Sexual harrassment

[moXJO]

Harvey Weinstein used actresses and actresses used him.
Hollywood industry is a cesspool. Everyone knew and it wasn't until his power started to wane, that he was finally called out. The guy was a disgusting pig, and all of them let it happen to further their own careers.

In the real world this stuff is thankfully declining.

 

[IFocus]

Fascinating. And I wonder what the far right thought about the repeated sexual assaults of Bill O Reilly and the Head of Fox News ?

This issue goes across politicl party spectrums. It's a power issue, an entitlement issue and a culture that finds it exceptionally hard to deal with the sociopaths who manage to become powerful people.

That point has been well made by Sir Rumpole and Gringott. It's worth exploring.

Thinking the same no one side has the high moral ground here the Democrats were called out for the slow response but they did turn up eventually but plenty of the same from the Republicans.

It was extraordinary that Trump got up and was supported by a significant number of the Christian vote guess the same could be said about Bill Clinton etc.

Men in positions of power have long abused women then the mob turn up howling righteously how the women knew what they were in for.

 

[basilio]

And just for a bit of light relief and perhaps alternative Hollywood views on "hitting on people"

 

[basilio]

Good story in The Atlantic from another actress/writer who Weinsten harrassed.

It's all about money.


Harvey Weinstein and the Economics of Consent
The blunt power of the gatekeeper is the ability to enforce not just artistic, but also financial, exile.

• Brit Marling

When the Harvey Weinstein story broke, I thought of something my mother told me when I was a little girl. She said: To be a free woman, you have to be a financially independent woman. She wasn’t wrong. I studied economics in college and went to New York to become an investment banker. To be blunt, I wanted the freedom money can buy.

I had a sudden change of heart while working at Goldman Sachs as a summer analyst. I decided that if the world required me to sell the hours of my life in exchange for access to what had long ago been free—food, water, shelter—I wanted to at least be doing something that stirred my soul. This is, granted, a privileged position. But as a young woman that was the conclusion I came to.

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...einstein-and-the-economics-of-consent/543618/

 

[PZ99]

Dangerous people. Can we think of an example in international politics ?

Yeah...
Electricity Clinton > "How was it for you?"
Monica > "Electric Blue!"

thankyouverymuch

 

[basilio]

Some really interesting subtle points towards the end of this story. Jonathan notes how sensitive we are in offices and social situations when we notice bosses just giving a look or raising an eyebrow...


On sexual harassment we men need to be clear: the problem is not women, it’s us

Jonathan Freedland
It’s not good enough for men to complain that it’s all too complicated. In fact it’s very simple


‘The Westminster accusations have prompted a set of questions that have also been put to women rather than men.’ Photograph: Alamy Stock Photo

Shares
58



@Freedland

Friday 3 November 2017 19.19 GMT Last modified on Friday 3 November 2017 20.00 GMT

So much rubbish has been spoken by so many men about sexual harassment that it’s hard to nominate a winner. But a strong contender in a crowded field is surely Rick Perry, the US energy secretary who, when running for president, famously forgot which government department he wanted to close (it was, naturally, the department of energy).

Perry’s contribution to the debate now raging on both sides of the Atlantic – kickstarted by the revelations about Harvey Weinstein and which has now taken down several media bigwigs, along with Kevin Spacey and Michael Fallon – was to suggest the answer to sexual assault might be … fossil fuels. Perry’s logic was that electricity in African villages can give “light that shines the righteousness, if you will, on those types of acts”. It seems a street lamp powered by a renewable source would lack a similar degree of virtue.

Perry’s remarks are unlikely to find much of an echo. Louder, and more dispiriting, has been the chorus of voices, not all of them male, whose first reaction to the revelations of abuse, humiliation and assault by powerful men has been to decide that there is a series of tough questions that need to be answered – by women.

It’s hard to think of another scandal where the finger has been pointed so swiftly at the victims rather than the perpetrators

With Weinstein it was: why didn’t these women speak out earlier? Why did Hillary Clinton accept donations from this monster? (A question that was scarcely put to Barack Obama, even though he took twice as much money from Weinstein.) What were these women doing in a man’s hotel room anyway?

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ictims-confront-culprits-men-exploiting-power

 

[Tisme]

Good story in The Atlantic from another actress/writer who Weinsten harrassed.

