The banks are not the police for all the wood ducks that get them self in trouble, the banks lend money to ANYONE, it is up to the borrower to pay it back its not the banks job to police this.
Not in my wildest imagination would I ever claim the banks are squeaky clean - I dislike them intensely and I'd be very surprised if they're entirely blameless in the Storm debacle.
But the bulk of the blame is with the incompetent and unscrupulous Cassamatis and the unscrupulous salesmen/women who worked for Storm.
Even with all the bad advice and ridiculous levels of gearing, most Storm clients would have been OK if Cassamatis had taken the precaution of moving them to cash well before the market fell so far that their positions were beyond salvation.
It's not as if the market folded overnight as it did in the 1987 crash. This time it went down in a relatively sedate manner. Cassamatis was well aware of what was happening and he had plenty of time to take defensive action on behalf of his clients.
He has no excuses....apart from the lies he's invented.
The banks are not the police for all the wood ducks that get them self in trouble, the banks lend money to ANYONE, it is up to the borrower to pay it back its not the banks job to police this.
So your premise is that the customer says they earn this much and the Bank accepts it as long as there is enough security to cover the debt? Even for prime, full-doc loans?
Banks have a duty of care to ensure they deal with loan applications diligently and prudently when assessing a client's capacity to repay, that is why they are treated differently to pawn brokers.
It's fair to say that all lenders will write some bad loans over time, if they don't they are not doing their job properly but to write upwards of 1000 (as is the case with the CBA) with the same characteristics points to a failure of systems, policy and perhaps ethics.
Ralph Norris has acknowledged as much, the BoQ is yet to own up to that reality.
The banks went on the paper work that was given to them, if that paper work was wrong, is that the banks fault???. Now what you should be going after is the ones who handed in that paper work that was so wrong. I don't blame the banks or storm, I blame the sales people, and the wood ducks that was to thick to see it coming.
So Julia who's fault is that? if I ask the bank for one hell of a lot of money, it should be up to me to be able to pay it back, now if I cant do that, then the bank has Evey right to close me down. The banks are no different to a hock shop, if you don't pay the loan back they sell your goods, and thats how it should be.
Probably right, but at the risk of sounding very pro-banks, these checks should be to protect the banks and their shareholders. The checks may provide protection for the borrower against themselves, but this is not the reason for them.
People have to take responsibility for borrowing money. The banks shouldn't have to shoulder this responsibility because they are the lenders.
No, they are not. It is not the responsibility of the banks to supervise financial advice from a private company.The banks are a 'party to the offence'. they enabled Storm's flawed model to run. They are just as much to blame.
Exactly. I just don't believe any of us are really in a position to make categorical assertions about the culpability of the banks until more information is made public.So your premise is that the customer says they earn this much and the Bank accepts it as long as there is enough security to cover the debt? Even for prime, full-doc loans?
Banks have a duty of care to ensure they deal with loan applications diligently and prudently when assessing a client's capacity to repay, that is why they are treated differently to pawn brokers.
It's fair to say that all lenders will write some bad loans over time, if they don't they are not doing their job properly but to write upwards of 1000 (as is the case with the CBA) with the same characteristics points to a failure of systems, policy and perhaps ethics.
Ralph Norris has acknowledged as much, the BoQ is yet to own up to that reality.
Exactly. I just don't believe any of us are really in a position to make categorical assertions about the culpability of the banks until more information is made public.
Robert Ewen Day, 65, will be one of Victoria's oldest prisoners after being jailed on Friday for 11 years over the eight-year fraud.
The deception took place between 1996 and 2004 while Day operated Grove Conveyancing Services, which had offices in Geelong and Werribee.
Sentencing him in Geelong, Victorian Supreme Court Justice Jack Forrest said Day's actions of deliberate dishonesty caused heartache and misery to many of his friends and clients.
"Some have been utterly devastated by your actions,'' he said.
"Others not so drastically affected have, nevertheless, suffered significant degrees of anxiety and stress.
"The parliamentary inquiry into the collapse of Storm Financial may be forced to subpoena the Townsville-based company's founder, Emmanuel Cassimatis."
Inquiry chairman Bernie Ripoll says;
"I must say I am disappointed that Emmanuel Cassimatis has decided not to put in a submission or, in his words, postpone a submission because there's a current inquiry going on through ASIC."
As Anastasia linked before from the ABC;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/31/2641851.htm?site=northqld
Thanks for further links to submissions, Solly. There is undoubtedly the same theme running through all of these which makes it clear Storm had just the one model for everyone and no plan for a market downturn.
I'm still blown away by the level of borrowing by some of the clients.
theres a lot to read again this week-i tried to read the submissions the stories are all too familar-gee mr c may be forced to front the enquiry that will be good to see- i wonder what gems we will hear from him- i see mr gg thinks that some people may end up in the big house-yes that would be good if theres been any criminal stuff going on -if they are guilty i hope they end up doin time and end up locked up with a cosy big hairy boyfriend for a few years-that will sort them out- i hope there is a light at the end of the tunnell soon-i know i cant comment on things and offers being made but i really hope everybody at least gets there house back-everybody joined this mob hoping that it would make things easier and better for themselves and families when you dont know much about money stuff- youd reckon you could trust the banks and finance people who say they can help you out. the big lesson out of all of this is not to trust any bugger in anything until you understand it yourself- books librarys and the net are easy cheap ways to learn a lot-and when you need help start asking bloody questions and dont stop until you are happy with the answers-it saves a lot of pain-end of my rant!
theres a lot to read again this week-i tried to read the submissions the stories are all too familar-gee mr c may be forced to front the enquiry that will be good to see- i wonder what gems we will hear from him- i see mr gg thinks that some people may end up in the big house-yes that would be good if theres been any criminal stuff going on -if they are guilty i hope they end up doin time and end up locked up with a cosy big hairy boyfriend for a few years-that will sort them out- i hope there is a light at the end of the tunnell soon-i know i cant comment on things and offers being made but i really hope everybody at least gets there house back-everybody joined this mob hoping that it would make things easier and better for themselves and families when you dont know much about money stuff- youd reckon you could trust the banks and finance people who say they can help you out. the big lesson out of all of this is not to trust any bugger in anything until you understand it yourself- books librarys and the net are easy cheap ways to learn a lot-and when you need help start asking bloody questions and dont stop until you are happy with the answers-it saves a lot of pain-end of my rant!
chrisgee, keep questioning everything, never sign up to anything you don't fully understand. I hope you get your house back but you may get even more. A determination under Section 50 of the ASIC Act may even be considered.
It's a rough time for Stormers, I again had a lunchtime chat with one. It's not pleasant to hear the anguish, to see the stress and observe the pain. For Stormers there is no magic wand, no miracle elixir but never give up in seeking a remedy to your situation.
Dig in, stand firm and take whatever action it takes to better your predicament. Never fold, give in or accept an outcome that is less than what you deserve.
Indeed but the entire reason you go to School/Uni is to get an education, to go on to get a job. The main reason you get a job is to earn money. You then spend you whole life working to earn money. I would expect EVERYONE to want to spend a modicum amount of time understanding something they invest 50+ years of their life working towards ie earning money. I can't know everything but that's why I never bothered to learn how to lay a concrete slab, or work a chainsaw, or weld, or fix a car. I didn't spend my entire life working towards having one. If the Car craps itself, I will catch a taxi or ride a pushbike, inconvenient but no big deal. Some smooth talker cons me out of all my money through self imposed naivety, it's much more then an inconvenience. I am sure I fall in about the middle of the IQ bell curve, so you don't need to be the sharpest tool in the shed to work that out.
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