Storm Financial Group

[Garpal Gumnut]

The money spiders have disappeared. on the SICAG site.

I'd guess that someone not connected with ASF has suggested this.

See my previous posts on.

Storm advertising on SICAG site................gone
Money spiders........................................gone

The last to go will be the crap advice to see Financial Advisers who don't charge upfront fees as Storm did, but put the wood ducks into crap investments and charge 7% when you can do it for 0.00% through Comsec.

And after that we will get disclosure about SICAG.

How many ordinary victims are on the Committee.
How may Financial Advisers are on the Committee
How many ex Storm advisers e,g O'Brien Jnr and Jelly are advising them.

gg

 

[maccka]

when you can do it for 0.00% through Comsec.

GG,

Just wondering mate...

Why do you think any ex-Storm investor would go near CommSec when it is associated with CBA?

cheers
Maccka

 

[Ironhalo]

Funny that. I have never had a drama with CommSec as I believe they are a seperate entity to the Margin Lending division.

I have made more money courtesy of CommSec then Storm ever came close to making me.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

GG,

Just wondering mate...

Why do you think any ex-Storm investor would go near CommSec when it is associated with CBA?

cheers
Maccka

Once greed overcomes fear they will be back to CBA/WBC/ANZ/BOQ/MQG or someother. Some may have never left. Ask Manny where he banks mate

gg

 

[darkside]

The money spiders have disappeared. on the SICAG site.

I'd guess that someone not connected with ASF has suggested this.

See my previous posts on.

Storm advertising on SICAG site................gone
Money spiders........................................gone

The last to go will be the crap advice to see Financial Advisers who don't charge upfront fees as Storm did, but put the wood ducks into crap investments and charge 7% when you can do it for 0.00% through Comsec.

And after that we will get disclosure about SICAG.

How many ordinary victims are on the Committee.
How may Financial Advisers are on the Committee
How many ex Storm advisers e,g O'Brien Jnr and Jelly are advising them.

gg

Ah yes , i had 2 goes at reading the content on their site, 1st and last , because the "money spiders" made it near on impossible, will have another look now the crawley spiders have gone..

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

The money spiders have disappeared. on the SICAG site.

I'd guess that someone not connected with ASF has suggested this.

See my previous posts on.

Storm advertising on SICAG site................gone
Money spiders........................................gone

The last to go will be the crap advice to see Financial Advisers who don't charge upfront fees as Storm did, but put the wood ducks into crap investments and charge 7% when you can do it for 0.00% through Comsec.

And after that we will get disclosure about SICAG.

How many ordinary victims are on the Committee.
How may Financial Advisers are on the Committee
How many ex Storm advisers e,g O'Brien Jnr and Jelly are advising them.

gg

Funny that. I have never had a drama with CommSec as I believe they are a seperate entity to the Margin Lending division.

I have made more money courtesy of CommSec then Storm ever came close to making me.

Ah yes , i had 2 goes at reading the content on their site, 1st and last , because the "money spiders" made it near on impossible, will have another look now the crawley spiders have gone.

Yes the money spiders have gone.
The Storm ad has gone.

Hey these guys are starting to look more Professional.
However they still leave the disclaimer about Manny at the bottom of the page, where few go, as its such a crap site, you'd never navigate to the end.

Perhaps the Cassimatis disclaimer should be at the TOP of THE SITE.

gg

 

[bunyip]

Did anyone see the programme last night on SBS about the boom of the roaring 20's and the subsequent 1929 stock market crash?

There were many similarities with the boom from early 2003 to late 2007 and the subsequent 2008/09 crash.

The banking system in the 1920's was largely unregulated, allowing for the creation of new financial products designed to appeal to investors.
Adventurous lending policies meant that much of the investment in the stock market was with borrowed money. Margin lending was rife, with many investors borrowing several times the net worth of their assets to invest in the market.
The reckless level of borrowing was fuelled by easy credit and an almost unshakeable belief that the market would keep going up.

