Storm Financial Group

[Tysonboss1]

Your post regarding looking at bank shares over five years upset many. Personally I wish many of those I've spoken to would post then perhaps you, B and co would realize just how out of touch you are .

How the Hell could julias rational break down of the facts about bank returns upset anybody?

 

[Tysonboss1]

If most of us have our way they will all have some action taken against them unless they can prove that they've done nothing wrong.

Gee,... I didn't realise your lynch mop were above the law,

Are they not innocent until proven guilty, Not guilty unless proven innocent.

 

[shibby]

SJ exactly what we were told and exactly what questions we asked is something that I would only feel comfortable discussing if I had a taped record of our meeting with our storm advisor. There is a lot I've forgotten however we made sure we asked what we thought were the right questions and we were obviously given the 'right' answers.

I thought they were genuine and had no idea that we had to do all this research and all these other things we are now being told by other posters on this forum, that we should have done. GG said two plus years ago in a post to me "they fed you crap and you swallowed it", I felt sick and angry when he said that. Today I know it's true, that's exactly what happened.

I have never "only" blamed the banks involved with storm.

If most people did check out Storm through the FPA (which one would)


The following was posted by sqwark7600Skeptok on the
20th-February-2009, 08:00 AM #1168
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerkin


From the FPA site:
“The FPA is the peak professional body for financial planning in Australia, representing approximately 12,000 individuals and businesses. Over 9,000 of its 12,000 members are practising financial planners. The FPA and its members strive to improve the financial wellbeing of all Australians.
The FPA provides the leadership and professional framework that enable members to deliver quality financial advice to their clients. FPA members include financial planners from a variety of backgrounds and disciplines, including over 5,500 CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ professionals – the global symbol of excellence in financial planning. All FPA practitioner members are bound by a code of ethics, high professional standards and must meet continuing professional education requirements.”

I think most reasonable people would accept that this is a reasonable straw for a potential Storm Client to clutch at don’t you think? (My bold highlight).
20th-February-2009, 11:53 AM #1170

 

[Judd]

How the Hell could julias rational break down of the facts about bank returns upset anybody?

Emotional triggers emanating from emotionally charged situations. Fight or flight reaction to psychological stress or physical threat.

It's an individual thing.

 

[shibby]

SJ

I have never "only" blamed the banks involved with storm.

If c**p is what storm were spruiking, then the financial experts at the banks didn't swallow it they supported it to the tune of billions of $$$ - the question I feel justified in asking is "WHY".

Now lets talk about the banks to Quote Steve Borden

25th-February-2009, 09:39 PM #1240

Steve Borden

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 18 Re: Storm Financial Group
________________________________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia
Do you have proof that the bank 'made up the information'?


From the instances I have seen over many years it is difficult to draw any other conclusion. Income figures are clearly made up when they have no basis in fact, and no they were not low doc loans.

For example when the figures provided by the client to storm and then to the Bank are not the same as those that appear on the application but a self-funded retiree nevertheless meets the required commitment level.

Or when the income amounts are based on a lender using projected income from an investment portfolio but neglecting to factor in the margin loan expense.

Or even using a projected income that includes income and growth to service the loans but not factoring in either redemption of the investment or an increasing margin loan.

As to evidence, the lack of substantiation of the figures used will be sufficient.
The onus will be on the Bank to prove their figures were correct.

What's in it for the Bank, market share and profit,
what's in it for the Banker, bonuses and promotion.
In the latter instance hopefully by the time it hits the fan you have moved on and it's a problem for the guy that replaced you.

Of course there was no thought to it going wrong to the extent it did so as long as the Bank got its money back that's all that ever really matters.

The Banks never really had a relationship with the client, it was simply transactional from their perspective, the relationship was run by storm and the Bank's were not 'allowed' to cross-sell to these clients. There was also a lingering view that when the next increase was being sought the deal would be churned to the Bank with the best offer. So to keep up your numbers you needed to do every deal you could to keep storm happy.



16th-February-2009, 11:38 AM #1092

 

[shibby]

I pulled this one out of my archives
notice we have been hearing the same ol same ol since 2008

read what Cosgrove Fenton has to say


posted by
sqwark7600
Skeptok



Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 78 Re: Storm Financial Group
________________________________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosgrove Fenton
As stated by others all industries will have "bad apples". Victims of a car crash - caused by someone driving recklessly/speeding, don't look to sue the police for not stopping the negligent driver, or the fuel company who provided the petrol. "S*&% happens" Storm clients have to blame Storm (the driver) and no one else. Plenty of people (outside of the Storm vehicle) have margin loans and only a small percentage of them have suffered the damage we are seeing when compared to Storm passengers.