It's all about money.


Harvey Weinstein and the Economics of Consent
The blunt power of the gatekeeper is the ability to enforce not just artistic, but also financial, exile.

• Brit Marling

When the Harvey Weinstein story broke, I thought of something my mother told me when I was a little girl. She said: To be a free woman, you have to be a financially independent woman. She wasn’t wrong. I studied economics in college and went to New York to become an investment banker. To be blunt, I wanted the freedom money can buy.

I had a sudden change of heart while working at Goldman Sachs as a summer analyst. I decided that if the world required me to sell the hours of my life in exchange for access to what had long ago been free—food, water, shelter—I wanted to at least be doing something that stirred my soul. This is, granted, a privileged position. But as a young woman that was the conclusion I came to.

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...einstein-and-the-economics-of-consent/543618/

I really don't understand how the free press writes about about a bunch of people who make a living out of obfuscation and lying as if what they say is factual.

This latest event is a typical Jewish woke misogynist getting his marching orders by the Yiddish old boys and using their Jewess actress harem to deliver the goods.

Who cares.

 

[basilio]

Interesting twist in the tail of this story. Go to the source and read to the end to see how the writers mother is a part of this story.

I didn't understand how widespread rape was. Then the penny dropped
David Graeber
I’m a lefty academic versed in feminist theory. Still, I rebelled against the idea that rich and powerful men regularly rape or attempt to rape women


Shares
9605

Sunday 5 November 2017 11.00 GMT Last modified on Sunday 5 November 2017 16.26 GMT

This is a very difficult column for me to write because it’s about my mother.

A week or two after the then IMF director Dominique Strauss-Kahn was arrested for sexually assaulting a chambermaid in a posh New York hotel in 2011, there was another case when an Egyptian businessman was briefly arrested for a similar assault at another such New York hotel.

This first struck me as puzzling. It could hardly be a copycat crime; considering the drama surrounding the arrest and travails of DSK, it was inconceivable that anyone would see this and say: “Oh good idea, I’ll attack a chambermaid as well.”

Then it dawned on me.

The only logical explanation was that businessmen, politicians, officials and financiers rape, or attempt to rape, hotel workers all the time. It’s just that normally, those assaulted know there’s nothing they can do about it.

In DSK’s case, someone – for whatever complex political reasons – must have refused to make the usual phone call. There was a scandal. As a result, when the next assault took place, the survivor must have said to herself, “Oh, so does this mean we actually are allowed to call the cops now if a customer tries to rape us?” and acted accordingly. And sure enough this is precisely what turned out to have happened. (In the end, both women were silenced, and neither man convicted of any crime.)

What I really want to draw attention to here is my initial reaction of disbelief: “Sure things are bad; but it can’t be that bad.” Even a lefty academic versed in feminist theory instinctively rebelled against the idea that rich and powerful men regularly rape or attempt to rape the women cleaning their rooms, that this happens all the time, that everyone in the hotel industry knows it happens (since they must know), and that those rich and powerful men in turn know they could get away with it because if any woman they attacked did protest too strenuously, everyone would move in lockstep to do whatever was required to make the problem go away.

It’s of course this very disbelief that allows such things to happen. We are loth to accept people we might know might practice pure, naked aggression. This is how bullies get away with what they do. I’ve written about this.

Bullying is not just a relation between bully and victim. It’s really a three-way relation, between bully, victim and everyone who refuses to do anything about the aggression; all those people who say “boys will be boys” or pretend there’s some equivalence between aggressor and aggressed. Who see a conflict and say “it doesn’t matter who started it” even in cases where, in reality, nothing could possibly matter more.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...xual-assault-feminism-weinstein-casting-couch

 

[moXJO]

A lot of dirty bastards out there capitalizing on the wants of young girls.
Drugs , money , fame...... take your pick and some girl is willing to lift her skirt.

 

[basilio]

A lot of dirty bastards out there capitalizing on the wants of young girls.
Drugs , money , fame...... take your pick and some girl is willing to lift her skirt.

Maaybeeee.... I think the the overriding issue here is people using their power and position to force themselves on women.

The story I quoted above had nothing to do with starlets lookig for opportunity. It was hotel maids being attacked on the premise that they wouldn't be believed if they protested because... .. they were maids and he was a big shot.