Stock market exuberance gripped the country, with every man and his dog investing in stocks. Some of the more astute financial analysts and investors saw what was coming, and gave repeated warnings for at least a year before the crash. They were mostly ignored.
Joe Kennedy, father of the future US president JFK, commented that...'When the shoe shine boys know as much about stocks as I do, maybe it's time to get out of the market'. Kennedy did exactly that.

When the crash finally came, banks called in margin loans and investors were wiped out en masse, including many who were formerly multi millionaires.
(I imagine that investors cried foul and bad-mouthed the banks for foreclosing on loans, just like they're doing this time around.)
A severe recession followed as the economy collapsed and employment soared out of control. The recession deepened into what is now know as 'the great depression'.
Thousands of banks were wiped out - 2000 US banks went broke in 1931 alone.
When Franklin Roosevelt became US president in 1933, he introduced measures to regulate the banking system so as to avoid a repeat of the boom/bust cycle.

Does any of the above sound familiar? Isn't it all very similar to the boom from 2003 to late 2007, followed by the devastating market crash of 2008/09?
Like President Roosevelt back in 1933, President Obama is now introducing regulation back into the US banking system in an effort to avoid another boom/bust cycle.
You wonder why regulation was ever removed from the banking system in the first place. Or whether it will be removed again one day, leaving the door wide open for the whole boom/bust cycle to be repeated.

Does anyone still believe Manny Cassmatis and certain SICAG members who claim that the 20008/09 financial meltdown and market crash were unprecedented?

 

[darkside]

Bunyip , yes i was watching it , and found it quite good, it certainly explained a lot of things that i never knew went on behind the scenes, alas , during one of the commercial breaks i closed my eyes for 2 seconds and fell asleep , when i woke SBS were up to their usual, of showing naked people for no other reason than they can , mind you i didn't shut my eyes then .

I will be down loading the stockmarket story and watching it again when i am more awake, may even have another peak at the art show after as well.

 

[DocK]

Reminds me of some song lyrics. From the Hilltop Hoods - Audience with the Devil:

Chorus
Sitting with the devil, this is what I learned,
Apart from the ways a human soul can be burned,
It’s that though we learn from our mistakes we’re condemned,
To make those same mistakes again and again,
Sitting with the devil, this is what I learned,
Apart from the ways a human soul can be burned,
It’s that though we learn from our mistakes we’re condemned,
To make those same mistakes
again and again,
again and again,
again and again,

again and again.

Or for the older forumites - Everything Old is New Again!

 

[bunyip]

Reminds me of some song lyrics. From the Hilltop Hoods - Audience with the Devil:

Chorus
Sitting with the devil, this is what I learned,
Apart from the ways a human soul can be burned,
It’s that though we learn from our mistakes we’re condemned,
To make those same mistakes again and again,
Sitting with the devil, this is what I learned,
Apart from the ways a human soul can be burned,
It’s that though we learn from our mistakes we’re condemned,
To make those same mistakes
again and again,
again and again,
again and again,

again and again.

Or for the older forumites - Everything Old is New Again!

Yeh, the same mistakes are destined to be repeated from one generation to the next....human nature guarantees it.

In my last post I said 'employment soared out of control'. I did of course mean to say that unemployment soared out of control.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

From the SICAG site

A Storm is Coming! …



Some people have confused the graphic that was here as being a business card for Storm Financial.



It was a photo of a sign that had been erected on a proposed building site prior to the melt-down.



The signs message seemed prophetic given the events that have subsequently unfolded but should in no way shape or form be construed as being some sort of support for or endorsement of Storms or its founders.

Lets hope they put the Cassimatis disclaimer at the top of the site otherwise the Stormers may get ripped off by the next generation of Mannies.


gg

 

[Ironhalo]

The latest SICAG email update hit my friends today...no surprise there is not ONE mention of any media comment towards Manny.

