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Sexual harrassment

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Very true SR, I wonder how many women are Not famous because they said No. If every woman had said No then merit would decide who got the role.

It also raises the question of how many women that are famous are only famous because they said Yes.

History shows that women have been using "charm" to get their way forever but I still find it sad.

Perhaps it is caused by our genetically programmed need to breed, nature does not care about civilized rules, it just wants us to procreate as often as possible.

I have six granddaughters, it is something that is of concern.
 

This is really, really disturbing and sad...
We have the situation where a noted High Court Judge is called out by multiple women for groping, sexual aggression whatever. The incidents are historical and until no fear of losing their positions has meant everyone bit their tongue.

Finally the dam breaks. The hidden abuse of power is exposed. And yet the response on ASF is

1) Well maybe women have been "using their charms" to get ahead or
2) How do we know any women who got ahead in their profession did so on merit at all ?
 

"Some" men are sexual harrassers, they deserve all they get.

"Some" women use sexuality to get ahead. I don't think you can deny that it happens, it's been happening for centuries.
 
SirRumpole said:
"Some" women use sexuality to get ahead. I don't think you can deny that it happens, it's been happening for centuries.
Click to expand...

Like all of these debates it comes down to context.

Nobody would deny that a stripper is doing exactly that surely.

Nobody would expect a lawyer to be using that approach.
 

Given that I was referring to the women "who were given roles" surely it would suggest that I am talking about the entertainment industry.

I am not surprised that the legal profession would have grubs as well, in days gone by a Uni degree was also an excuse for an inflated ego and the old boys club secerecy was even stronger than today.

I don't think that taking advantage of power is ever a good thing, I have been anti bullying all my life and had a few scraps with bullies to prove it when younger.

When in business my staff were always aware that should anyone sexually harass them that they should tell me directly, not through their supervisors.

By the same token, I can assure you that plenty of women sort favours from me by "using their feminine wiles" over the years, back then it was called flirting.

As I said before I have six granddaughters, nothing would suit me better than they have the opportunity to progress in the world without sexual harassment.

That said, I think it highly likely one of them will be flirt, it is part of her nature, hopefully it doesn't get her into strife later on
 
sptrawler said:
You don't think sexual favours, are used in the upper echelons of society?
Click to expand...

I've no doubt at all that they are.

My basic thought though is that a stripper or sex worker is doing it blatantly and nobody would sensibly deny that, it goes with the job, whereas a decent lawyer should be able to succeed without going down that track. That doesn't mean they won't do it, just that they should be able to get somewhere without doing it in practice. Worst case they might need to change employers.

That said, well I know someone who'd never deny having ensured the gentlemen she did business with understood their prompt agreement and signature would bring them much pleasure.

For the record I never had business dealings with her (true story).
 
Smurf1976 said:
Like all of these debates it comes down to context.

Nobody would deny that a stripper is doing exactly that surely.

Nobody would expect a lawyer to be using that approach.
Click to expand...
It would be really naive or immature to even believe that an attractive woman would not use her charm just because it is a professional environment or against a vague code of conduct
 
Worked with a lot women (engineers mainly) never once seen or heard any use their female attractions to gain flavor quite the opposite saw incompetent males get higher pay, promotions etc over the girls who as a rule were better at their roles.

If I wanted clever solutions I usually went to the girls and that was right across all disciplines.
 

Female engineers huh. So they never batted their mustaches seductively at you?
 
qldfrog said:
It would be really naive or immature to even believe that an attractive woman would not use her charm just because it is a professional environment or against a vague code of conduct
Click to expand...

I should clarify that the woman I've referred to was doing it to advantage her business dealings but not to gain employment etc in a professional environment.

No laws were broken, it was just another tool in the box for negotiation. A way to get their signature on a contract in a timely manner.

We met at a political meeting back in the 1990's for the record.
 
moXJO said:
Female engineers huh. So they never batted their mustaches seductively at you?
Click to expand...

Haha actually most were attractive even the Mechanical Engineers maybe I got on so well cause I was a "chic magnet" .....like yourself .

Some of the Asian girls were insanely clever doubled everyone's work load.
 
IFocus said:
Haha actually most were attractive even the Mechanical Engineers maybe I got on so well cause I was a "chic magnet" .....like yourself .

Some of the Asian girls were insanely clever doubled everyone's work load.
Click to expand...
Yep it's hard being handsome.

I find Asian women are extremely clever and hard working.
 
Another high profile in these Modeling world has been accused of sex abuse by many of the models he employed.

