Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace

[MrBurns]

The pathetic sentences handed down by our courts are in too many cases a disgrace. I don't know why their isn't more retribution by victims and their families.

A mother of a baby girl killed by a speeding drunk driver described her heartbreak as the man who mowed them down was sentenced to a minimum 22 months jail by a Perth court.

Benjamin Alan Butler, 25, of Thornlie in Perth's south-east, ran over Tania Moorby and her 11-month-old daughter Grace as they stood in the driveway of their Thornlie home on April 18 this year.

In the District Court of Western Australia, Justice Richard Keen sentenced Butler to a total of 44 months jail - 34 months for dangerous driving causing Grace's death and 10 months for dangerous driving causing bodily harm.

He will be eligible for parole after 22 months.

Also convicted of driving under the influence, he was disqualified from driving for six years, two years for each charge, and fined $1,500.

Butler, who pleaded guilty to the charges, was driving with a blood alcohol level of 0.166 - more than three times the legal limit - at the time of the tragedy.

His lawyer John Prior told the court his client was a binge drinker who had drunk more than a dozen cans of pre mixed spirits the night before the accident.

Butler accepted that he would be jailed and was genuinely remorseful, Mr Prior said.

Before he was sentenced, Mrs Moorby drew tears from many in the packed courtroom when she read out her victim impact statement.

She and her husband Jamie had feared they would never have the family they desperately wanted because she suffered from severe arthritis.

"Grace was my life," Mrs Moorby said.

"Everything I did revolved around my little girl.

"My life will never be the same. Nothing I do is the same as it was before that day.

"Up until that moment I loved my life, now I hate it.

"I hate waking up every morning facing the day without my little Grace."

Mrs Moorby received injuries including broken ribs, bruising, shoulder and liver damage and cuts and grazes when she was struck by Butler's car.

She said the injuries had healed but her heart never would.

She said she did not hate Butler but hated his choices and actions.

"You may think that you understand the gravity of your actions. You don't. The day you hold your firstborn child in your arms you will fully understand what you have done," she said.

"All I have left are my memories and they simply aren't enough."

Instead of planning a trip to NSW for Grace's birthday to show her off, they had to plan a funeral, Mrs Moorby said.

The court was told Butler clipped another car when he accelerated heavily while still intoxicated from a binge-drinking session the night before.

"You should have been aware you were still under the influence of alcohol," Judge Keen said.

He said the consequences of Butler's actions had been devastating, but in the accident, pre-sentence and psychological reports, he had appeared to play down his involvement, Judge Keen said.

Outside the court, Butler's distressed mother told reporters "he is so sorry".

 

[MrBurns]

Re: Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace........

17 years and then they let him out to live next to, perhaps YOU ?

Why not life ??? or wasnt stabbing someone 48 times bad enough.

Teen gets 17 years for schoolgirl's brutal murder
A teenager has been jailed for at least 17 years for stabbing a 15-year-old girl to death on her way home from school.

Tania Burgess was stabbed 48 times as she took a shortcut through the grounds of the Forresters Beach Resort on the New South Wales central coast in July 2005.

 

[prawn_86]

Re: Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace........

17 years and then they let him out to live next to, perhaps YOU ?

Why not life ??? or wasnt stabbing someone 48 times bad enough.

If he wasnt trialled as an adult then he cant get life im pretty sure

 

[MrBurns]

Re: Sentencing in Australia is a disgrace........

If he wasnt trialled as an adult then he cant get life im pretty sure

He was young at the time but there are plenty of other cases where the sentence doesnt fit the crime, I'll keep posting when I see them.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Mr Burns you are not the only thinking Australia is a joke and has lost the plot.

 

[MrBurns]

Bailed ? why not lock the creep up till the Court date !!!

An 18- year old man has been charged with 15 offences following an alleged road rage incident earlier this week.

A woman had reported being threatened with a firearm on the Hume Highway at Somerton on Tuesday, after she accidentally cut off a motorcyclist.

Police arrested the man this morning and charged him with a number of offences including assault with a weapon and carrying a concealed firearm.

