Storm Financial Group

[Harleyquin]

We all want to be in the best financial position possible in our retirement. Investors on ASF are the same, you are all trying to get the best investments possible. I don't believe that's greed, I believe that it's commonsense. Who wants to find themselves in the poorhouse in retirement? Nobody.

When we reached out for help from storm, that's all we were doing, wanting help to get in the best financial position possible. Instead we've been left physically, mentally and financially drained, with nothing to look forward to. If we were younger and working it might be possible to get over this hump, but for those of us of retirement age, it's too late.

The storm strategy has often been referred to as 'criminal' on this forum yet those same forum members are happy to defend the banks who funded this criminal advice. I fail to understand this. One can only assume that those who defend the loudest have the largest cache of bank shares.

 

[pilots]

Still taking everything out of context I see Bunyip. Still have incorrect facts. The fact is that I support that very wrong doings were going on & that you & I would never know true facts about. (perhaps not ALL to do with storm) You still keep arguing on here your point. So valuable is your information YOU SHOULD BE AN ADVISER!

Yes I thanked Storm for being up front & honest with us & telling us that the carpet was ripped from under them & all information & access was ceased to clients because ASIC put a legal hold on all. I have an understanding of the laws they were GAGGED under. But you would know that Bunyip as you know exactly what happened.
They were up front & honest with me. So don't split hairs in something that I cannot write a novel here to explain. Of course I was not happy with what had happened back then to all investors. I just was not going to rub salt into the wounds like you were.

That same governing body ASIC APPROVED this financial institute in fact it was highly recommended financial Planning company by financial planners, the banks, & all with university degrees. Yes of course Bunyip you know that's not true & will come back at we are idiots, greedy, etc We have heard all your facts before. Have you ever heard of compassion? I was trying to show my support for the investors that know they are not greedy & just simply seeking professional advise.

My comment of milk purchase etc is in reference to all having different advice & accountability & that Holden is not going to recommend Ford etc.

If I hire an qualified electrician who is licensed by a Governing body & trade certified at my house & he/she electrocutes someone, or the house burns down. He/she is held accountable for it. I do not go & get another electrician to make sure he did his job properly before I turn the power on. Do I Bunyip? But I'm sure you will have a negative reply comment. There are governing bodies that assure me the electrician is qualified. Just like with Storm. But hey that would be your fault hey Bunyip.

I have been investing for years & with an adviser. My portfolio was now to large for me to look after. So I handed the reins over to a ASIC approved professional Financial service. Like other clients did.
We are all put in the same basket by the forum. Some of us are not retired, & not on a pension, & did not invest our super, or unable to pay our margins etc.

Storm factored margins into the model. Most of us had $50 - $100,000 in offset accounts to account for this crisis. You put all clients in the one group. Miss informed Bunyip. I think so.

The banks were to call margins its on the documents that the BANKS will make the call. They didn't call anyone. They just sold down. How would you like it if someone took your house when you have not missed a payment? Oh that's right Investing in a home is ok? But not shares. The banks also increased our LVR to ensure we lost more money without permission or knowledge to any clients.

I cant believe you would take my quotes out of context that I am happy with the advice. Storm investors had already lost everything & people like you Bunyip have no compassion at all. You just keep arguing & dissing all STORM CLIENTS. You have been very ill informed & I feel for you.

Lets clear the air some more. They paid for our holidays Oh that was another false one hey Bunyip. Storm clients could if they wanted to PAY FOR THEIR OWN holiday & yes the toilets were gold. If you think for a minute that a ****ter would make me invest you are clearly mistaken.

These comments above are to imply to all other forum members that any idiot could see it was a scam etc & how we must be fooled by a gold toilet. Just like your comment here Bunyip is only to antagonize. If it was not why would you be bringing it up after 4 years?

I have no doubt I will get another back lashing or more rubbish from you to promote Debate rather than a discussion on this forum wont I Bunyip? In fact many forum members are tired of your JERK attitude.
Let it go Bunyip it was 4 years ago. Find a new hobby rather than bullying!