Here are some excerpts, seriously guys, I know you are trying to achieve justice, but it's time to turn one barrel of the 12 gauge on Storm for a change. I applaud the social work SICAG is achieving, but WHY won't you turn ANY attention on the Cassimatis's? An explanation is owed:

It is necessary to make a comment in regard to two connected issues that potentially will cause most concern in the process of reaching a satisfactory conclusion to this dispute. The bank in its rhetoric is unmistakeably implying that it should be understood that the share market had suffered unprecedented falls and that they will not willingly be responsible for addressing losses as a result. The other connected issue is the question of who was responsible for managing our margin loans and making the margin calls in the face of a ‘tanking market’. Members will be aware that the bank has been sheeting the blame entirely back to Storm and to the clients on this question. However we feel sure that members will be unanimous in their belief that despite the market volatility, the investment model they invested in which was conducted in a ‘joined at the hip’ relationship by Storm and CBA, under no circumstances should it have allowed their financial wellbeing, along with their lives to be totally decimated. For the bank to maintain the stance that their Terms and Conditions are legally binding and that this entitled them to sit on their hands and do nothing while watching their clients be destroyed, for no other reason other than that they simply could, will by any standard of unconscionable conduct be unsustainable in the face of intense negotiations.

That's great, now where's the pressure on Manny? Why is he sitting but 20km away and you guys with your presence are doing nothing to ask him where it all went awry?

The bank managers who were too good to be true

Duncan Hughes

The mystery of how two BoQ managers outdid all their peers may be unlocked by the Storm inquiry.
Being the top-performing branch in Bank of Queensland's 215-strong national network is no small feat. But doing it two years in a row earned a stream of accolades for Declan Carnes and Matthew Buchanan, the owner-managers of Bank of Queensland's North Ward branch on the outskirts of Townsville. Carnes was the celebrated branch manager of the year in 2006 for achieving sales three times budget, and Buchanan shared the glory from the unprecedented pinnacle of back-to-back top performances. Chief executive David Liddy was gushing: the two owner-managers "represent the bank's five core values - passion, achievement, courage, integrity and teamwork - and this is reflected both in their growing customer base and their branch's amazing financial performance". Not everyone was enraptured. "Bank management was always running around telling other branches that we could do it like the North Ward," said Jeff Jones , a former Bank of Queensland branch manager who has been involved in finance for 30 years.
"But they would never tell us how they did it." The branch's "amazing" financial performance is under scrutiny as part of a seven-month criminal and corporate investigation into the collapse of Storm Financial by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, a federal parliamentary inquiry and a pending legal action by former customers. The Storm disaster has ensnared Bank of Queensland and Commonwealth Bank of Australia, the two lenders with the strongest ties to the Townsville-based financial advisory firm that collapsed in January, sinking thousands ofcustomers in hundreds of millions of dollars of debt. For months, despite mounting evidence of dodgy loan applications, both banks stood their ground that they had done no wrong. The mess Storm clients were in was solely due to the failed firm's advice and of the clients' own making. "I believe the situation they got themselves into is their responsibility," CBA chief Ralph Norris said in February. But last week - just before the inquiry's first public hearing and following ASIC's suggestion that it could use its own powers to force a settlement for Storm clients - Norris recanted. In an extraordinary about-face Norris admitted his bank had identified shortcomings in lending to Storm clients and promised to put things right. This week he went even further, agreeing to work with law firm Slater & Gordon, which is representing 1300 clients, to implement an accelerated resolution process and bringing in former High Court judge Ian Callinan as an independent arbitrator. Liddy dug in. After months of fobbing off detailed inquiries from TheAustralian Financial Review about Bank of Queensland's involvement and exposure Liddy finally went on the record on Thursday to clarify what the bank called "significant misinformation". There was no evidence of improper or dishonest practices or conduct, no evidence of misleading or deceptive conduct, no proceedings from Slater & Gordon and no formal investigations from ASIC, the bank said in a 15-point rebuttal aimed at soothing investor concerns about any costly fallout. ASIC demanded a rebuttal of the rebuttal, which Bank of Queensland was forced to issue on Friday afternoon. His comments that it was not facing any legal action were pilloried by lawyers and former investors.