He has been bailed to appear at Broadmeadows Magistrates Court in January.

 

[Happy]

Mr Burns you are not the only thinking Australia is a joke and has lost the plot.

I have many questions:

Why penalty has to fit the crime, and why it could not be so severe that potential offenders would have second thoughts before committing the crime?
Why prisons are treated as rehabilitation centres rather than penalty centres?
Why prisoners are allowed to do nothing instead of contributing at least 100% to their keep?
Why we do not have mandatory linkage to previous crimes, as we can clearly see that some criminals make crime their way of life and they are just recidivists?
Why barristers take cases, know that offenders did the crime and use loopholes to get accused of the hook, don’t they have conscience?

I better stop here, as it doesn’t matter what I think or what I ask.
I too think they lost the plot or I expect too much.

 

[chops_a_must]

Why prisons are treated as rehabilitation centres rather than penalty centres?

They aren't.

There are stories here of prisoners wanting to help other prisoners to learn how to read, but are disallowed from doing so. No wonder they end up back there.

And there have been recent cases where prisoners are released without having the appropriate treatment (sex offenders) when they were having that treatment on the outside, which is a disgrace.

Why prisoners are allowed to do nothing instead of contributing at least 100% to their keep?

Most of them have jobs inside.

I too think they lost the plot or I expect too much.

Or you don't have a clue.

 

[prawn_86]

Essentially our prisons are under funded and under staffed like everything else provided by the magnificent Australian government.

The whole re-hab vs. punishment debate could probably be a new thread.

Tougher penalties and harsher sentencing along with increased death penalties in the US has had mixed effects. No-one can say for certain it reduced crime.

There is obviously something wrong on a very basic level that needs to be addressed if crime is to ever be reduced. Harsher penalties dont seem to work unfortunately

 

[MrBurns]

I have many questions:

Why penalty has to fit the crime, and why it could not be so severe that potential offenders would have second thoughts before committing the crime?
Why prisons are treated as rehabilitation centres rather than penalty centres?
Why prisoners are allowed to do nothing instead of contributing at least 100% to their keep?
Why we do not have mandatory linkage to previous crimes, as we can clearly see that some criminals make crime their way of life and they are just recidivists?
Why barristers take cases, know that offenders did the crime and use loopholes to get accused of the hook, don’t they have conscience?

I better stop here, as it doesn’t matter what I think or what I ask.
I too think they lost the plot or I expect too much.

Barristors and the Courts only deal in THE LAW - justice has nothing to do with it.

It sucks big time and lets very bad people out onto the streets giving the police more work to do.

 

[chops_a_must]

It sucks big time and lets very bad people out onto the streets giving the police more work to do.

And if the police weren't totally incompetent, the same would be the case.

There has been some fairly high profile cases of late in Perth which has let accused murderers off the hook, and makes police look worse than their stereotype.

 

[MrBurns]

Essentially our prisons are under funded and under staffed like everything else provided by the magnificent Australian government.

The whole re-hab vs. punishment debate could probably be a new thread.

Tougher penalties and harsher sentencing along with increased death penalties in the US has had mixed effects. No-one can say for certain it reduced crime.

There is obviously something wrong on a very basic level that needs to be addressed if crime is to ever be reduced. Harsher penalties dont seem to work unfortunately

Harsher penalties would work if you just locked these creeps up till someone could say with reasonable certainty that they wont re offend.

And if they cant well they just stay there ! offenders should have their "rights" recinded also, too many psycho's appealing their already ridiculously lenient sentences.

 

[MrBurns]

And if the police weren't totally incompetent, the same would be the case.

There has been some fairly high profile cases of late in Perth which has let accused murderers off the hook, and makes police look worse than their stereotype.

I sympathise with the police, how would you like to risk your life apprehending some low life only to have the judge let him out on bail or give him a slap on the wrist.

 

[prawn_86]

Harsher penalties would work if you just locked these creeps up till someone could say with reasonable certainty that they wont re offend.

And if they cant well they just stay there ! offenders should have their "rights" recinded also, too many psycho's appealing their already ridiculously lenient sentences.

