Storm Financial Group

Solly said:

"Timing query over Storm Financial bonus"

"...documents, obtained by The Sunday Mail, claim Storm Financial Services' owners Emmanuel and Julie Cassimatis knew their company was $51 million in debt when they took the bonus payment."

Read the full story by Ainsley Pavey here;

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,27574,25022697-3102,00.html

Click to expand...

Definitely ammo for shareholders!
The problem with these people is they think they can do another Skase!
Wrong!
Keep it up Solly, I don't want to see the bull**** movie. I'll hear the full story here on ASF.
Thankyou my friend!

swazee said:

Hey Solly, Isi Dalle Court used to work at the old Storm. Essentially his model is the same, perhaps the only difference is that he only doesn't gear pensioners!! (that I know of) His cousin Gus Dalle Court was the operator of the Storm Cairns operation.

I know of one person who went there and they told him 'you have probably heard bad things about us?" They hadn't at that stage but thanked them for being honest and walked straight out the door.

Click to expand...

Ok swazee, thanks for the post. I see that they are associated with the NAB Group with their offerings.

Solly said:

Ok swazee, thanks for the post. I see that they are associated with the NAB Group with their offerings.

Click to expand...

You need someone to go in and check Storm's books. ....NOW!!!!!!

awg said:

In light of the attached quote and article, and the abscence of any negative reply from any of the many Storm clients who have vented on this site.
I am going to assume beyond reasonable doubt that each and every Storm client had the capability to monitor every aspect of their investment online on a daily basis.
It would appear those that got bankrupted failed to that.
What else could explain persons allowing their debt to blow out their housing equity loan.
AFAIC their is no excuse for that laxity.

If I am incorrect, by all means correct me.
"

Click to expand...

Not only did they have the capacity to monitor every aspect of their investment as often as they liked, they also had the capacity to...

* Monitor the stockmarket and the world financial and economic situation as often as they liked (in fact the media did this for them every day)
* Give specific instructions to their investment managers to reduce their exposure as the situation became increasingly risky.
* Follow up on those instructions to ensure they were carried out promptly.

Anyone who failed to do any of the above was clearly 'asleep at the wheel'......a deadly mistake when you've got investment money on the line - particularly geared investment money.
Had they kept their fingers on the pulse they could have removed themselves from harms way long before their accounts got anywhere near margin call.

What's been interesting about this thread has been the contrast in attitudes among the Storm victims. Some - perhaps the majority - have been honest in facing up to their part of the responsibility for what happened. Some have admitted they went in with their eyes open. Some have admitted they were naive. Some have admitted their mistake in placing complete trust in their advisers. Some have admitted that they should have been more decisive by insisting that their instructions were carried out.

Others have shown a distinct reluctance to accept any responsibility, and have attempted to push all the blame on to someone else.

What's also been interesting is the reaction of a small number of Storm victims and at least one of their supporters. Those of us who have attempted to have a balanced discussion on this matter have been subjected to all manner of insults, such as........

* Storm plants and bank trolls.
* No better than the scum-sucking Cassamitisis.
* Tyre kickers and bottom feeders
* The 'pits'
* Sticking the boot in

Among other things....suffice to say that we've copped a tirade of abuse, insults and aggression for doing nothing more than telling the story how it is. Ahh well.......

The Sunday Mail reports that Andrew Symonds may have lost more than $1 million and Wally Fullerton Smith says he has lost everything...

The full story by Nick Leys and Michael Westlake is here;

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25024254-952,00.html

bunyip said:

Not only did they have the capacity to monitor every aspect of their investment as often as they liked, they also had the capacity to...

* Monitor the stockmarket and the world financial and economic situation as often as they liked (in fact the media did this for them every day)
* Give specific instructions to their investment managers to reduce their exposure as the situation became increasingly risky.
* Follow up on those instructions to ensure they were carried out promptly.

Anyone who failed to do any of the above was clearly 'asleep at the wheel'......a deadly mistake when you've got investment money on the line - particularly geared investment money.
Had they kept their fingers on the pulse they could have removed themselves from harms way long before their accounts got anywhere near margin call.

Click to expand...

So don't trust anyone apart from yourself with your money.
I think many investors would "now" know this! If they didn't before!

bunyip said:

* Storm plants and bank trolls.
* No better than the scum-sucking Cassamitisis.
* Tyre kickers and bottom feeders
* The 'pits'
* Sticking the boot in

Click to expand...