I am aware of that. You miss my point and it is:
that FPA endorsement of Storm and the presence of CFPs in their organistaion would lead clients to the conclusion that Storm would be following the FPA code.
This is a valid legal argument as to why they should not shoulder the full responsibility for the tragedy (and isn't that their task at present).
How were they to know Storm was a bunch of rotten apples?
Let's face it, if EC had a basic exit strategy and reasonable risk management for his clients let alone himself, today he would be a hero and the global financial guru of the year.

That was 2008
In 2009 I saw my Solicitor and he told me then to be patient and wait because I would be very surprised because time has a way of revealing information.
My conclusion - Storm Financial was an iceberg you only see a small part of an iceberg on the surface the bulk is hidden from view and what is there beggars belief.

 

[bunyip]

As for agreeing with someone else on this forum I've seen where once again you've agreed with bunyips load of rubbish re the banking industry selling their "commodities". Do you really think our financial industry compares with our petroleum industry? Obviously you do. Well done!!!

'Commodities'? I said no such thing. Get your facts straight Harleyquin, and stop getting all melodramatic and emotional and irrational.....again.

 

[shibby]

'Commodities'? I said no such thing. Get your facts straight Harleyquin, and stop getting all melodramatic and emotional and irrational.....again.

In economics, a commodity is the generic term for any marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs.


To quote Bunyip from the 14th January #6482
About 15 years ago a bloke I know became a financial planner/investment adviser with Westpac. He’d had no previous experience in that field – Westpac put him through a course lasting about four weeks, at the end of which time he was supposedly qualified to advise people on how to invest their money.
Although Westpac called him a financial planner, he was barely involved in most of the usual services provided by financial planners – basically he was just a commission salesman for Westpac’s financial products.
In that respect I guess he wasn’t much different to Storm’s advisers who masqueraded as financial planners, but were in fact just selling a product and, presumably, getting a cut of the 7% upfront fee.

I know I have a mere BEc but to me is sure as hell looks like Westpacs Financial Product is a commodity if you look at the defenition above

My Goodness gracious me, Bunyip "Laddy", your not infallible maybe you can't walk on water after all?

 

[Solly]

Then we would probably be accused of being egocentric.

What! your not?

It genuinely puzzles me why you, HQ et al are even members of this forum.

Why are you?

Forums are where people come to exchange information, usually with the aim of learning from those who have greater expertise in a particular area.

What a hoot – you really believe that you have some thing to contribute apart from the theme of “we are to admit that we were stupid in not seeing the enormous risks involved”.

If you looked at some of the other threads you would see that people are very quick to disagree and criticise strategies or comments from others with which they disagree. That's what makes forums so useful, i.e. they provide alternative ways of thinking about a topic or problem.

I would love this to be a forum where ideas are exchanged I tried that years ago and I am so thankful to people like Solly and Carey Ramm who gave such good common sense advice when I needed it so badly there was a sense then of a joint effort for us to survive. Then it changed into a quest of what actually happened and again the Aussie Stock Forum site was invaluable. if I was to lose my house and all my money I needed to know why and I was determined to find out. Over the years there was such a great input of ideas and information and little by little it came together of course having a parliamentary inquiry and then the Worrells Inquiry also helped.

..................

Doesn't SICAG exist as a support group? Wouldn't you be more comfortable there where I imagine your co-members have as their priority comfort and kindness, rather than objective comments?

I don’t belong to SICAG.

shibby

It's great to see you back, I hope that other ex-clients follow and start posting. I too hope that this forum is of benefit to those directly impacted by the Storm collapse. I also hope that the white noise and static of apportioning blame and demands of public utterances of fault acceptance skips off the ionosphere and heads into the ether.

In the present environment with the current matters that are being examined and those that are before the bench I believe it is very prudent that no party makes any admissions of fault. In our society the apportioning of blame and application of penalties and sentencing lie with others to apply. The court of ASF holds no authority but the written comments and postings can be called upon if others feel that their reputation has been injured by exposing them to contempt or ridicule.

My interests in the Storm collapse are around the mechanisms and environment that existed that allowed this collapse to eventuate. I hope that there are others who are reading this thread who will make the decision to contribute and be part of the online history of this saga.

A few new posters and the return of some old would greatly invigorate the discussion. I have the feeling that this thread may even be a point of current interest for some legal/media study students and their academics ...

S

 

[Julia]

Tysonboss1

How the Hell could julias rational break down of the facts about bank returns upset anybody?

Emotional triggers emanating from emotionally charged situations. Fight or flight reaction to psychological stress or physical threat.

It's an individual thing.

Judd, could you explain the 'psychological stress', or even more the 'physical threat'
incurred in reading an explanation of how to access the share price of a company?

Such information being offered in response to someone expressing confusion because they did not know whether to believe a claim that bank shares had done very well.

 

[bunyip]

In economics, a commodity is the generic term for any marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs.


