Storm Financial Group

Julia said:

Alternatively, Mr Jelich understood very well the risks involved, but figured the potential profits were worth it. And he took clients along on the same ride.
I am not so charitable as you.

Re Manny being a 'superb salesman', yes, and that is the problem.
Storm investors were not looking for a smart sales job, they were looking for and expecting a realistic assessment of their circumstances and a genuine financial plan in accordance with their risk profile.

Agree.

I presume your whole post is pretty much tongue in cheek as most of your posts are.
I'm not sure, however, that the irony will be much appreciated by Stormers.

Given your level of enthusiasm for Manny, I might even suspect you are lining yourself up for a job with the revitalised Storm model. Need a reference?

Soft Dough, I disagree here. The market was pretty much in free fall and CBA couldn't risk holding further. They didn't have the 20/20 foresighted crystal ball to know that a recovery such as we have seen would have occurred.

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Manny had the foresight that Adler, Bond and Skase had.

He had Jelich walking up and down the coast schmoozing and cajoling. He had a phalanx of advisers selling the product with 7% to Storm on every transaction.

The name of the game is to get enough muppets on board with a simple product, this he did.

He now goes up against amateurs and muppets, ASIC, other regulators, Senate committees and the banks.

The trick with being involved with a genius like Manny is to get out before the whole schamozzle goes **** up.

When he starts off again in Adelaide or Hobart or in some other city with financial problems, I'll be down there with my gumnuts to get in on the ground floor.

I might even approach the Financial Planners Association to get meself a license.

A Storm rep was on one of their muppet committees up until a short time before the whole show blew up.

For all I know Manny may still be in with them.

He is a bloody genius and much maligned on this forum for his charisma, money management and care of other people's assets. But he is Manny. And they are few.

SICAG still has Manny adherents involved and with their help he will fight another day. Go SICAG, go.

Good on you Manny. And keep the muppets behind you.

As Jonathon Swift said

"So nat'ralists observe, a flea
Hath smaller fleas that on him prey,
And these have smaller fleas that bite 'em,
And so proceed ad infinitum."
...

Click to expand...

gg

"Macquarie head to give evidence"

"THE managing director of Macquarie Bank, Richard Sheppard, has been called to give evidence about the bank's performance during the collapse of financial planner Storm Financial, as further details about problems with the bank's margin loans emerge.

Yesterday it was confirmed that Mr Sheppard and the bank's executive director, Peter van der Westhuyzen, would appear before the parliamentary inquiry on October 28.

BusinessDay is aware of at least one other incident in which it is alleged that there have been serious bookkeeping mistakes in the way Macquarie closed out its margin loans."

More in BusinessDay by Stuart Washington in The Age here;

http://www.theage.com.au/business/macquarie-head-to-give-evidence-20091001-get5.html

"Storm model cleared by CBA"

"Less than two years before Storm Financial collapsed a Commomwealth Bank risk analysis concluded the advisory firm's investment model was sound and funds would suffer little volatility"

Read more by Anthony Marx in The Courier Mail of Oct 2nd 2009.

Judd said:

Strange thing about borrowing money from banks. Most people think they are borrowing from a bank itself. Reality is that, in general, they are borrowing other people's money. Yep, Mrs Jones, aged pensioner, who has $8k in a term deposit to cover her funeral costs, Joe Smith, warehouse supervisor, whose salary is deposited and used to fund his family's living expenses.

Usual suspects who, unwittingly, think they are just depositing money when they are actually lending the money to the bank (depositors are shown as a liability in the bank's accounts and where a banks statement is received it it normally produced from the bank's viewpoint - a credit is what they owe you and a debit is what you owe them! - hooray for double-entry bookkeeping.)

So when the funds of these "depositors" are at risk (margin loans, house mortgages, business loans, etc) you would hope that banks go in hard to recover the money they owe to other people. Probably, that is one of the factors which was behind the actions of the banks in regard to this Storm debacle.