The fact that you don't want to have open minded discussions on a forum & know everything tells me you have a hidden agenda? I can't see any good come from what you are doing on here & it couldn't be for any other reason apart from....You only post comments to antagonize storm investors to cause forum fights. Well this speaks volumes of the type of person you are Bunyip.

Oh yeah & the courts. Not Bunyip but the Courts also agree with the wrong doing by the banks to the storm investors. Could it be sour grapes Bunyip? Could you be wrong? For just once?

See courts look at the facts Bunyip & the fact is WRONG DOINGS by banks...I rest my case!!!!

VOTE! 1 BUNYIP He thinks he's the SMARTEST FINANCIAL ADVISER AROUND!

Well he did NOT invest in storm, that make him a lot smarter than you.

 

[pilots]

We all want to be in the best financial position possible in our retirement. Investors on ASF are the same, you are all trying to get the best investments possible. I don't believe that's greed, I believe that it's commonsense. Who wants to find themselves in the poorhouse in retirement? Nobody.

When we reached out for help from storm, that's all we were doing, wanting help to get in the best financial position possible. Instead we've been left physically, mentally and financially drained, with nothing to look forward to. If we were younger and working it might be possible to get over this hump, but for those of us of retirement age, it's too late.

The storm strategy has often been referred to as 'criminal' on this forum yet those same forum members are happy to defend the banks who funded this criminal advice. I fail to understand this. One can only assume that those who defend the loudest have the largest cache of bank shares.

You say you don't believe in greed, then why did you invest in storm? You say we reached out for help from storm, did you reach out to any other financial mobs, when storm was in full swing you could find many financial people telling you this is going to end bad, sorry for all of them who lost, but you did NOT have to invest in storm, you can NOT blame the banks for you loss, if you was to buy a house on a street corner and later the roads dept want to take some of your land your house value will drop, sure you will get some compo from the roads dept, but when you sell you will not get all your money back, now is that the banks fault??.

 

[bunyip]

We all want to be in the best financial position possible in our retirement. Investors on ASF are the same, you are all trying to get the best investments possible. I don't believe that's greed, I believe that it's commonsense. Who wants to find themselves in the poorhouse in retirement? Nobody.

When we reached out for help from storm, that's all we were doing, wanting help to get in the best financial position possible. Instead we've been left physically, mentally and financially drained, with nothing to look forward to. If we were younger and working it might be possible to get over this hump, but for those of us of retirement age, it's too late.

The storm strategy has often been referred to as 'criminal' on this forum yet those same forum members are happy to defend the banks who funded this criminal advice. I fail to understand this. One can only assume that those who defend the loudest have the largest cache of bank shares.

These same people who you think are ‘defending’ the banks have on many occasions stated clearly that they support appropriate penalities being imposed on the banks IF a court of law proves the banks guilty of doing anything illegal.

However, lending money for investment is not illegal, not even if the investor intends to take serious risks with the money.
Let’s say you get a bank loan to buy an investment property in a one-industry town like like a coal town. It’s a risky investment because a downturn in the coal industry could cause mine closures resulting in people leaving town, and you as an investor facing plummeting property values and shrinking rental returns. Worse still, no rental income at all because you can’t find a tenant for your house. So the bank forecloses on your rental property when you can’t meet your loan commitments, and if the sale of that property gives the bank insufficient money to recoup what you owe them, then they may foreclose on other property that you’ve given them a mortgage over. Like your family home, for example.

Now seriously HQ, do you think the bank has done anything illegal here? It was up to you, the investor, to conduct risk assessment before getting a loan and buying the property. The bank has no responsibility to evaluate your proposed investment for you and advise you of the negatives and positives. If you ask a bank for investment advice then they’ll happily provide it by referring you to one of their investment advisers. But my understanding is that you approached Storm for investment advice, and then you approached the bank for a loan, not for investment advice.