* No better than the scum-sucking Cassamitisis.
* Tyre kickers and bottom feeders

To take advantage of someone in distress. Property sellers offered only a portion of what a property (is/was) worth. Not nice at all. However as pointed out it's not just Townsville!
The bitterness is understood by some.
But business is business.
As for the people who didn't have a nice property on the market when the **** hit the fan it is hard to understand the actual feeling now insulting some can be.

The money is gone. Regardless of being a tax payer the government can not and will not reimburse, not even part. It would not be fair if it did and where would it end? Its not the banks fault either. Banks have depositors money at risk. That's the depositor who gets laughable returns on their money.

It was Storm's fault but we can see why people ask the simple questions to storm investors after the fact. Ofcoarse those questions, would be asked by yourself without the insight from strangers.

Good luck,
I sorry, ... but I wouldn't be holding my breath of getting just a little or anything back.

Solly said:

The Sunday Mail reports that Andrew Symonds may have lost more than $1 million and Wally Fullerton Smith says he has lost everything...

The full story by Nick Leys and Michael Westlake is here;

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25024254-952,00.html

Click to expand...

Well that just about says it all......Wally Fullerton-Smith, a qualified financial planner, gets wiped off the slate by following his own investment advice!

It seriously questions Cary Ramm's views implying that financial planners are indispensable, and that we'd be fools to follow our own advice.
Carey also seems to place great importance on having a string of qualifications to your name, and years of experience across a broad spectrum of investment areas, if you're to have any hope of safely negotiating what he apparently sees as the minefield of personal investment.

Well Carey, I disagreed with you back then and I'll repeat that disagreement now....professional qualifications are a poor substitute for common sense.....I'll back common sense any day.
I reckon Wally Fullerton-Smith probably agrees with me.

MR. said:

Property sellers offered only a portion of what a property (is/was) worth.

Click to expand...

A lesson then for all those who think they can demand what they think an asset is worth... it's only worth what someone else is prepared to pay.... lots of others are losing jobs etc and money isn't flowing and those that have been frugal and wondering when all the

I don't see someone as purchasing the asset off another as anything more then a business transaction. If a buyer of RIO shares now buys off someone who paid $130, how do you view the buyer, as taking advantage ?

I take the contrary view to you, surely the person buying the asset should perhaps be seen as a lifeline ? After all they need a buyer and in these harder times, buyers aren't that plentiful.

MR. said:

But business is business.

Click to expand...

Amen.

bunyip said:

Not only did they have the capacity to monitor every aspect of their investment as often as they liked, they also had the capacity to...

* Monitor the stockmarket and the world financial and economic situation as often as they liked (in fact the media did this for them every day)
* Give specific instructions to their investment managers to reduce their exposure as the situation became increasingly risky.
* Follow up on those instructions to ensure they were carried out promptly.

Anyone who failed to do any of the above was clearly 'asleep at the wheel'......a deadly mistake when you've got investment money on the line - particularly geared investment money.
Had they kept their fingers on the pulse they could have removed themselves from harms way long before their accounts got anywhere near margin call.

What's been interesting about this thread has been the contrast in attitudes among the Storm victims. Some - perhaps the majority - have been honest in facing up to their part of the responsibility for what happened. Some have admitted they went in with their eyes open. Some have admitted they were naive. Some have admitted their mistake in placing complete trust in their advisers. Some have admitted that they should have been more decisive by insisting that their instructions were carried out.

Others have shown a distinct reluctance to accept any responsibility, and have attempted to push all the blame on to someone else.

What's also been interesting is the reaction of a small number of Storm victims and at least one of their supporters. Those of us who have attempted to have a balanced discussion on this matter have been subjected to all manner of insults, such as........

* Storm plants and bank trolls.
* No better than the scum-sucking Cassamitisis.
* Tyre kickers and bottom feeders
* The 'pits'
* Sticking the boot in

Among other things....suffice to say that we've copped a tirade of abuse, insults and aggression for doing nothing more than telling the story how it is. Ahh well.......

Click to expand...

Bunyip, Top post, this is all most the same as the tax avoidance scheme that was going around a few years ago, We had a friend that lost over $400 in that, they all got together and set up a fighting fund to take on the tax office, they lost again. When it is too good to be true, it is, and ALL SALES people will ALWAYS SELL YOU, WHAT GIVES THEM THE BIGGEST COMMISSION.

Trevor_S said:

A lesson then for all those who think they can demand what they think an asset is worth... it's only worth what someone else is prepared to pay.... lots of others are losing jobs etc and money isn't flowing and those that have been frugal and wondering when all the

I don't see someone as purchasing the asset off another as anything more then a business transaction. If a buyer of RIO shares now buys off someone who paid $130, how do you view the buyer, as taking advantage ?