But where the banks has stuffed up, to my mind, it is not the depositors who should wear the cost, and nor should they, but the shareholders. That is why they stump up the capital and wear the risks. At least, I hope they understand that.

So rectification of any cr&p lending decisions, through compensation, by the banks will flow through to those shareholders, be they Mrs Jones or Mr Smith (who may also be shareholders in order to supplement their income) and every superannuation fund in Australia, who will, quite rightly, wear the cost of any compensation to Storm former clients.

Those devastated through investing via Storm will more than likely not see it this way but that's understandable as well.

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The cost to shareholders of the CBA due to any compensation amounts paid to ex-storm clients has been mentioned a few times on this forum. Some seem to begrudge the fact that their shares may fall in value due to compensation being paid to the (insert description of choice here: greedy/ignorant/gullible/foolish etc) people who took storm's advice and the bank's money and now are seeking compensation from CBA.

Whilst I totally understand this view, it should be viewed in perspective. Although the whole storm debacle is a big deal in North Qld, and a lesser deal in Qld generally, it's really very small potatoes when viewed as a % of the CBA's business in total. Ralph Norris himself has stated that he's not proud of the "storm episode" but has also said that "This action affected roughly 2,500 of the bank's customers. The bank said in June the financial impact of these issues is not considered material, but acknowledged that the impact to customers is "more than financial". (http://www.financialstandard.com.au/news/view/26946/ )

To my mind, the CBA share price is more likely to be harmed by negative sentiment towards the bank, which directly affects market share. I'm sure a canny fellow like Mr Norris realises that being seen to be "doing the right thing to put right what/where they've done wrong" will do far more good to the share price in the long run than the relatively small amount of compensation the bank will end up paying out. To lose the reputation and standing in the community that the CBA has long held in Australia, particularly with the more mature sections of the community, would do it far more harm in the long run.

And yes, I'm hoping for some small compensation eventually, but I'm also still a direct shareholder of CBA.

That's a most sensible post, Dock. I agree with you completely.
BOQ, on the other hand, are generating adverse feeling with their different stand.

Julia said:

That's a most sensible post, Dock. I agree with you completely.
BOQ, on the other hand, are generating adverse feeling with their different stand.

Click to expand...

Perhaps they believe they did nothing wrong, and that the loss of storm customers is worth it in the face of legal action, which may have ramifications for similar events in the future.

I am not sure, but think that the townsville branch in question is a franchisee branch, so what message would be sent out to other franchisees if BOQ condemned their franchisee to bankruptcy for an event where they quite probably acted in a proper manner.

( I do assume they did everything by the book of course! )

"Calm before the Storm"

"STORM Financial's investment model was judged to be sound by a Commonwealth Bank risk analysis less than two years before the advisory group's collapse.

The March 2007 report by CommSec -- which also concluded that funds in Storm would suffer little volatility -- came just two months before the bank's subsidiary, Colonial Geared Investments, struck a then-confidential deal with Storm to raise the loan-to-value ratio (LVR) of clients from 70 to 80 per cent."


More by Anthony Marx in the Herald Sun here;

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/calm-before-the-storm/story-e6frfh4f-1225781928718

Garpal Gumnut said:

Manny had the foresight that Adler, Bond and Skase had.

He had Jelich walking up and down the coast schmoozing and cajoling. He had a phalanx of advisers selling the product with 7% to Storm on every transaction.

The name of the game is to get enough muppets on board with a simple product, this he did.

He now goes up against amateurs and muppets, ASIC, other regulators, Senate committees and the banks.

The trick with being involved with a genius like Manny is to get out before the whole schamozzle goes **** up.

When he starts off again in Adelaide or Hobart or in some other city with financial problems, I'll be down there with my gumnuts to get in on the ground floor.

I might even approach the Financial Planners Association to get meself a license.

A Storm rep was on one of their muppet committees up until a short time before the whole show blew up.