Here’s a couple more examples for you to think about.
You’re from a cane-farming area, therefore you’d be well aware of the ups and downs in the sugar industry. Someone gets bank finance to buy a cane farm, the sugar price falls severely, and he loses the farm because he can’t meet his loan commitments.
Is it the banks fault? It’s not the bank who wiped him out, it’s the downturn in the sugar industry combined with too much debt to enable him to ride out the slump.

Someone gets a bank loan to buy a rental house on a flood plain, the house get severely damaged in a flood, no rental income for a prolonged period while the house is being rebuilt. Investor gets into financial difficulty as a result. Bank forecloses.
Nobody can reasonably say it’s all the banks fault. The investor should have evaluated the situation properly, considered the risks more carefully.

HQ – it’s understandable that you’re upset at suddenly finding yourself in a difficult financial situation at an age when you’d like to be enjoying a comfortable retirement. But don’t destroy yourself with resentment and bitterness towards the banks for doing what you asked them to do, which was to lend you money to invest in the stock market. You weren’t wiped out by the banks, you were wiped out by a combination of bad advice from Storm, a stock market collapse, and too much gearing.

 

[Mash]

Really...all you non stormers think the banks were not the biggest wankers on the block.. yep Mannie and Julie brought the lambs to the slaughter ( I want them to hang high but ASIC still have no idea how to go about that)... but the banks totally orchestrated what they were doing and ASIC were happy to back them while they were flying high... we looked at other planners before signing up and our "original" plan was basically what storm was offering but the long term fee calculations was what sucked us in, high up front but less in the long run (we were looking at 15-20 years).The basic plan was our money geared to a maximum of 50% ... it was the devil in the detail and the "wankers" willing to bend the rules that totally screwed us over. The "wankers" deciding to bend/break their own "code of conduct" to do whatever Storm wanted to get their "business".... all are crims and all deserve to be in jail...but that won't happen because the bankers screw the client and then make the parliamentarians bend over further to take whatever they give in whatever way they want... Believe what you want but knowing now what I do this country is run by the banks, not the government and not the people but the banks. Sad but true.

 

[pilots]

Really...all you non stormers think the banks were not the biggest wankers on the block.. yep Mannie and Julie brought the lambs to the slaughter ( I want them to hang high but ASIC still have no idea how to go about that)... but the banks totally orchestrated what they were doing and ASIC were happy to back them while they were flying high... we looked at other planners before signing up and our "original" plan was basically what storm was offering but the long term fee calculations was what sucked us in, high up front but less in the long run (we were looking at 15-20 years).The basic plan was our money geared to a maximum of 50% ... it was the devil in the detail and the "wankers" willing to bend the rules that totally screwed us over. The "wankers" deciding to bend/break their own "code of conduct" to do whatever Storm wanted to get their "business".... all are crims and all deserve to be in jail...but that won't happen because the bankers screw the client and then make the parliamentarians bend over further to take whatever they give in whatever way they want... Believe what you want but knowing now what I do this country is run by the banks, not the government and not the people but the banks. Sad but true.

Mash, you did not have to invest with storm, you could have gone to many others who are still going today, if it's to good to be true, you know the rest. We was told about storm long ago, only needed ONE meeting to see it was set up to suck in the wankers.

 

[bunyip]

Really...all you non stormers think the banks were not the biggest wankers on the block.. yep Mannie and Julie brought the lambs to the slaughter ( I want them to hang high but ASIC still have no idea how to go about that)... but the banks totally orchestrated what they were doing and ASIC were happy to back them while they were flying high... we looked at other planners before signing up and our "original" plan was basically what storm was offering but the long term fee calculations was what sucked us in, high up front but less in the long run (we were looking at 15-20 years).The basic plan was our money geared to a maximum of 50% ... it was the devil in the detail and the "wankers" willing to bend the rules that totally screwed us over. The "wankers" deciding to bend/break their own "code of conduct" to do whatever Storm wanted to get their "business".... all are crims and all deserve to be in jail...but that won't happen because the bankers screw the client and then make the parliamentarians bend over further to take whatever they give in whatever way they want... Believe what you want but knowing now what I do this country is run by the banks, not the government and not the people but the banks. Sad but true.