According to the bank, there are about 319 customers who were associated with Storm with aggregate loans of about $105 million. It would not comment on other Bank of Queensland branch managers' claims that the vast bulk, if
not all, came from the North Ward branch. Through its franchise model the bank pays owner-managers initial, or
upfront, commissions of about 0.5 per cent and trailing commissions of some 0.15 per cent, on loans. Based on the bank's numbers that would mean in the four years to the end of 2008 the branch earned about $1 million in
commissions from bank loans alone. But former managers, like Jones, claim the branch at its peak was generating
loans of between $20 million and $30 million a month, massively inflating commissions. The bank would not comment. According to Storm's former national development manager, Ron Jelich, whohas provided lengthy statutory declarations to the parliamentary inquiry, the North Ward branch and Storm headquarters had worked "hand in glove" for several years. "I have accounts from three former Townsville Storm staff that Buchanan was in their office every day," Jelich said. Buchanan referred questions to the head office, which refused to comment. Carnes would not comment. The AFR has previously reported on several cases of former Storm clients who
claimed they were unaware that they had taken out Bank of Queensland loan and remortgages because all the paper work was handled by Storm advisers.

This is all well and good, and I commend SICAG on trying to find answers. The question is, why aren't SICAG looking for the obvious answers from the guy who is actually responsible and lives but 20km away in Belmont behind iron gates?

The bias is really getting old.

 

[Ironhalo]

Storm advisor training sessions:

http://www.fukung.net/v/149/management.jpg

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Storm advisor training sessions:

http://www.fukung.net/v/149/management.jpg

? SICAG

gg

 

[Solly]

I had a drink with a non SICAG Stormer yesterday, I thought he's a bit fragile at the moment and maybe not really sure which way things will go.

He's not very glowing in his assessment of his own abilities in picking wealth creation strategies, financial advisers or banks.

He's facing 20 years of work to buy his house back if things don't go well with the actions against the various parties. He'll be able to enjoy owing it again in his seventies.

I asked the leading question about who he thought was responsible for his predicament. I must admit I was expecting good spray about EC & the company but his main concern was why the Banks lent him money. He had a long history with his financial adviser, MLC and the Comm Bank.

I've know this guy for over 20 years, a straight down the line regular trusting Aussie. I wasn't fully aware of his toxic exposure to Storm until it all went pear shaped and it was too late. He and his wife are doing it tough at the moment but as he said, not as tough as some other Stormers.

The stress on him is really starting to show he's looking a bit gaunt and greyer but the one thing that struck me was his attitude. He says he got himself into this, so he's the one that's going to get himself out.

When we parted I wished him good luck in getting back to an even keel, he thanked me but he said luck will have nothing to do with it.

Gotta admire that.

I hope he posts some updates here.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I had a drink with a non SICAG Stormer yesterday, I thought he's a bit fragile at the moment and maybe not really sure which way things will go.

He's not very glowing in his assessment of his own abilities in picking wealth creation strategies, financial advisers or banks.

He's facing 20 years of work to buy his house back if things don't go well with the actions against the various parties. He'll be able to enjoy owing it again in his seventies.

I asked the leading question about who he thought was responsible for his predicament. I must admit I was expecting good spray about EC & the company but his main concern was why the Banks lent him money. He had a long history with his financial adviser, MLC and the Comm Bank.

I've know this guy for over 20 years, a straight down the line regular trusting Aussie. I wasn't fully aware of his toxic exposure to Storm until it all went pear shaped and it was too late. He and his wife are doing it tough at the moment but as he said, not as tough as some other Stormers.

