Storm Financial Group

[sails]

...If you can't take responsibility for your failures then you can't take responsibility for your successes in my opinion.

Although, in this case, it appears Storm were happy take responsibility of other people's money and were praised as the goose laying the golden eggs during the bull market. I would have thought they should also be taking some responsibility for the failure - especially if they are sitting on millions made on fees from these people's money.

That said, I do appreciate where you are coming from - it's a lesson I learned very early on in trading is that you are fully accountable even when things go wrong. With the attitude you suggest above, it's a case of "my mistake", learn the lesson and get back to the business of making money.

Maybe that's why those of us who have been trading for a while are less likely to get caught up in these schemes as we know we remain fully accountable if it fails. Perhaps that is what makes us extremely careful, do the sums, etc.

 

[Julia]

The upshot is that there are numerous hard working aussies that have been affected and that we should be supportive of their situation, not dishing on these people for being greedy, uneducated, be positive, etc etc..

As pointed out earlier, this is a stock forum, not a support group.
Please don't tell me how I 'should' be.

Who would have thought that going long on an investment in say RIO at $120 per share would have turned to sh%t now? Blue Chip shares you buy and just put in the bottom draw and come back in 5 years right!

When you have a margin loan against it???? For heaven's sake!

So the All Ords are crap at the moment and a lot of our Super Fuds are crap at the moment as well. Let's all of us try and get through this and come out the other side. We can try and call this experience, but I can think of better ways to learn.

And in the process perhaps learn a bit about risk management.

 

[Ijustnewit]

My Storm story post is on p 31.

Since I lost our life savings I feel totally stripped of any self worth. I can hardly look my young son in the eye for the guilt about how his life will now change because of my huge debt.

No post whether it be about utter greed, sheer stupidity, or of my own making, can make me feel any worse than I already do. But some posts like yours Carey make me feel a tad better. So thanks.

Yes I agree, fingerpointers and self made experts can't make me feel anyworse than I am now THANKS CAREY

 

[Stan 101]

I think that Trevor_S's comments have been a bit harsh as we can always be very smug in hindsight.
There have been others as well who have been quite critical as well , but at the end of the day, we all make decisions based on gut feel, advice, what is the trendy product etc etc...

Smug in hindsite? This kind of thing has happened before and will happen again. Ignorance is never an excuse. People's memories are short.

We can all sit back and say you should have done this that and the other , but there are some of us out there that rely soley on advice given by Solicitors, Financial Planners, Brokers, Mad Punters etc ...

That is one's prerogative. What I really can't understand is when the market was clearly in decline and Storm clients have made it clear they wanted out, they stayed in. So screw one's own common sense and allow yourself to be talked out of what you want to do as you see the sky falling around you.

The upshot is that there are numerous hard working aussies that have been affected and that we should be supportive of their situation

Why? There are people the world over who are struggling due to the worldwide downtrend. Why are Storm clients any different?

Who would have thought that going long on an investment in say RIO at $120 per share would have turned to sh%t now?

Funny, there were all those people just a short 4 years ago crying over AMP shares almost demanding that they have their money returned becuase AMP was bluechip. You remember AMP dropping through the floor, don't you? What made you think it would never happen again? Fantasy? Pull your head in!

Blue Chip shares you buy and just put in the bottom draw and come back in 5 years right!

That and one case of Stan 101's genuine snake oil. Will cure all that ails ya. I take credit card.

We can try and call this experience, but I can think of better ways to learn.

It's called reading....From a book. I'm glad you are starting to finally understand there are no excuses in this world. If you want to do something, anything you must take responsibility for it regardless of who is informing you.

To all of you guys who have been stung, I pray that there is a solution for you and that you will be looked after by the "system"

Why? Were all these people going to offer dividends to the "system" from their gains before the ASX tanked? I doubt that very much. That's a great "Australian" way. Gear yourself to the hilt and reap any rewards. When it all turns sour, look for the closest person to blame. Again, Pull your head in!

To all of the knockers and the "told you so people" , ease off the guys hurting at the moment and maybe even show some compassion

I think there are very few here who aren't offering compassion. There is also a lot of inability to comprehend some of the thought processes of those caught out.

because what goes around comes around!!

No, and with that attitude it is bound to happen to your ilk again. How many times do you have to hear it. How about taking responsibility for your actions. If you want to invest, gain a little knowledge in the general area. It's not rocket science. I refer you again to AMP as that was a truly high profile case that should still be fresh in all investor's minds. Obviously not yours, though. Read into that as you wish.