Like I’ve always said, if a court of law proves the banks acted illegally, then I support you in condemning their illegal actions and wanting them to be penalized accordingly.
But I don’t support the idea that lending you money to invest in the stock market was illegal or immoral just because there was considerable risk of loss to investors.

My bush contacts tell me that in the last 18 months or so the banks have foreclosed on a number of western QLD cattle properties after the owners got into financial difficulties due to severe drought and the slump in cattle prices.
Would it be fair and reasonable to say that the banks should not have financed these graziers because of the considerable risk in agriculture? Of course not. Nobody would ever get finance for any business investment if the banks refused to lend because there was risk involved.

If after lending you the money the banks bent the rules or broke their own code of conduct as you claim, and they did so illegally, then by all means go after them with legal action. If you’ve already done that but haven’t got the result you’re looking for, then either keep after them or else cut your losses and walk away. Your choice.

But remember this. You chose to go to Storm for investment advice, chose to take their advice and act upon it, chose to ask the banks to help you do it by granting you loans. Then you chose to use that money to invest heavily in the market despite two very clear warnings that you should proceed with caution rather than go charging in boots and all.
The first of these warnings was 20 years earlier when the 1987 stock market crash showed just how extremely risky it can be to sink your money into the market, let alone mortgage your home to borrow a pile of money to sink into the market as well.
The second warning was when Storm clearly stated in their Statement Of Advice that stock market investment is risky.
Both of these warnings gave you good reason to turn your back on Storm’s advice and walk away.

 

[Harleyquin]

Totally agree Mash. I read your post Pilots and thought, this person has no idea what he/ she is talking about. By this stage we all know that Bunyip is only out to protect his horde of bank shares at any cost.

There were people within the banks who broke all their own rules, as Mash so rightly stated, and the banks themselves need to acknowledge the fact. However they won't. This is all about greed on the part of storm, the banks and the shareholders. A lot of ex stormies own bank shares too and we don't want the banks to go out of business, we only want them to right their wrongs. Admit and pay for their mistakes, move on and make sure it never happens again.

If ASIC were doing the job they are paid for it would never have happened in the first place.

 

[bunyip]

By this stage we all know that Bunyip is only out to protect his horde of bank shares at any cost.

HQ
Owners of shares in the major banks don’t have and never have had any reason to fear any ruling in regard to payouts to Storm clients.
As I explained to you more than a year ago, the major banks make thousands of millions of dollars in half yearly profits. If between them they were forced to refund every single dollar lost by Storm investors, it would make barely a blip in their share price, and any blip would be temporary only.

If ASIC were doing the job they are paid for it would never have happened in the first place.

I agree – ASIC failed as they so often do.
And as Mash pointed out they're continuing to fail.

And it wouldn’t have happened if Storm were doing their job either.

And it wouldn’t have happened if investors had learnt the lessons from the 1987 market crash. Or if they’d have smelt a rat, as they should have done, when Storm on the one hand told them stock market investment is risky, then on the other hand encouraged them to jump into this risky investmet boots and all by mortgaging homes and shoving all their money plus a pile of borrowed money into the market.

And it wouldn’t have happened if Storm investors throughout their lives had availed themselves of the many free opportunities to get some basic education in finance and investment.

A lot of people let you down – no doubt about it.
And I agree that they should be brought to justice if they broke any laws in the process.
But you let yourselves down too. I’d like to see you at least being honest enough to acknowledge that, instead of constantly pointing the finger while attempting to absolve yourself off all responsibility for your actions and their consequences.

 

[Harleyquin]

Bunyip I agree that storm weren't doing their job and the major banks make billions, not millions. I also know that they could re emberse all stormies and it wouldn't cause a ripple. Where you are wrong is that storm couldn't do this by themselves, but then you know that already, even if you decide not to admit it.

I have never 'just blamed the banks for this'. The blame is multi faceted and I blame myself for being so trusting that those who should know. I'm also far more aware now of what not to do. Had we had a computer and internet access prior to joining storm it would have been easier to do some research.