For all I know Manny may still be in with them.

He is a bloody genius and much maligned on this forum for his charisma, money management and care of other people's assets. But he is Manny. And they are few.

SICAG still has Manny adherents involved and with their help he will fight another day. Go SICAG, go.

Good on you Manny. And keep the muppets behind you.

As Jonathon Swift said


gg

Click to expand...

gg, I've read and reread your post.

After following this saga from when the slippery slide down the slope started to accelerate, observing the Inquiry and the Hearing, I am now tending to agree.

It's not often you get to see a master in action.

I had lunch with my Stormer mate today. Yep, he's pretty much shattered. He's going through a very dark time and the strain is really starting to show. He's really blaming himself for the whole debacle. He's drifting and really doesn't know where this is going to end. I don't think he's going to be in a good state shortly if a resolution is not forthcoming.

It's great for Mr Norris to say he's "not proud", whatever that really means. It's unfortunate the principals appear to have such poor recall. It's sad that some Stormers are at a low ebb.

But it's refreshing to see that momentum is building, I'm sure that the lessons learned from this event will benefit the future. I truly hope that all Stormers keep that fire burning and do not stop until they reach that resolution they so desperately seek.

Garpal Gumnut said:

I might even approach the Financial Planners Association to get meself a license.

Click to expand...

gg, was that you that registered www.iStorm2_0.com with ICANN ?

"Bank of Queensland says no advice offered on Storm"

"THE Bank of Queensland has attacked key elements of the first lawsuit filed by a former client who lost her life savings in the Storm Financial collapse.

In a defence filed yesterday in Brisbane Supreme Court, the bank hit back hard against allegations raised last month by Helen Rubin, a former school teacher who borrowed $184,000 in 2005 to invest with Storm."

More by Anthony Marx in The Courier Mail here;

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26157143-3122,00.html

Solly said:

gg, was that you that registered www.iStorm2_0.com with ICANN ?

Click to expand...

Solly mate, lol, all this exposure to the rich and not gullible like the Cassimatises has toned your humour.

You can have iStorm mate.

Actually I've registered iToast2_0.com.

It will operate out of Manny's old building in Sturt St.

The logo will be.

iToast2_0.com Finance.
Get Done like Toast
FPA Approved
Fees only 12% and
More to Pay

gg

you crack me up mr gg-that is way funny i think i could trust you more than some other advisors i know about-where do i send my bag of money in the brown paper bag?? anither week where there is alot to read and catch up with-i wish i was there to see the king and queen of the shire squirm-looks like theres heaps more to come-when i look at whats happened i now know that the most important thing is to never never never give up-i see the impact on the extended family and friends and i know all these people cant be the cause of whats gone wrong-looks like the gurus arent the computer gurus they thought they were-i know nothing about computer programs but even me thinks theres something smelly about what was going on-who wopuld run a business where you cant monitor things properly and you are supposed to be the experts-i cant wait to hear more-hey stormies hang in there i reckon we are going to see more of the you know what hitting the industrial exhaust fan real soon

chrisgee said:

you crack me up mr gg-that is way funny i think i could trust you more than some other advisors i know about-where do i send my bag of money in the brown paper bag?? anither week where there is alot to read and catch up with-i wish i was there to see the king and queen of the shire squirm-looks like theres heaps more to come-when i look at whats happened i now know that the most important thing is to never never never give up-i see the impact on the extended family and friends and i know all these people cant be the cause of whats gone wrong-looks like the gurus arent the computer gurus they thought they were-i know nothing about computer programs but even me thinks theres something smelly about what was going on-who wopuld run a business where you cant monitor things properly and you are supposed to be the experts-i cant wait to hear more-hey stormies hang in there i reckon we are going to see more of the you know what hitting the industrial exhaust fan real soon

Click to expand...

Hang in there Chris.

