. If they have pages of disclaimers and risk warnings yet failed to build a 'realistic' risk buffer into their assumptions, then their 'basis' for advice may be under threat. By this I mean that this bollocks LVR of 50% as 'industry standard' is not good enough because it suggest that the advisor has no historical perspective and has therefore not shown enough knowledge to form the basis of advice in the first place. This industry standard 50% LVR that brokers are using now is nothing but a cheap scapegoat. Why place 50 pages of disclaimers and risk warning in an SoA yet build a portfolio without any buffer? We've had enough historical examples to know that sh*t hits the fan and that 50% LVR is not enough. If they are true industry professionals they would know this stuff.

Unfortunately the issue here is that even if you successfully prove your case it's to a lost cause. The money has more than likely gone. I'm not sure that there is enough cause for claims to go through to CBA. I know for a fact that many major insto's are settling claims on the quiet to keep them out of the media, but they have some firm financial backing, which I don't think is apparent here.

 

[Solly]

........Around October 17 Storm had these clients to sign a new document to switch 100% funds to cash. Unfortunately Storm didn't pass these requests on to the Margin Lender. Some clients who asked were told that it was in the hands of their margin lender.


I find it hard to come to terms with the lies I've believed, the bad advice that I have taken, and my family who I have let down.

I may rant a little more.. but as pointed out.. doesn't achieve results.
Thanks.

boomai...Have you considered calling ASIC on 1300 300 630 ??

I believe that you should seek advice, you may be covered under the Corporations Act for alerting of this behaviour...

 

[Solly]

I've just checked the "Ask E&J" tab on their website.

I had a look at this question and response regarding an element of their strategy, here's the link.

http://cassimatis.com.au/FAQRetrieve.aspx?ID=35781

I'm unclear about what they mean when they state:
...."We don’t believe our strategies were risky in normal circumstances". What do they mean by "normal circumstances"..?

 

[pilots]

Just watched corners, was that right, that someone had 1.8Mil loan against his house??

 

[Pindibog]

Just watched corners, was that right, that someone had 1.8Mil loan against his house??

I think it was 300 for house and then 1.5 margin loan or around abouts. They said he used his super? How is that so when he did not look of retirement age. Oh his wage was around $50, 000 a year. Australian version of subprime!

 

[pilots]

Yes every one was happy when it was on its way up, but the boot is on the other foot now. All the sales people will now be back at work looking for the next lot of people to rip off. Storm is just one of the companies that will crash this year.

 

[bunyip]

The two questions I posted to the Cassamatis website haven't been answered, and I doubt if they will be.
They've said they reserve the right to select the questions that will be published to the website. On that basis you'd have to think they'll select only those questions they consider easy, while avoiding any confronting questions that really put them on the line.

I asked them..........

1. You have repeatedly claimed that this event was 'unprecedented'. How can you have forgotten the precedent set by the 1987 crash which was much more brutal than the current crash in terms of the speed of the plunge?
Current crash....down approximately 50% over 12 months
1987 crash.....down 25% in one day and approximately 50% in 3 months

2. You've defended your actions of putting new clients into a plunging market, by stating "You buy stocks when they're cheap".
Given your decades of involvement in the financial markets, can you explain your lack of understanding of the suicidal risks of buying plunging stocks....how could someone of your experience fail to realise that 'cheap' is likely to become much cheaper when the market is sinking rapidly?

Maybe I'll send in another question asking why they waited until the market was down more than 36% before they decided to go to cash. And having made that decision, why they didn't follow through on it.
Then again, maybe I won't waste my time.

 

[Solly]

Hi, This is my first post as I've only just joined this forum.
.....As an ex-empoyee and ex-storm investor (yes.. I've lost it all too) I can say that the above quote is totally untrue. The first Air-Con unit in Townsville did have a oxygen enhancing mechanism.. (it pumped more fresh air from outside instead of re-cycling stale air and was supposed to increase Oxygen content by .5%) It was a supplement much like all the sweets and tea and coffee that were doled out to try and keep people awake through long boring seminars.
There were no oxygen cylinders in Storm offices nor were there hidden microphones or recorders.
.

boomai, there was a reference in an earlier post to an article in the Herald Sun on 21 Jan by Anthony Marx that reported;

"Perth-based financial planner Cameron Paul alleged yesterday that Storm executives.....revealed the bizarre inner workings of Storm's Brisbane office .... "

Mr Paul said he was shown the oxygen tanks used during the seminars and that Mr Cassimatis personally told him about the use of room bugs to listen in on clients."

Here's the article,
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24940447-664,00.html