I take the contrary view to you, surely the person buying the asset should perhaps be seen as a lifeline ? After all they need a buyer and in these harder times, buyers aren't that plentiful.



Amen.

Click to expand...

Trevor

That's a good point about bargain hunters picking up shares at discounted prices after they've had a big fall. Nothing immoral about that....it's just business. When buying anything, you buy as low as you can.

Matter of fact I'd be surprised if our friend Mash hasn't done exactly the same thing herself with shares on various occasions.
No point asking her though......she avoids those confronting questions.

Let us not forget the many good Australian men and women in their 60's and 70's forced to go back to work to try and extricate themselves from this debacle.

The majority of them have been self funded retirees who wouldn't even know where a centrelink office was situated.

Financial Planners have to take the blame for their circumstances.

The industry is a joke.

If you don't believe me click on this thread on what the exams are like to become a Financial Planner.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=395356&postcount=95

gg

bunyip said:

Well that just about says it all......Wally Fullerton-Smith, a qualified financial planner, gets wiped off the slate by following his own investment advice!

It seriously questions Cary Ramm's views implying that financial planners are indispensable, and that we'd be fools to follow our own advice.
Carey also seems to place great importance on having a string of qualifications to your name, and years of experience across a broad spectrum of investment areas, if you're to have any hope of safely negotiating what he apparently sees as the minefield of personal investment.

Well Carey, I disagreed with you back then and I'll repeat that disagreement now....professional qualifications are a poor substitute for common sense.....I'll back common sense any day.
I reckon Wally Fullerton-Smith probably agrees with me.

Click to expand...

I read this article in today's Sunday Mail in disbelief. How could a so called professional financial planner not have seen what was happening??

Moreover, from the same paper:

Meanwhile, three of the former Storm Financial advisers wiped out by the collapse of the company were picked up last week by Sunshine Coast-based Infocus Money Management.
Infocus founder Darren Steinhardt employer former Storm advisers Bob Jones from Storm's Redcliffe office, Trevor Benson from Nundah, and Wally Fullerton-Smith - who sold his Gold Coast business to Storm two years ago - after "extensive" checks, satisfied they were victims of the Storm machine.

Click to expand...

Victims? Perhaps this is a description that can be applied to Storm's uninformed clients, but for a professional financial planner to be considered a victim beggars belief.

Julia said:

I read this article in today's Sunday Mail in disbelief. How could a so called professional financial planner not have seen what was happening??

Moreover, from the same paper:


Victims? Perhaps this is a description that can be applied to Storm's uninformed clients, but for a professional financial planner to be considered a victim beggars belief.

Click to expand...

Begs the question, What did they know or believe with regards to Storms agreements with the Bank that they too would put themselves in such a position? They do know better!

Garpal Gumnut said:

Let us not forget the many good Australian men and women in their 60's and 70's forced to go back to work to try and extricate themselves from this debacle.

The majority of them have been self funded retirees who wouldn't even know where a centrelink office was situated.

Financial Planners have to take the blame for their circumstances.

The industry is a joke.

If you don't believe me click on this thread on what the exams are like to become a Financial Planner.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=395356&postcount=95

gg

Click to expand...

gg, I don't know if the industry is a complete joke but it sure has a few clowns in it as evidenced by the recent events. I use a FP to assist me in certain strategies. I have diverse interests and I do not rely solely on the income stream of my investments to sustain me. I don't mind paying for advice, I pay for laywers, counsels, accountants, etc to assist me with my lifestyle.

These people are far smarter than me in their areas of expertise. I'm not interested in evasion or avoidance or infringing Part IVa of the tax act or off shore havens, double blind trusts, etc. I don't mind paying my FP for qualified advice, it spreads the wealth around, he's got a family as well to support. But I never agree to proceed with a strategy unless I'm 100% confident that it is suitable for my circumstance and I'm totally responsible for green lighting it.

There's absolutely no point being the richest man in the "village", the villagers resent you and it leaves you lonely and hollow. I'm only a recent visitor to this forum and really only started commenting after friends of friends were slightly impacted by the Storm issue and then I found others impacted to a much larger extent. I'll probably disappear from here soon after it all starts to settles down. I usually like to move on after a while, I like change, I'm on a "sabbatical" at the moment and will soon have other interests to concentrate on but have enjoyed the commentaries here.

I don't know if ASIC's RG 146 has ever been discussed here, but if you have some spare time give it a read

Here's an extract of some sections.