To the terrible greedy manipulators of this system, shame on you for betraying the trust of hard working aussies and hope that karma kicks in soon!!

The world is manipulated. If you don't trust your skills to pick a manipulator and navigate through their ways, you are in the wrong game. The world is not just. It never will be.




Cheers,

 

[ShareGuy]

The world is manipulated. If you don't trust your skills to pick a manipulator and navigate through their ways, you are in the wrong game. The world is not just. It never will be.

Cheers,

Right, so we should let manipulator's get away with it?

Is there any chance you live in Nigeria? Or do you want Australia to become a basket case like them?

 

[cuttlefish]

cuttlefish quote: ...If you can't take responsibility for your failures then you can't take responsibility for your successes in my opinion.​

sails quote: Although, in this case, it appears Storm were happy take responsibility of other people's money and were praised as the goose laying the golden eggs during the bull market.

I guess my point here is this - had the Storm clients been succesful and made a lot of money out of their high risk strategy - would they have absolved themselves of all responsibility for that situation - or would they patted themselves on the back for their savvy and good sense in choosing Storm. I suspect the latter.

There are a lot of people prepared to accept responsibility for success but it takes a lot of bravery to accept responsibility for failure. I have all sympathy and support for anyone with the courage to do it, and the courage and perseverence to make their way out of the horrible situation that they are in.

 

[GumbyLearner]

I guess my point here is this - had the Storm clients been succesful and made a lot of money out of their high risk strategy - would they have absolved themselves of all responsibility for that situation - or would they patted themselves on the back for their savvy and good sense in choosing Storm. I suspect the latter.

There are a lot of people prepared to accept responsibility for success but it takes a lot of bravery to accept responsibility for failure. I have all sympathy and support for anyone with the courage to do it, and the courage and perseverence to make their way out of the horrible situation that they are in.

Well said CF.

 

[Trevor_S]

I think that Trevor_S's comments have been a bit harsh as we can always be very smug in hindsight.

It's unfortunate that's your interpretation of my comments. Personally I feel deep compassion and a sadness for the predicament of those who post like Anastasia etc but saccharine coating a turd, still leaves you with a turd.

There have been others as well who have been quite critical as well,

I have not seen that at all, I think you mistake criticism for incredulity...

but at the end of the day, we all make decisions based on gut feel, advice, what is the trendy product etc etc...

Not all of us... some of us do a modicum of research and invest in areas they have some understanding of.

Who would have thought that going long on an investment in say RIO at $120 per share would have turned to sh%t now?

Anyone that purchased RIO at $120 was speculating that the BHP bid would go ahead and they could pocket some quick money but you're right. I didn't think it would drop as far as it has, I had mid 4000's pegged, so what the hell would I know about market timing (I don't own any RIO)

Blue Chip shares you buy and just put in the bottom draw and come back in 5 years right!

5 years ? not moi... Some of mine go back to '91. That aside, anyone using a margin loan to leverage had better be paying some attention !

can try and call this experience, but I can think of better ways to learn.

Indeed, which is where you have come back full circle to what some have been saying, self education, definitely easier.

 

[Stan 101]

Right, so we should let manipulator's get away with it?

Are you talking about the Australians who manipulated (for want of another term) the tax system by gearing to the hilt to allow for a maximum tax deduction? That's a bit harsh. Aren't they the same people you are trying to stick up for?

Is there any chance you live in Nigeria?

Clearly not. That is just a foolish statement and you know it.

Or do you want Australia to become a basket case like them?

IMO Australia is already a basket case in regards to this scenario. To have people pay large fees to FP to throw darts at the ASX with borrowed money is a basket case scenario, isn't it.
And it will eventually screw up gearing for all of the rest.


cheers,

 

[cuttlefish]

IMO Australia is already a basket case in regards to this scenario. To have people pay large fees to FP to throw darts at the ASX with borrowed money is a basket case scenario, isn't it.
And it will eventually screw up gearing for all of the rest.


cheers,

This is the problem - on a smaller scale every tom, richard and henry has been able to use their home equity to play the Skase/Bond leverage game. The scary thing is the size of this problem. The real estate market is enormous - and significant price collapses will (and have in the US/UK) have a huge impact on the economy.

 

[ShareGuy]

Are you talking about the Australians who manipulated (for want of another term) the tax system by gearing to the hilt to allow for a maximum tax deduction? That's a bit harsh. Aren't they the same people you are trying to stick up for?

cheers,

I can only assume you don't no a great deal about the situation syorm have put people in. Have a read below of Steve Reynolds story and tell me he was worried about the tax man. I read in another artical but connot find it that he actually lost his only source of income ( a pension) due to failing the assets test because of storms adivise to leverage.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2008/12/17/28485_hpnews.html

I also know of people who sold their business to retire and storm adivised them to leverage into the market of course with the proceeds instead of rolling it into super and getting the 50% retirement exemption on the CGT.

