Speed Cameras - Contesting them

[insider]

Hello ASFers... I'd like this thread to be about basically contesting fines given to you by the nasty speed camera... I may have been booked by a flashless camera... Are there road conditions that or anything that you can say that will get you off the hook?

We all know that speed cameras don't save lives because after all you don't even know about it for a month...

 

[ice]

Just curious, but why would you think you've been booked, unless you were speeding?


ice

 

[2020hindsight]

Insider, because of the delay in getting photos in the mail, I've heard of cases where you get three photos in the mail over three consecutive days, and a month later, your "show cause why licence etcetc" . Certainly people have challenged the details of accuracy of cameras, frequency of calibration, etc, and successfully so - but I personally dont have details

 

[insider]

Yes I was speeding... it's not fair that I catch up to slow drivers driving in the right lane when they should be in the left and when I need to over take them because they're breaking the law in the first place (you must keep left) and the safest way would be to speed up to get around them sooner... for those few seconds you get fined... how about those 5 slower cars? why aren't they fined? They're holding up cars, causing tail gating, creating speed variations that could result in an accident because after all speed doesn't kill it's speed variance...

It's BS and you know it... fines should be given out once you have lost your all points on the license because if you lost them all then you really deserve to be punished... That's how it should be... PI$$ED OFF

 

[Driver]

Who'd have thought my first post to ASF would be non-stock related...

Anyways, my tips FWIW:
- make some detailed notes about exactly what happened
i.e. day, date, time, location, weather, lighting, number of other vehicles nearby, any nearby speed signs, number of warning signs, etc etc
- you might need to have a reason as to why you remembered all these things (if this goes to court) - i.e. going to all the trouble of remembering these details isn't the norm (esp if you weren't speeding)
- i'd suggest writing a letter FWIW once you receive your infringement notice (it's never worked for me, but has for a couple of friends)... something along the lines of "sorry, first time offence... i believed I was travelling within marked limits etc etc. Don't admit to anything, you aren't going to stand up and say in court
- consider hiring a lawyer...

My tale of woe with a lawyer was contesting a speeding ticket - supposedly doing 149 in a 110 zone (driving down to Canberra). At the time, I denied travelling that fast - I said I was doing 130... and ended up hiring a lawyer & taking it to court. After about $10K, 12months & a lot of wasted angst - on the day of court the police (before the hearing) agreed to reduce the charge to 130... I was not happy....

But I did learn a few things - my lawyer recommended & we ended up getting a forensic radar specialist to review the location - there are quite a few things that can affect a radar reading - if there is a bigger vehicle (like a truck) nearby, that can be picked up as doing the speeding, but you get pinged. Also, signs & some other structures can cause deflections that cause inaccurate readings....

My advice re: lawyer, is find someone that deals with traffic matters mainly - and see if they can give you a fixed price for what is involved - a friend of mine who was in a similar position at a similar time (she was booked rushing back to Bathurst), and hired a local lawyer that charged her $800 for a similar result.


Good luck

 

[Julia]

With the road toll as it is, they are getting pretty tough about speeding these days.

No, it might not seem reasonable, and it's probably true to say that speed of itself is not necessarily a problem. But it's simply not possible, I suppose to pass judgement on every individual situation so there have to be the dreaded rules for everyone. You make a good point about slow drivers in the right lane. This drives me insane.

How much is the fine? Can you justify hiring a lawyer for a situation which is unlikely to be changed re a fine anyway, unless you can demonstrate clearly why you had a good reason to exceed the limit or you can prove that the speed limit was not exceeded (not likely of course.)

I had an instance some years ago in NZ. Driving from Dunedin to Christchurch around lunchtime on a Sunday and going through a tiny town in Otago, Pop around 300, nothing open, not a soul about. The road was deserted. I had Wagner's Tannhauser playing at high volume and had driven the stretch of road hundreds of times. Evenually became aware of flashing lights in the rear vision mirror, pulled over and turned the music down, allowing the roar of the cop's siren to be heard. An apopleptic policeman leapt out of his car and yelled at me that he had been following me with siren and flashing lights for five kilometres. He was pretty upset. I explained that I hadn't heard the siren and had only just noticed the lights. This seemed to make things worse instead of better. He was furious. I guess he didn't even get to use the lights and the siren very often and expected them to be immediately obeyed.

Anyway he booked me for "dangerous driving" which meant possible loss of licence. I found a lawyer and it went to court. I got a very large fine, but saved my licence. Speed was 160 in a 100km area.

Good luck.

 

[2020hindsight]

Doesn't work so well for speed cameras, but handy for highway patrol cars ...I'm sure you've heard the one... " officer , now that you've pulled me over, I have to say ... I was waiting at a red light and this motorcycle policeman beside me dropped this $20 out of his pocket.. By the time I got out and picked it up he was a couple of hundred yards ahead. I was trying to catch up to him when you flagged me down .. If you see him before I do , then maybe you could pass it on to him for me please

Julia :- I had Wagner's Tannhauser playing at high volume

Julia, I'm surprised he didnt through the book at you for disturbing the peace !!
As they say Wagner had some wonderful moments ..

and some horrible half-hours

 

[theasxgorilla]

Insider, the only solace I think you'll find is to invest in RDF. You should feel better in the knowledge that your capital is growing in RDF thanks to traffic infringements by other poor suckers in the United States of America.

 

[CanOz]

Insider, the only solace I think you'll find is to invest in RDF. You should feel better in the knowledge that your capital is growing in RDF thanks to traffic infringements by other poor suckers in the United States of America.

Great point.

Its like a hedge! You could do the same with rising petrol costs, bank fees etc.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em! I like it G'rilla.

Cheers,

 

[GreatPig]

Insider,

You have to look at the situation realistically. The government is only interested in the money, and they set the rules, so they try and make sure there's little chance of missing out on the cash.

If you write to the infringement place they'll most likely just tell you they don't have the power to do anything (although they have let me off other small infringements occasionally). Still, I always write anyway. If nothing else it puts back the payment deadline.

Next option? Go to court, with all the extra costs, time hassles, and potential lawyers fees to deal with.

So it's a great scam. Fine people, disallow practically any excuse - valid or otherwise, and make the only real option (the courts) more expensive and a major hassle. Then find the optimum level of fine such that it brings in lots of revenue but is not so high that people will find it worth the cost and effort of taking through all the court hoops to challenge it.

If they really want to stop speeding, it's dead easy: a $1m fine, 10 years jail, and speed cameras at regular intervals on every road. I could almost guarantee then that there wouldn't be many speeders on the road after a short period of time. However, the government would never want to do that, as it would reduce their revenue to almost nothing (and probably cost them too much in housing all the extra inmates).

There's a law of diminishing returns at work here, where total revenue will eventually start to drop off as the fine is made higher, as people will actually start to avoid speeding and also start to challenge more of the fines. The trick (for the government) is to find the value that maximises total revenue.

GP

 

[ice]

Just pay the bloody fine and move on.

In trading terms treat it as a stop/loss to be taken early and at the least possible cost so that you can put it behind you and move on to the next trade.


ice