RG 146.1 We have set minimum standards for the training of advisers. By setting and
enforcing these training standards, we aim to:
(a) protect consumers of financial advice by ensuring that those who
provide the advice are competent to do so. Retail clients generally do
not have the resources or expertise to assess whether their adviser has
an appropriate level of competence to provide financial advice. It is
important for ASIC to set training standards that ensure a level of
competence;
(b) help licensees comply with their legal obligations to ensure that they
and their representatives are adequately trained and competent to
provide the services covered by their AFS licence. Under the
Corporations Act, licensees must adequately train and supervise their
representatives, and must themselves be competent; and
(c) help training and education providers and professional and industry
associations understand our regulatory requirements, so that they can
develop appropriate training courses and standards.
© Australian Securities and Investments Commission August 2008 used with permission

The average Aussie takes you at face value, so anything that attempts to help to protect consumers by ensuring that those who provide advice are competent can't be a bad thing. Nothing's perfect but at least it's an aim covered by legislation. The people I know who have come unstuck with Storm realise that they had some responsibility for the outcome. Let's face it we've all made less than positive decisions for ourselves in life, as long as they don't turn out fatal, there's always an avenue to seek a remedy and recover to an acceptable extent.
Riches and wealth doesn't always mean mega amounts of fiat money....

January 20, 2009 11:00pm
FAILED investment group Storm Financial allegedly pumped oxygen on 300 or more clients to raise levels of enthusiasm during extended seminars.
The Queensland company, which collapsed this month, also purportedly used listening devices to monitor conversations in private rooms used for one-on-one consultations with prospective investors.

Perth-based financial planner Cameron Paul alleged yesterday that Storm executives, including founder Emmanuel Cassimatis, proudly revealed the bizarre inner workings of the company's Brisbane office about two years ago.

Mr Paul said he was shown the oxygen tanks used during the seminars and Mr Cassimatis personally told him about the use of bugs to listen in on clients.

Mr Paul, a director of Momentum Planning, had been approached by Storm to form a joint venture partnership to give the then fast-growing Townsville-based company a foothold in Western Australia.

But Mr Paul said the two firms never merged because he found Storm's business practices and client ethics troubling, likening it to a cult.

"We were absolutely shocked," Mr Paul said.

Mr Cassimatis did not return calls yesterday.


I knew they were slick but this is truely unconscionable......

bunyip said:

Not only did they have the capacity to monitor every aspect of their investment as often as they liked, they also had the capacity to...

* Monitor the stockmarket and the world financial and economic situation as often as they liked (in fact the media did this for them every day)
* Give specific instructions to their investment managers to reduce their exposure as the situation became increasingly risky.
* Follow up on those instructions to ensure they were carried out promptly.

Anyone who failed to do any of the above was clearly 'asleep at the wheel'......a deadly mistake when you've got investment money on the line - particularly geared investment money.
Had they kept their fingers on the pulse they could have removed themselves from harms way long before their accounts got anywhere near margin call.

What's been interesting about this thread has been the contrast in attitudes among the Storm victims. Some - perhaps the majority - have been honest in facing up to their part of the responsibility for what happened. Some have admitted they went in with their eyes open. Some have admitted they were naive. Some have admitted their mistake in placing complete trust in their advisers. Some have admitted that they should have been more decisive by insisting that their instructions were carried out.

Others have shown a distinct reluctance to accept any responsibility, and have attempted to push all the blame on to someone else.

What's also been interesting is the reaction of a small number of Storm victims and at least one of their supporters. Those of us who have attempted to have a balanced discussion on this matter have been subjected to all manner of insults, such as........

* Storm plants and bank trolls.
* No better than the scum-sucking Cassamitisis.
* Tyre kickers and bottom feeders
* The 'pits'
* Sticking the boot in

Among other things....suffice to say that we've copped a tirade of abuse, insults and aggression for doing nothing more than telling the story how it is. Ahh well.......

Click to expand...

A while ago you told/advised me to get on with life and get over this. Well take some of your own medicine and stop "stirring the pot" You and your other experts/naysayers/fingerpointers ect.. on here hide behind a computer facade of self endorsed judgement of all posters before you and you just can't wait to chew up anyone that doesn't live up to your self made standards , obvisouly with little else to do..other than to see who bites . Well myself and i'm sure others are growing tired of your game.As someone else quoted "well it's been interesting" Well i'm also sick of bittin' and tired of fightin' I hope your life continues to be one never ending success story(yeah i bet)

Julia said:

I read this article in today's Sunday Mail in disbelief. How could a so called professional financial planner not have seen what was happening??