This sort of adivice is totally unacceptable no matter how stupid people are to take it.

I'm not trying to stick up for anyone im just trying to advocate that Storms directors and FP's should be held accountable for breaching their duty of care. Do you not agree?

ps; Nigeria wishes they had a basket case

 

[ShareGuy]

Are you talking about the Australians who manipulated (for want of another term) the tax system by gearing to the hilt to allow for a maximum tax deduction? That's a bit harsh. Aren't they the same people you are trying to stick up for?

cheers,

So high income earners who try to save tax are manipulaters? Have you never claimed a tax deduction?

 

[Solly]

"QUT (Queensland University of Technology http://www.qut.edu.au/) currently delivers a Master of Business (Applied Finance) to 20 financial advisors within the Storm Financial Group. This program is delivered in four intensive sessions per year over a period of three years. This program, including assessment, is tailored to fit in with participants’ business commitments."

It's from this link here:

http://www.corped.bus.qut.edu.au/programs/ourclients.jsp#Storm

Didn't an endorsement about this course appear somewhere on the Storm website at sometime...?

As they say......."Only in Queensland"...........

 

[Stormin_Norman]

So when u go into the doctors u quickly whip up a 5 year medical degree, 2 years of residency and 5 years of practice experience to make u "more educated" so that u can then tell the doctor what they should or shouldnt be doing with your medical advice.

its called a 2nd opinion. how many storm clients went and got one?

 

[Stan 101]

So high income earners who try to save tax are manipulaters? Have you never claimed a tax deduction?

Yes I do believe high income earners manipulate and use the tax system to their advantage. I certainly do. I never said it was a bad thing, you brought up manipulation. Trading with life savings is not a game. It is probably the single most important thing one will ever have to consider.

Tend not to gear to max LRV and certainly don't keep drawing down off paper gains. Also have a plan to actually pay back the margin funds unless you are prepared to face the consequences. This is not hindsite smirkiness, this is simple common sense.

Have you ever stopped to think about all the people who are researching Storm now and finding this site? Take a look at how many people with Storm related stories have only a few posts and recent Aussie Stock Forum registrations. Why are they only now joining up? Why weren't they here before they invested their cash?
I also wonder how many are reading the wealth of knowledge on this site. Are the newcomers asking questions from some of the very resourceful members who are willing to share their expertise about any future trading methodology or did they just join here for support?

Again, this is not to be misconstrued as lack of empathy, but just trying to understand why...

cheers,

 

[ShareGuy]

The world is manipulated. If you don't trust your skills to pick a manipulator and navigate through their ways, you are in the wrong game. The world is not just. It never will be.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Stan 101
Are you talking about the Australians who manipulated (for want of another term) the tax system by gearing to the hilt to allow for a maximum tax deduction? That's a bit harsh. Aren't they the same people you are trying to stick up for?

cheers,

I think you brought up 'manipulated', this is definately the wrong word to be using when talking about tax deductions with interest on debt. The government expects and wants people to do this as an economy cannot survive without it. (Not talking about storms use of debt)

Yes I do believe high income earners manipulate and use the tax system to their advantage. I certainly do. I never said it was a bad thing, you brought up manipulation. Trading with life savings is not a game. It is probably the single most important thing one will ever have to consider.

Tend not to gear to max LRV and certainly don't keep drawing down off paper gains. Also have a plan to actually pay back the margin funds unless you are prepared to face the consequences. This is not hindsite smirkiness, this is simple common sense.

Have you ever stopped to think about all the people who are researching Storm now and finding this site? Take a look at how many people with Storm related stories have only a few posts and recent Aussie Stock Forum registrations. Why are they only now joining up? Why weren't they here before they invested their cash?
I also wonder how many are reading the wealth of knowledge on this site. Are the newcomers asking questions from some of the very resourceful members who are willing to share their expertise about any future trading methodology or did they just join here for support?

Again, this is not to be misconstrued as lack of empathy, but just trying to understand why...

cheers,

I in no way disagree with you that people should build up their own knowledge in order to invest and this is a great place to do it, so lets hope people do just that.

My main point is that all the advisers and directors of storm should be held accountable for the dodgy advise that was given. I don't particularly want to see the Cassimartis' flying around in a lear jet living it up on the money they made by giving dodgy advise. Surely you agree?