 

[moXJO]

Maaybeeee.... I think the the overriding issue here is people using their power and position to force themselves on women.

The story I quoted above had nothing to do with starlets lookig for opportunity. It was hotel maids being attacked on the premise that they wouldn't be believed if they protested because... .. they were maids and he was a big shot.

Maaybeeee.... I think the the overriding issue here is people using their power and position to force themselves on women.

The story I quoted above had nothing to do with starlets lookig for opportunity. It was hotel maids being attacked on the premise that they wouldn't be believed if they protested because... .. they were maids and he was a big shot.

Theres usually a tradeoff.
The Guardian is generally full of witch-hunts and truth stretches.

Most guys with money won't risk blowing themselves up for a quick rape. Why would you? I'm sure there are a few cases, but making out like its an epidemic is farfetched.

 

[basilio]

Theres usually a tradeoff.
The Guardian is generally full of witch-hunts and truth stretches.

Most guys with money won't risk blowing themselves up for a quick rape. Why would you? I'm sure there are a few cases, but making out like its an epidemic is farfetched.

Nuh.. you don't have to believe The Guardian. Maybe it's worth reading a few other analysis and trying to get a handle on why first a couple and then a dozen and then thousands of women are saying they have been harrassed/assaulted.

 

[moXJO]

Nuh.. you don't have to believe The Guardian. Maybe it's worth reading a few other analysis and trying to get a handle on why first a couple and then a dozen and then thousands of women are saying they have been harrassed/assaulted.

Harrassed I believe.

 

[basilio]

How long does one have to read all the allegations made agaianst Harvey Weinsten ? These are only the first few. Totally toxic. And in no way just a bit of harrassment.

The Weinstein allegations
A list of the accusations made against Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein, who has denied many of the allegations

Last updated 4 hours ago

I told him no. I kept pushing him away. He just wouldn’t listen. He just forced himself on me. Hope Exiner d'Amore
Age 20s Year: 1970s Location: Park Lane Hotel

Ms. Exiner d'Amore alleges that Weinstein raped her, forcibly performing oral sex and intercourse after slipping into bed next to her naked. Source: The New York Times

The way he forced me made me feel really bad about myself. What are you going to do when you are a girl just trying to make it as an actress? Nobody would have believed me. Cynthia Burr
Age Early 20s Year: Late 1970s Location: Unspecified apartment building in New York

Weinstein allegedly kissed Ms. Burr, then an actress, in an elevator, before unzipping his pants and forcing her to perform oral sex on him in the hallway. Source: The New York Times
He tried to encourage me by telling me what a fantastic opportunity it was for me to be part of this project. Paula Wachowiak
Age 24 Year: 1980 Location: Unspecified hotel in New York state

Intern Wachowiak was invited to Weinstein's hotel room where he exposed himself and asked for a massage Source: The Buffalo News

Mr Weinstein was quite calm about trying to explain to me that if I would at least take my top off, this would demonstrate to him that I wasn’t going to be shy about doing so in front of the cameras. Tomi-Ann Roberts
Age 20 Year: 1984 Location: Unspecified hotel in New York

Weinstein invited Roberts to his hotel room to discuss a script, but was nude in the bathtub when she arrived. Source: Democracy Now

He pushed me inside and rammed me up against the coat rack in my tiny hall and started fumbling at my gown. He was trying to kiss me and shove inside me. It was disgusting. Lysette Anthony
Age Mid 20s Year: Late 1980s Location: Anthony's home in London

Weinstein turned up at Anthony's home, later buying her a coat that she saw as an apology Source: Sunday Times
https://www.theguardian.com/film/ng-interactive/2017/oct/13/the-weinstein-allegations

 

[moXJO]

How long does one have to read all the allegations made agaianst Harvey Weinsten ? These are only the first few. Totally toxic. And in no way just a bit of harrassment.