Moreover, from the same paper:


Victims? Perhaps this is a description that can be applied to Storm's uninformed clients, but for a professional financial planner to be considered a victim beggars belief.

Click to expand...

Pindibog said:

Begs the question, What did they know or believe with regards to Storms agreements with the Bank that they too would put themselves in such a position? They do know better!

Click to expand...

Most financial planners are imo no more than salespeople. Most of them truly don't understand the risks involved with some of the financial packages they sell. Like most salespeople they are to an extent brainwashed about the products they sell and are driven by the commissions/bonuses they receive for selling these products.

You must remember we have just been through one of the best bull runs ever as well as a strong period of economic growth (which we now know was funded on the back of dodgy economic practices & excessive leverage) and most of these FP's wouldn't have seen a true stockmarket crash and economic recession on the level that we are now seeing. My bet is if you had asked them 2-3 years ago if what we are seeing now was possible they would of all said no!
Same as all the people in the US selling subprime loans and CDO's they did not understand what they were selling and wouldn't have thought it could end like it has.

These FP's would have seen the returns some of the clients were getting and jumped in not wanting to miss out. The fact is they, like thier clients did not understand the risks involved and as a consequence are caught up in the cr@p as well.

I started reading this thread some weeks ago in the hope of picking up some useful advice. I am not sure what.

We already know that we were stupid and naive and that "something that seems to be too good to be true usually is". We also know that what was always a pretty meagre nest egg at best is now a non-existent one. It is pointless wasting any energy getting upset or angry.

We were directed to Storm by our then financial adviser in 2006 and stupidly let them make our decisions. No matter how many times we said we were uncomfortable with the amount of debt we had (with no assets) we were always talked out of it. Yes, we feel pretty weak and silly about that too.

Even though we phoned and emailed, they stopped communicating with us in December and left MacQuarie Bank to chase up the loan which was quickly turning in to a negative due to the interest. We now have an argument with the bank as they did not action a letter emailed prior to Xmas asking that the loan was paid out by our cashed up share portfolio CMT until January 6th.

We are trying to be proactive, although we are starting from a pretty weak base. No matter how many skills you have, trying to get employment at 65 in a shrinking job market is not easy.

We really do need some advice on what to do. No financial planner is going to be interested in us as we really have nothing left to invest. I guess we are down to survival now. What are other people doing? On the bright side we are not either flooded out nor surrounded by bushfires!!!

Ijustnewit said:

A while ago you told/advised me to get on with life and get over this. Well take some of your own medicine and stop "stirring the pot" You and your other experts/naysayers/fingerpointers ect.. on here hide behind a computer facade of self endorsed judgement of all posters before you and you just can't wait to chew up anyone that doesn't live up to your self made standards , obvisouly with little else to do..other than to see who bites . Well myself and i'm sure others are growing tired of your game.As someone else quoted "well it's been interesting" Well i'm also sick of bittin' and tired of fightin' I hope your life continues to be one never ending success story(yeah i bet)

Click to expand...

I've never claimed my life is a never-ending success story. I've had my successes but I've taken some hits as well. Any time I took a hit I admitted my part of the responsibility for it, picked up whatever pieces I could, and moved on.

Yes, I have better things to do than post on this forum, and most of the time I'm out doing them. This forum is nothing more than a diversion for me - a bit of a social club if you like where I get to talk to other posters about subjects of mutual interest.
If you check out my average daily number of posts you'll see that I'm a low volume poster on here.

Yes, I told you to get on with your life and get over this. And I'll repeat that advice now. If you are, as you say, 'sick of bitin' and tired of fightin', then stop doing it!
Instead of wasting your mental energy by having a lash at me, put your energy instead into mapping out your future. It may not be quite as bad as you think.
Depending on your age, at worst you could be living in rented accommodation on the pension. Unpalatable though that may sound, you'll have enough food to eat, a secure place to live, and your health care needs will be catered for.
I know a handful of people in this situation....they live frugally but nevertheless quite happily, with friends, social and recreational activities.
At best - and again depending on your age - you'll recover from this and still end up living a pretty good life.

But you won't achieve any of this is you waste your time trolling through this forum and swinging punches at people like me.
Direct your anger and your mental energy towards more productive pursuits. It's up to you.

10 YRS ago I went through a divorce like most others and lost about $1m after working to build up assets, now the whole World is going through a divorce and a lot will end up like Storm victims due to the down turn, so a lot of people who like to think they are high flyers will be brought to their knees.
All up can do is work out what you have and look at other income producing avenues other than trying to get a job.
I have my hopes pinned on Gold.