 

[pilots]

Bunyip I agree that storm weren't doing their job and the major banks make billions, not millions. I also know that they could re emberse all stormies and it wouldn't cause a ripple. Where you are wrong is that storm couldn't do this by themselves, but then you know that already, even if you decide not to admit it.

I have never 'just blamed the banks for this'. The blame is multi faceted and I blame myself for being so trusting that those who should know. I'm also far more aware now of what not to do. Had we had a computer and internet access prior to joining storm it would have been easier to do some research.

I blame myself for being so trusting, BINGO!!!!!!, we all so looked at storm, it took only one meeting to know this is TOO good to be true, thank god we ran.

 

[Judd]

......... Had we had a computer and internet access prior to joining storm it would have been easier to do some research.(

$200-$300 spent at any bookstore or borrowed from a public library. Sensible Share Investing, Austin Donnelly 1995 $15.95. Research done and dusted.

 

[Harleyquin]

In hindsight Judd I know you're right, isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. Pilots if you knew it was too good to be true on the first visit then that's great, we didn't think it was too good to be true, we thought we were being sensible seeking advice.

 

[bunyip]

Bunyip I agree that storm weren't doing their job and the major banks make billions, not millions. I also know that they could re emberse all stormies and it wouldn't cause a ripple.(

Yes but why should they reimburse you for your losses if they were not the cause of them? You might argue that the banks caused some of your losses, and perhaps you’re right. But no logical or rational person would suggest that the banks caused all your losses. Most of your losses were caused by you having a load of borrowed money in the market when the market crashed. And for that you can thank Storm for talking you into such a high risk venture, and yourself for being so trusting that you accepted their advice despite 1987 having showed you the extreme risk of investing heavily in the market, particularly with loans that were secured by mortgaging your home.
As a point of interest, HQ, what percentage of your losses do you think should be reimbursed to you by the bank/s that provided your finance?

Where you are wrong is that storm couldn't do this by themselves, but then you know that already, even if you decide not to admit it.(

Storm needed clients so they could milk them for 7% of money invested, and they needed bank finance for those clients. Without either of them Storm would have been unable to operate.

I have never 'just blamed the banks for this'. (

No, but you and Frank and a couple of others have denied that you’re in any way responsible for what happened to you. And that’s absurd, give that you readily admit you were too trusting. Too trusting is what caused you to take the crazy risks that largely brought you undone.

On the subject of trust – I’ve always wondered why you were so trusting of Storm. Yes, I know they were a professional financial planning firm. But lots of firms have professional qualifications in their field, nevertheless I’m sure you’ve come across many over the years who were less than honest or competent. Was every real estate agent you ever dealt with honest and trustworthy? I doubt it. How about the hundreds of retailers you’ve dealt with – surely you must have come across some shonky ones despite their belonging to a professional body with clearly stated ethical guidelines and codes of conduct.
How about the dentists, doctors, lawyers, accountants, electricians, builders and plumbers you’ve dealt with, and a few dozen other professionals I could name? They were all competent and honest and trustworthy, were they, every single one of them? I very much doubt it.
Your life experiences over the years surely would have taught you not to take people at face value and just trust them blindly, no matter what their occupation or professional qualifications. Why then were you so trusting of Storm?

Had we had a computer and internet access prior to joining storm it would have been easier to do some research.

Sure, a computer would have helped. But there are lots of ways to learn the basics of investment and finance without owning a computer. The ‘investment and finance’ sections of bookshops contain many inexpensive and useful books.
Over the years I’ve been to numerous workshops and presentations on investment-related subjects. These were all free and in most cases were advertised in the local paper or on radio or TV. Sometimes they were put on by shonks wanting me to part with big money for their course, sometimes they were put on by stockbrokers, sometimes they were put on by the Australian Stock Exchange. Sometimes they were great, other times hardly worth attending, but even the almost useless contained one or two useful pieces of information.
The greatest teacher of all though was the stock market crash of October 1987 that showed how quickly you can come undone if you have a lot of money in the market, particularly money borrowed through margin loans. And yet many people appear to have completely forgotten this lesson by the time Storm came on the scene less than 20 years later.