When I get me iToast up and going I'll only charge you 10%, not the normal 12%, because you are a good bloke.

Hang in there mate.

gg

gg, I had this piece of toast pop up out of the Hotpoint this morning. Not sure what it means but it seems fortuitous that it happened on the day you launched iToast. It looked a bit misshapen and I was just going to throw it in to the composter like I usually do with spoiled food. But then I noticed it didn't look like any piece of toast I'd seen before. I took a closer look, at first I thought I could see a vague outline of a Madonna (Madge) but alas I was mistaken, secondly I thought I could see a faint outline of a famous Nazarethian chippie holding a mitre box but again I was mistaken.

Maybe it's a sign from a higher level, I don't know but maybe it could it be considered as a basis for the trademark for your new venture. I've been staring at it on and off all day. From one angle there appears to be a element of super hero about it, maybe a financial super hero. Another angle it looks a bit cat like, you know stealthy and sneaky just what you need to be in the finance game. As the night fell and the soft rays of sunset diffused, it took on the appearance of a previous mother-in-law, frankly that was a little unsettling. I think it was the stubble.

Anyway here's the pic;

Solly said:

gg, I had this piece of toast pop up out of the Hotpoint this morning. Not sure what it means but it seems fortuitous that it happened on the day you launched iToast. It looked a bit misshapen and I was just going to throw it in to the composter like I usually do with spoiled food. But then I noticed it didn't look like any piece of toast I'd seen before. I took a closer look, at first I thought I could see a vague outline of a Madonna (Madge) but alas I was mistaken, secondly I thought I could see a faint outline of a famous Nazarethian chippie holding a mitre box but again I was mistaken.

Maybe it's a sign from a higher level, I don't know but maybe it could it be considered as a basis for the trademark for your new venture. I've been staring at it on and off all day. From one angle there appears to be a element of super hero about it, maybe a financial super hero. Another angle it looks a bit cat like, you know stealthy and sneaky just what you need to be in the finance game. As the night fell and the soft rays of sunset diffused, it took on the appearance of a previous mother-in-law, frankly that was a little unsettling. I think it was the stubble.

Anyway here's the pic;

Click to expand...

Solly,

Thanks for the toast post.

You are keeping me sane!

(not an easy task at the moment)

Solly said:

gg, I had this piece of toast pop up out of the Hotpoint this morning. Not sure what it means but it seems fortuitous that it happened on the day you launched iToast. It looked a bit misshapen and I was just going to throw it in to the composter like I usually do with spoiled food. But then I noticed it didn't look like any piece of toast I'd seen before. I took a closer look, at first I thought I could see a vague outline of a Madonna (Madge) but alas I was mistaken, secondly I thought I could see a faint outline of a famous Nazarethian chippie holding a mitre box but again I was mistaken.

Maybe it's a sign from a higher level, I don't know but maybe it could it be considered as a basis for the trademark for your new venture. I've been staring at it on and off all day. From one angle there appears to be a element of super hero about it, maybe a financial super hero. Another angle it looks a bit cat like, you know stealthy and sneaky just what you need to be in the finance game. As the night fell and the soft rays of sunset diffused, it took on the appearance of a previous mother-in-law, frankly that was a little unsettling. I think it was the stubble.

Anyway here's the pic;

Click to expand...

I'll pass on the logo for the present thanks Solly. I've had 4 mother in laws and they all merge into that one piece of toast.

The first at the top is of a toaster, where anyone who doesn't toe the line ends up, except me of course. Come Valentines Day I'll post a clearer picture of corporate governance and the dangers of not adhering to it.

It is important in any enterprise to get a Professional Association behind you, which is the FPA, the picture below the toaster on the left.

And of course one needs a board of directors who are open and opaque in their dealings with the public and any millions left in the kitty when it all goes **** up. The Board of Directors is on the bottom.

gg

Garpal Gumnut said:

I'll pass on the logo for the present thanks Solly. I've had 4 mother in laws and they all merge into that one piece of toast.