The stress on him is really starting to show he's looking a bit gaunt and greyer but the one thing that struck me was his attitude. He says he got himself into this, so he's the one that's going to get himself out.

When we parted I wished him good luck in getting back to an even keel, he thanked me but he said luck will have nothing to do with it.

Gotta admire that.

I hope he posts some updates here.

All true mate,

My mate who was the subject of the first post on this thread is on zerloft from his doc, and is a shadow of his former self.

He still believes in Manny and is a SICAG believer, though not a member.

They reckon the old Manny could sell bibles in a brothel.

Charisma mate, charisma.

gg

 

[bunyip]

Storm advisor training sessions:

http://www.fukung.net/v/149/management.jpg

LOL....Good to see a man whose retained his sense of humour even after getting stormified!

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Wise advice for Storm investors from the Sydney Morning Herald.

http://business.smh.com.au/business...ponzipacking-spivs-20090703-d7qu.html?page=-1

gg

 

[bunyip]

Wise advice for Storm investors from the Sydney Morning Herald.

http://business.smh.com.au/business...ponzipacking-spivs-20090703-d7qu.html?page=-1

gg

Some great advice on there eh Garpal!

Every boom/bust teaches the same lessons....1929, 1987, 2008/09, and various other significant boom/busts.
But the lessons are forgotten by many by the time the next boom/bust cycle rolls around.

I particularly liked the following extracts from the link you posted.

4. Tread warily with debt and avoid it if at all possible.When it comes to stocks, debt is an accelerant. It turbocharges those gains when the market is running hot. But during the inevitable crash, it will destroy you.

The most you can lose with your own money is 100 per cent.

With debt, you can lose a hell of a lot more. Just ask anyone who invested with Storm Financial or who was enticed by banks offering margin loans for shares. When the property market falls, banks rarely call in a loan or ask you to top up the security. With shares, they don't hesitate.

5. Do your own research. Don't rely solely on financial advisers. Some are good. But many know little more than you and, even worse, are putting your money into things that pay them the biggest commission, not the biggest return for you. They earn commissions even when you are going down the gurgler.

Fees and commissions were one of the biggest rorts of the boom years. And not just for advisers. Macquarie, Babcock and all the property trusts sucked in your cash, loaded up with debt and then paid themselves handsomely.

The more they borrowed, the more they spent, the bigger their fee. And those big fat dividends they paid you? They borrowed the money for them as well.

 

[bunyip]

Amid the repeated claims from EC, some banks, and some folks in SICAG that the 2008 slump was unprecedented, I thought it appropriate to post the following article on this forum. It appears to have been written during the boom leading up to the 2008 market crash.
It refers to the US market - the corresponding slumps in the Australian market may have been more or less than the US figures, but would nevertheless have been significant.
I'm not sure why the 1987 crash isn't included among the worst ten crashes.

........................................................................................................................................

In the midst of the three-year bull market that everybody around the world has been enjoying, it is worth getting a perspective of the kind of losses that are possible on the stock market. Most of the 10 crashes below happened over more than one year rather than in short durations (such as the 1987 Black Monday) but were no less painful for those involved. In fact, slow deaths are often more painful. The ranking and data were obtained from a financial article on About.com titled "Worst Stock Market Crashes" written by Dustin Woodward, and considers only those stock market crashes after 1900. A trivial noted by the author: 6 out of the top 11 crashes started in either September or November.

Some personal notes about the crashes:
1) It is interesting to note that all but two of the 10 most severe crashes happened in the early part of the 20th century, which suggests that either the economy has acquired more sophisticated self-correcting mechanisms or that the Federal Reserve's economic management has worked well in recent times.
2) 5 of 10 have been in periods leading to war, during war and even after war (1919-21), with another (2000-02) at least partly due to imminent and limited war (terrorist, Iraq). Political problems weigh heavy on the market more than anything else.
3) Two of the four most severe crashes have been linked to the Great Depression, and there was a whole 2 decades where a secular bear haunted the economy. This is the kind of long-term gloominess that can kill off the spirit of the last bulls.