 

[Harleyquin]

Despite the rights and wrongs discussed on this forum regarding the storm financial collapse and it's aftermath, there is one thing to remember and that is, hundreds of peoples lives are ruined financially and they will never recover. Now five years down the track we are seeing heart attacks, strokes, cancers, severe depression, suicide, major trust issues just to name a few... Also the majority are finding it very difficult to find any joy in their lives. It is a major problem irrespective of where the blame lies. I find this total destruction of so many lives quite unforgivable and unnecessary.

 

[DocK]

Despite the rights and wrongs discussed on this forum regarding the storm financial collapse and it's aftermath, there is one thing to remember and that is, hundreds of peoples lives are ruined financially and they will never recover. Now five years down the track we are seeing heart attacks, strokes, cancers, severe depression, suicide, major trust issues just to name a few... Also the majority are finding it very difficult to find any joy in their lives. It is a major problem irrespective of where the blame lies. I find this total destruction of so many lives quite unforgivable and unnecessary.

Try to hang in there, Harleyquin. I believe a lot of ex-stormies are going through something akin to the "7 stages of grief" - mourning the loss of their dreams and future (and livelihood). Counseling and support groups may be of help to some. Please urge any you know who are doing it tough to seek help - there have been enough lives ruined already!

 

[Judd]

Try to hang in there, Harleyquin. I believe a lot of ex-stormies are going through something akin to the "7 stages of grief" - mourning the loss of their dreams and future (and livelihood). Counseling and support groups may be of help to some. Please urge any you know who are doing it tough to seek help - there have been enough lives ruined already!

Yes, that is the aspect which is the most distressing. I was completely hardline when I first read about Storm Financial but after reading most of the submissions to Parliamentary review, I've moderated somewhat.

I still cannot comprehend many aspects, such as plonking down $100k of borrowed money to again borrow the equivalent amount with the mongrel adviser taking $14k leaving the client with $186k to invest and interest on the debt on $200k.

I never will understand a number of matters associated with Storm Financial. Pretty sure though some variation of it will occur at some point in the future. Always does.

 

[sailteam30]

I would like to share some GOOD news on StormFinancial - Yes, I borrowed, Yes I trusted an ASIC accredited financial adviser and Yes I lost a bomb - but the good news is the original deal gave me an incentive, confidence and initiative to quit my 9-5 job (gave me great pleasure telling the boss what she could do with her job) and start my own business which has gone very well indeed.

I work 2 days a week and make 3 times what I made in the 9-5, I am my own boss, I employ someone part time to assist me and have recouped a lot of what I lost.

Thank you Storm Financial but I am disappointed with ASIC and the lawyers who are feeding sumptuously on the storm carcass - as someone said many posts ago, the only ones to profit from this will be the lawyers.

I am now more discerning and will never trust anyone again with my money - I make my own investments now so I now know who to blame if it goes belly up.

But I would like to see someone join Bernie Madoff in the clink, but with ASIC running it then I doubt it very much.

 

[pilots]

What stoped us was that they wanted 7% of our life's savings and then wanted us to borrower a load more and take 7% of that as well, as we walked out the wife said to me our best investment would be for me to get a job at Storm.

 

[Harleyquin]

It's great to read success stories after the storm collapse. Five years down the track we are all tired and sick, and just want some enjoyment in our life. I don't want anyone else to suffer the way we have all suffered. Whether we were right in trusting these people for financial help is now beside the point, we did and thought we could. We now know we can't trust and shouldn't trust anyone with our financial decisions.

I understand those who are saying you only had to read a book on the subject, that may very well be true, but every person and situation is different. If you are busy working and doing other things and don't feel confident in making major financial decisions what do you do? Some of the anti Stormie posters have recommended books on here, I made a list of them bought them and read them, and would also recommend some reading before investing, I just never thought of it before.