 

[Stan 101]

I can only assume you don't no a great deal about the situation syorm have put people in. Have a read below of Steve Reynolds story and tell me he was worried about the tax man.

Okay, I'm now officially tired of this weeping tripe. I don't know who Steve Reynolds is. But I did pick up this little tidbit from the story. The story printed by the same newspaper who was singing Storms's praises up until recently.
"Mr Reynolds said the part he could not understand was how his bank and financial adviser could arrange for him to borrow so much money when his only income"

And

"How can a 60-year-old war veteran get into this position on the advice of a licensed financial adviser and how can the banks lend that large amount of money to this bloke who is on a pension?"

So after Mr Reynolds has a huge debt, he now asks how it could happen to him. Did he not think for one second something was wrong? He damn well knew it was wrong yet did nothing. Storm was no angel and showed less than average judgement yes, but they weren't the only ones, were they? I'd like to know why Mr Reynolds wasn't feeling guilt pangs and going to the paper as he watched his portfolio rise.


There I've said it.

cheers,

 

[Stan 101]

My main point is that all the advisers and directors of storm should be held accountable for the dodgy advise that was given. I don't particularly want to see the Cassimartis' flying around in a lear jet living it up on the money they made by giving dodgy advise. Surely you agree?

Do you know something I don't? I thought in Australia we are innocent until proven guilty. I have no idea who the Cassimartis really are. If the courts find they are guity of "dodgy advise" they should be dealt with accordingly.
What proof do you have that Storm gave dodgy advise? Do you have access to all the client portfolios? I'm going to make an assumption of no.
You are assuming Storm were underhanded. Big difference to knowing.The method of gearing on gearing is nothing new, is not illegal and I personally have used the method on and off when I feel the risk is manageable.

Personally I think it is crazy for anyone close to or at retirement age to even consider such risk. If I had worked all my life and was an "unsophisticated investor" there is no way in hell I'd go back into hock. Sure Storm may have shown pretty pamphlets about future earnings (again nothing illegal there) but if you have worked all your life, surely you would have realised that there would be some risk? I find it hard that someone could reach retirement age and not learn that life lesson. Common sense tells one that. That doesn't make Storms advise illegal or "dodgy". How about you start putting up some facts on the matter.
cheers,

 

[ShareGuy]

Do you know something I don't? I thought in Australia we are innocent until proven guilty. I have no idea who the Cassimartis really are. If the courts find they are guity of "dodgy advise" they should be dealt with accordingly.
What proof do you have that Storm gave dodgy advise? Do you have access to all the client portfolios? I'm going to make an assumption of no.
You are assuming Storm were underhanded. Big difference to knowing.The method of gearing on gearing is nothing new, is not illegal and I personally have used the method on and off when I feel the risk is manageable.

Personally I think it is crazy for anyone close to or at retirement age to even consider such risk. If I had worked all my life and was an "unsophisticated investor" there is no way in hell I'd go back into hock. Sure Storm may have shown pretty pamphlets about future earnings (again nothing illegal there) but if you have worked all your life, surely you would have realised that there would be some risk? I find it hard that someone could reach retirement age and not learn that life lesson. Common sense tells one that. That doesn't make Storms advise illegal or "dodgy". How about you start putting up some facts on the matter.
cheers,

I have already outline a case where the 50% retirement exemption was forfeited due to storms advise, also Steve Reynolds case where he lost his pension because of storms advise (I know this from the media). And I have plently more reasons to believe the advise was dodgy but do not wish to post here. You even say above that no one considering retirement should consider such a risk, well don't you think a FP shouldn't be advising it?

On another note have a look at the action groups website, I don't know who wrote it but gees with qoutes like this:

"If you are a disaffected Storm investor, some one who has been screwed over by the banks, or simply some one with a social conscience that would like to help … we want you!"

They are going down the road of subprime lending, which I think is misfounded and will never work, it's storms advise that is to blame not the banks!

 

[cuttlefish]

They are going down the road of subprime lending, which I think is misfounded and will never work, it's storms advise that is to blame not the banks!

Yeah I agree with this. The banks have deeper pockets which would make them a target in that regard - but it's highly unlikely imo that the banks (based on my own experience) would not have airtight documentation in relation to the loan details and customer acknowledgements. That is their business. On the other hand, Storm financial would appear to have been giving the advice that led people to take out these loans - which for many instances were wreckless given the client age/status/risk profile etc. There would appear to be strong argument that the advice given to some clients was negligent, in which case I'm assuming the PI insurance would come into play (opinion only no lawyers here).