The first at the top is of a toaster, where anyone who doesn't toe the line ends up, except me of course. Come Valentines Day I'll post a clearer picture of corporate governance and the dangers of not adhering to it.

It is important in any enterprise to get a Professional Association behind you, which is the FPA, the picture below the toaster on the left.

And of course one needs a board of directors who are open and opaque in their dealings with the public and any millions left in the kitty when it all goes **** up. The Board of Directors is on the bottom.

gg

Click to expand...

gg, your outfit is looking more and more reputable by the minute, I'm giving Whittakers a big miss now, especially since I found out CBA bought St Andrews.

I suppose as you grow you'll need all the trappings. When your are looking for the corporate jet, I suggest you give the Beechcraft a miss, go for something a little bigger and with more punch and range. I believe there's a couple of QF 744s heading for Mojave soon. I'm sure you could do a deal with Big Al, maybe even negotiate a dry lease. I know a couple of old drivers that would be interested. I think their suspensions are almost served and may soon be allowed in oz airspace.

Solly said:

gg, your outfit is looking more and more reputable by the minute, I'm giving Whittakers a big miss now, especially since I found out CBA bought St Andrews.

I suppose as you grow you'll need all the trappings. When your are looking for the corporate jet, I suggest you give the Beechcraft a miss, go for something a little bigger and with more punch and range. I believe there's a couple of QF 744s heading for Mojave soon. I'm sure you could do a deal with Big Al, maybe even negotiate a dry lease. I know a couple of old drivers that would be interested. I think their suspensions are almost served and may soon be allowed in oz airspace.

Click to expand...

John Travolta is the outside director, I knew his grandfather when he foist came to the Bwonx.

He will fly me anywhere I need to go.

I'd like to stay grounded though and will use the Arnage still.

iToast go.

gg

gg, It's amazing how coincidences happen. I was over at a mate's place this morning after my morning run. A Magistrate has deemed he doesn't need his car for a while and he has converted his Titan Goldstar into student accommodation. I've never met a more focused motivated bunch and they tell some great yarns about life on the Subcontinent. I'm not sure if 15 people living in a shed actually complies with local by-laws but I'm sure Councillor Clark would admire his entrepreneurial spirit. My mate does own white shoes and these are still seen to be worn quite often even away from the yacht clubs down this way.

It's hard to see the shed from the road as the neat row of Porta-loos obstructs a direct view, along with the former Tarago cabs parked out the front. These guys are pretty switched on and are really into computer programming even though they are studying for their Bachelors of Computer Games, I'm sure it wouldn't be a big leap into developing a Financial Services monitoring program package. After all you just need a good looking splash screen, a semi-functional GUI, dashboard reporting with needles and dials that spin, flash and point. I'm sure these guys have a good understanding of managing data in relational database management systems, their copy of SQL:2008 even looks legit. They seem to be sharp with Java as well and I even saw a couple that looked like that they could sort columns in Excel and one could even concatenate cells. You can even get some flash looking docs from the templates in Publisher, just pinch some logos from the web and populate with some random data from the beta version of the program. Colour laser printouts also give that professional looking edge especially with the dashboard snapshot and bar graphs.

So if you are looking for a Financial Services monitoring program package that you can present to clients I'll get their email address maybe they can help out for a reasonable fee. I know they are anxious for functional air conditioning and would certainly be fair negotiators. They really don't play World of Warcaft all of day but that doesn't explain why they have a 1 Gig interface on their switch, I'd didn't think you could get this speed on a HFC cable drop.

I suppose you'll need to give this program a good catchy name. Got any ideas? Maybe something like Foolyoumore or Suckyoudry. A believable name always adds an air of authenticity.

Solly said:

gg, I had this piece of toast pop up out of the Hotpoint this morning.

Anyway here's the pic;

Click to expand...

Sensational looking toast there. Unbelievable!