'What he was doing was in plain sight': more ex-models accuse Gérald Marie of sexual assault

Another seven women come forward with allegations about the former Elite boss
www.theguardian.com

... Donaldson recalled telling her London agent, Ziggi Golding, at the time about what had occurred with Marie. Golding confirmed that conversation with the Guardian. She said she chose not to affiliate her agency, Z, with Paris Planning because Marie’s reputation as a predator was “well-known”.

Serene Cicora, 57, another agent from the 80s and 90s, also recalled “a definite pattern” in the stories she was told about Marie, adding “dozens of models told me about his predatory behaviour”.

Cicora said the sheer number of accusers, combined with what many of them say about how Marie abused his power to coerce victims, threatening their careers if they refused sex, suggests he may be “the Harvey Weinstein of the fashion industry”.
 
Is anyone else asking the question as to why some victims wait over 30 years to make allegations ?

In the latest case, the alleged perp was not a politician at the time of the event, so there was not a power relationship involved.

I'm not saying it's not true, but any evidence would no longer exist.

Same with Bill Shorten. Allegations were made but never proved.

So why bother with it now ?
 

It's never that simple is it Rumpy ? The girl was a very intelligent 16 year old school girl who was anally raped in 1988. Had a great future to look forward to and this incident shattered her.

The story didn't just come out today. Your right of course that there is no way of anyone coming up with proof at this stage. However from my reading she just didn't want this incident to be ignored and forgotten.

The history of most of these incidents is that when one allegation is raised many other victims have the courage to raise their voices. The Brittany Higgins allegations have already resulted in three other allegations. Almost all the child sex abuse cases ended up with multiple victims. The initial charges against Harvey Weinsten ended up with 80 additional incidents. A two minute interest search will highlight the fact that it seems relatively rare for these incidents to be one off behaviors.

Cabinet Minister accused of rape in letter sent to Scott Morrison, senators

The AFP have been notified after Prime Minister Scott Morrison and two senators received a letter detailing an allegation of historical rape against a Cabinet Minister.
www.abc.net.au

Sexual abuse in the American film industry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

'Sorry doesn't fix the years of suffering': Survivor of paedophile nurse angry police ignored allegations

Keelie McMahon is angry and cannot fathom why it took so long for Tasmania Police to charge a paediatric nurse with child sex offences, as complaints piled up against him.
www.abc.net.au
 
There is a much bigger story developing in Sydney around sexual assaults on young girls by young guys.

Again one girl put her hand up to open the conversation about what happened to her when she was at her elite Sydney private school. To date there are 3000 stories already documented and 23,000 signatories to a petition directed to school Principals and the Government.

It will be interesting to see what the relationship was between the woman who alleged she was raped by the current Cabinet Minister at the time.

The trouble with boys: what lies behind the flood of teenage sexual assault stories?​

Young women are being failed by a society that seems unable – or unwilling – to address rape culture and its grave consequences


Lucy Clark

@lucykateclark
Fri 26 Feb 2021 14.00 EST
Last modified on Fri 26 Feb 2021 14.02 EST


Page after page after page. Story after story after story: hundreds of them. Stories of boys raping girls, boys forcing girls to perform oral sex, boys anally raping girls, boys assaulting their girlfriends, boys assaulting girls who are unconscious, sharing the stories and the images and the videos with their friends. In one case, uploading illicitly-taken videos to a widely available pr0n website. Some girls are as young as 13. The boys are their peers.

These stories coalesced into a litany of horror over the past week as part of a petition started by former Sydney schoolgirl Chanel Contos, now 23, in an effort to convince the school principals of elite private schools in Sydney to implement consent education earlier and better.

The petition has now busted out of its eastern suburbs bubble and had, at the time of writing, grown to almost 3,000 testimonies and about 23,000 signatories from all over Australia and the world, now to be sent to MPs to convey the urgency of the situation.

....He raped me twice and they let him get away with it. What more do you need to know?’
This one-sentence testimony above was bleak in its brevity, and sharp in meaning: boys and men get away with sexual assault, this is a large part of how and why it keeps on happening. Accountability for sexual violence is so low in our justice systems – only one in 10 reported cases of sexual assault ends in conviction – and the chilling effect trickles downwards to other institutions and schools.

The trouble with boys: what lies behind the flood of teenage sexual assault stories?

Young women are being failed by a society that seems unable – or unwilling – to address rape culture and its grave consequences
www.theguardian.com
 
basilio said:
There is a much bigger story developing in Sydney around sexual assaults on young girls by young guys.
Click to expand...
Agreed but I'll broaden that by removing a few words:

"There is a much bigger story around assaults".

If it was just sexual assaults then there wouldn't be so many victims. That's not to in any way downplay sexual assault, I'm just pointing out that abuse in various forms is rife sadly and there are many victims - women, men, children, animals all cop it.
 
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