For those who think this is an inauspicious article, read no further.

10th Worst Stock Market Crash: 2000 - 2002
Key events: Tech bubble bursting, September 11th terrorist attack

Date Started: 1/15/2000
Date Ended: 10/9/2002

Total Days: 999
Starting DJIA: 11,792.98
Ending DJIA: 7,286.27
Total Loss: -37.8%

9th Worst Stock Market Crash: 1916 - 1917
Key events: US being drawn into World War 1

Date Started: 11/21/1916
Date Ended: 12/19/1917

Total Days: 393
Starting DJIA: 110.15
Ending DJIA: 65.95
Total Loss: -40.1%

8th Worst Stock Market Crash: 1939 - 1942
Key events: World War 2, attack on Pearl Harbour

Date Started: 9/12/1939
Date Ended: 4/28/1942

Total Days: 959
Starting DJIA: 155.92
Ending DJIA: 92.92
Total Loss: -40.4%

7th Worst Stock Market Crash: 1973 - 1974
Key events: Vietnam war, Watergate scandal

Date Started: 1/11/1973
Date Ended: 12/06/1974

Total Days: 694
Starting DJIA: 1051.70
Ending DJIA: 577.60
Total Loss: -45.1%

6th Worst Stock Market Crash: 1901 - 1903
Key events: Assassination of President William McKinley; a severe drought causing alarm about US food supplies

Date Started: 6/17/1901
Date Ended: 11/9/1903

Total Days: 875
Starting DJIA: 57.33
Ending DJIA: 30.88
Total Loss: -46.1%

5th Worst Stock Market Crash: 1919 - 1921
Key events: Followed a post war boom, bursting of the first big tech bubble- the automobile sector (but after bottoming, this decade saw tremendous growth in the stock market and the economy, often called the roaring twenties)

Date Started: 11/3/1919
Date Ended: 8/24/1921

Total Days: 660
Starting DJIA: 119.62
Ending DJIA: 63.9
Total Loss: -46.6%

4th Worst Stock Market Crash: 1929
Key events: End of the roaring twenties, and kicked off the Great Depression

Date Started: 9/3/1929
Date Ended: 11/13/1929

Total Days: 71
Starting DJIA: 381.17
Ending DJIA: 198.69
Total Loss: -47.9%

3rd Worst Stock Market Crash: 1906-1907
Key events: The "Panic of 1907" due to a credit crunch in New York, as well as gloom due to President Roosevelt's antitrust drive

Date Started: 1/19/1906
Date Ended: 11/15/1907

Total Days: 665
Starting DJIA: 75.45
Ending DJIA: 38.83
Total Loss: -48.5%

2nd Worst Stock Market Crash: 1937-1938
Key events: Legacy of Great Depression, war scare and Wall street scandals

Date Started: 3/10/1937
Date Ended: 3/31/1938

Total Days: 386
Starting DJIA: 194.40
Ending DJIA: 98.95
Total Loss: -49.1%

Worst Stock Market Crash: 1930-1932

This is the grand daddy of them all. Investors lost 86% of their money over this 813 day beast. This market crash combined with the 1929 crash, makes up the Great Depression.

If you had $1000 on 9/3/1929 (beginning of the 4th worst crash, it would have gone down to a whopping $108.14 by July 8th, 1932 (end of the worst crash) or an 89.2% loss. To recover from a loss like that, you would have to watch your portfolio go up 825%! The full recovery didn't take place until 1954, 22 years later!

Date Started: 4/17/1930
Date Ended: 7/8/1932

Total Days: 813
Starting DJIA: 294.07
Ending DJIA: 41.22
Total Loss: -86.0%