I know I have a mere BEc but to me is sure as hell looks like Westpacs Financial Product is a commodity if you look at the defenition above

My Goodness gracious me, Bunyip "Laddy", your not infallible maybe you can't walk on water after all?

If a 'commodity' is what you want to call the products that banks sell, no problem.

 

[shibby]

shibby


My interests in the Storm collapse are around the mechanisms and environment that existed that allowed this collapse to eventuate. I hope that there are others who are reading this thread who will make the decision to contribute and be part of the online history of this saga.

A few new posters and the return of some old would greatly invigorate the discussion. I have the feeling that this thread may even be a point of current interest for some legal/media study students and their academics ...

S

I agree wholeheartedly Solly let us all contribute once again and have meaningful discussions and talk about our current problems and the questions that we would like answered there could be someone on this forum that has the knowledge to help we were such a divergent group from all walks of life.

I have a discussion point that I would love to begin with but would be so happy to discuss any thing except how stupid we supposedly are –
that is not an invitation to start that one over again where someone will say I never said that blah; blah; blah.

There is a common thread throughout the knockers of the Stormies that we were greedy.

I am requesting that you leave out the scenario of the “Stormies that had millions and millions of dollars and therefore could have lived off their money if they deposited into a bank account” group that we have heard of time and time again.

I believe statistically the proportion of that group was at a minimum.

Where is your proof that we were promised an extremely high interest rate to move over to Storm Financial. I have been searching and reading any thing I could possibly read for years and I have no paperwork or memory of anyone saying that they were promised an exorbitant rate of return and that was the reason that they went with Storm.

I would like to eliminate the urban myths that grew around Storm and maybe other people can join in and have a gripe about what particularly gets under their nose as well.

 

[Tysonboss1]

What is a commodity-

A physical substance, such as food, grains, and metals, which is interchangeable with another product of the same type, and which investors buy or sell, usually through futures contracts.

The price of the commodity is subject to supply and demand.


No I don't think the term can be applied to banking products that can not be bought or sold, and are not identical to other products traded in the markets.

 

[Harleyquin]

I agree with Solly, welcome back Shibby. I've enjoyed reading your posts it gives some balance to this discussion.

Actually Bunyip I'm sorry to disappoint you, I feel very rational and in control. Can't remember the last time I genuinely lost my cool.

I did check. Our storm advisor was a member of FPA. I/ we are not laws unto ourselves as you would suggest but then neither are you my friend.

I've a question for you and anyone else on here "What is the role of a financial planner/advisor and what are their responsibilities?"

 

[bunyip]

I did check. Our storm advisor was a member of FPA. I/ we are not laws unto ourselves as you would suggest but then neither are you my friend.

I have no idea what you're talking about. But don't bother explaining - I'm not interested.

 

[Julia]

Solly: if you are going to quote remarks I have made, please do so accurately, attributing what I have said under my name, not - as occurs in your post 6549 - incorporating my comments with those of another poster.

Here is Joe's thread on how to use the Quote Tags.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2737&highlight=tags

 

[shibby]

What is a commodity-

A physical substance, such as food, grains, and metals, which is interchangeable with another product of the same type, and which investors buy or sell, usually through futures contracts.

The price of the commodity is subject to supply and demand.


No I don't think the term can be applied to banking products that can not be bought or sold, and are not identical to other products traded in the markets.

Sorry your wrong again

Bunyip said
basically he was just a commission salesman for Westpac’s financialProducts.

So again another definition of Commodity - An article of trade or commerce especially a product as distinguished from a service

Then go to Westpac on the web and have a look sitting there is a tab that is headed Westpac Products and Services low and behold the heaven opens up with choices

 

[Tysonboss1]

I have no paperwork or memory of anyone saying that they were promised an exorbitant rate of return and that was the reason that they went with Storm.

.

What sort of returns were they suggesting?
What do you consider exorbitant?
What do you consider an acceptable return?

 

[shibby]

Tyson Boss 1

Normally I would have let your last comment pass but I was determined I wouldn't
This is really kindergarten stuff dont you think
Once again cant you contribute any thing of importance anything unique


Solly said earlier

"In that direction," the Cat said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Hatter: and in that direction," waving the other paw, "lives a March Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad."
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you ca'n't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be, said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

We have a chance to improve this forum
Once again Julia has to snipe at the correct way for quotations on the forum how many times over the last 3 years have you pointed that out?
It was probably my earlier quote that your referring to anyway

No wonder people dont post you make it impossible for sane people to stay and contribute - nothing ever changes.

 

[shibby]

What sort of returns were they suggesting?
What do you consider exorbitant?
What do you consider an acceptable return?

I will eventually answer your questions but I would like to see first someone who had called us greedy answer my questions.
I would like to ask the questions for a change on why we are greedy.
You are free to answer your own 3 questions if you would like too.

I commenced with Storm in September 2006 what do you think would be a conservative interest rate return on an investment for that period?