The Weinstein allegations
A list of the accusations made against Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein, who has denied many of the allegations

Last updated 4 hours ago

I told him no. I kept pushing him away. He just wouldn’t listen. He just forced himself on me. Hope Exiner d'Amore
Age 20s Year: 1970s Location: Park Lane Hotel

Ms. Exiner d'Amore alleges that Weinstein raped her, forcibly performing oral sex and intercourse after slipping into bed next to her naked. Source: The New York Times

The way he forced me made me feel really bad about myself. What are you going to do when you are a girl just trying to make it as an actress? Nobody would have believed me. Cynthia Burr
Age Early 20s Year: Late 1970s Location: Unspecified apartment building in New York

Weinstein allegedly kissed Ms. Burr, then an actress, in an elevator, before unzipping his pants and forcing her to perform oral sex on him in the hallway. Source: The New York Times
He tried to encourage me by telling me what a fantastic opportunity it was for me to be part of this project. Paula Wachowiak
Age 24 Year: 1980 Location: Unspecified hotel in New York state

Intern Wachowiak was invited to Weinstein's hotel room where he exposed himself and asked for a massage Source: The Buffalo News

Mr Weinstein was quite calm about trying to explain to me that if I would at least take my top off, this would demonstrate to him that I wasn’t going to be shy about doing so in front of the cameras. Tomi-Ann Roberts
Age 20 Year: 1984 Location: Unspecified hotel in New York

Weinstein invited Roberts to his hotel room to discuss a script, but was nude in the bathtub when she arrived. Source: Democracy Now

He pushed me inside and rammed me up against the coat rack in my tiny hall and started fumbling at my gown. He was trying to kiss me and shove inside me. It was disgusting. Lysette Anthony
Age Mid 20s Year: Late 1980s Location: Anthony's home in London

Weinstein turned up at Anthony's home, later buying her a coat that she saw as an apology Source: Sunday Times
https://www.theguardian.com/film/ng-interactive/2017/oct/13/the-weinstein-allegations

Your point being?
Pretty sure Weinstein being a rapist is already out there.

 

[greggles]

There must be a lot of nervous entertainment industry professionals and politicians out there. It seems almost every couple of days there is another one being accused of sexual harassment. The Harvey Weinstein expose appears to have been the catalyst for the current round of allegations. A lot of people settling old scores. The damage this is doing to some people's careers may spark the beginning of a culture shift in certain industries. Those people who thought they could bully and intimidate victims into silence may begin to realise that this is a very risky proposition indeed, possibly a career ending one.

 

[SirRumpole]

There must be a lot of nervous entertainment industry professionals and politicians out there. It seems almost every couple of days there is another one being accused of sexual harassment. The Harvey Weinstein expose appears to have been the catalyst for the current round of allegations. A lot of people settling old scores. The damage this is doing to some people's careers may spark the beginning of a culture shift in certain industries. Those people who thought they could bully and intimidate victims into silence may begin to realise that this is a very risky proposition indeed, possibly a career ending one.

They sent Rolf Harris to gaol for similar, but in my view lesser offences, so Weinstein may be for it. How the US jurisdiction treats such allegations may be different to the UK courts.

 

[Tisme]

They sent Rolf Harris to gaol for similar, but in my view lesser offences, so Weinstein may be for it. How the US jurisdiction treats such allegations may be different to the UK courts.

What Jew being judged by Jew Judge and 12 man Jewry? Surely you can't get more justice than that!!!

 

[basilio]

Has anyone here been "concerned" about the upcoming office Christmas party? Just a bit worried that their efforts at a bit of slap and tickle could be taken badly and the sexual harrassment line would echo across their life into enternity. .. (almost..)

Well fear not. There is an excellent article which examines just this conundrum and eventually comes up with the most brilliant advice for even the most muddle headed, red hot xoooter.

Putting it very simply.

"The lesson here is that if you do have romantic feelings (or whatever..) about a female colleague at a Christmas function - or in any work context, for that matter - imagine she's the CEO of your company. She has the power to fire you and blacklist you in the industry.

Are you still willing to do what you're about to do?

If the answer is yes, then it's probably fine. If the answer is no, then shut your mouth, keep your hands to yourself and walk away."

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/lif...e-office-christmas-party-20171119-gzoky4.html

 

[SirRumpole]

If the answer is yes, then it's probably fine. If the answer is no, then shut your mouth, keep your hands to yourself and walk away."

We know that alcohol does away with reason, so I doubt if people will be asking that question when half pi$$ed. I can see the situation coming when there will have to be teetotal chaperones at Christmas parties to ensure proper behaviour and men will need a signed consent form to avert any action afterwards.