No it wouldnt work. It hasnt in other countries, crime rates remain the same or higher.

It is possible that some of these people have deep seeded mental issues and actually need help rather than punishment. Im not condoning what they do, but its obvious that the current system (even with stronger penalties) doesnt work.

 

[chops_a_must]

I sympathise with the police, how would you like to risk your life apprehending some low life only to have the judge let him out on bail or give him a slap on the wrist.

I have no sympathy for police to be honest.

There are protocols they have to follow for good reason, so that they can't plant evidence. They have failed that test recently.

And I know they don't charge people if it becomes too hard, especially with traffic offences. Car went straight through a stop sign and brought me down off a motorbike, despite witnesses, no charges were laid. And the same thing happened to a friend of mine when her car was t-boned by someone going straight through a stop sign.

Nah, until they do their job properly, I wont give them any sympathy. And nor do they deserve it. Dr Death doesn't get any sympathy for incompetence, and I extend that same mindset to any one else equally incompetent.

 

[MrBurns]

No it wouldnt work. It hasnt in other countries, crime rates remain the same or higher.

It is possible that some of these people have deep seeded mental issues and actually need help rather than punishment. Im not condoning what they do, but its obvious that the current system (even with stronger penalties) doesnt work.

The crime rate may not go down much but removing certain people from society , permanently, would certainly help matters.

Some have mental issues for sure and they aren't cured by jail time, they are just "punished' not cured and let out to re offend in many cases.

Take pedophiles, they have a sexual attraction to children, what good does jail do ? they need treatment BUT they should not be let loose until cured, if no cure then no release and I'm not sure there is a "cure" for a sexual preference.

Sentencing and punishment is a huge issue thats bugged me for years.

 

[chops_a_must]

Take pedophiles, they have a sexual attraction to children, what good does jail do ? they need treatment BUT they should not be let loose until cured, if no cure then no release and I'm not sure there is a "cure" for a sexual preference.

But like I said above, what if there are not the programs inside?

Hardly fair if someone is willing to undergo that treatment, and it is not provided, that they are continued to be locked up.

 

[MrBurns]

I have no sympathy for police to be honest.

There are protocols they have to follow for good reason, so that they can't plant evidence. They have failed that test recently.

And I know they don't charge people if it becomes too hard, especially with traffic offences. Car went straight through a stop sign and brought me down off a motorbike, despite witnesses, no charges were laid. And the same thing happened to a friend of mine when her car was t-boned by someone going straight through a stop sign.

Nah, until they do their job properly, I wont give them any sympathy. And nor do they deserve it. Dr Death doesn't get any sympathy for incompetence, and I extend that same mindset to any one else equally incompetent.

The police are constrained by the courts and in the end they just go with it, they have to deal with this crap for a job, every day , cant be easy.

Nixon in Victoria has turned them into social workers, we need areal hard nose in there knocking heads together backed by a State Govt that gives a rats, Brumby is a waste of space.

BUT if there's trouble they expect the police to come and stand between them and a killer.

 

[MrBurns]

But like I said above, what if there are not the programs inside?

Hardly fair if someone is willing to undergo that treatment, and it is not provided, that they are continued to be locked up.

I still dont think there's a case for releasing a mental case thats already offended.

Gees it's 2008 cant they work it out ?

 

[Happy]

No it wouldnt work. It hasnt in other countries, crime rates remain the same or higher.

It is possible that some of these people have deep seeded mental issues and actually need help rather than punishment. Im not condoning what they do, but its obvious that the current system (even with stronger penalties) doesnt work.

I’ll digress a little; we do not have enough money to provide free travel for children to attend school.
We do not have enough money to eliminate hospital elective surgery waiting lists, nor make dental care more affordable, nor have enough police to PREVENT CRIME, nor enough money to provide higher education at better prices that it is now, and the list if almost endless, obesity, diabetics, drugs dependence not to mention that some parents are not fit to raise children (this is where most bad seeds are sprouting)

We do cull problematic animals.

And we worry so much and build more and more >rehabilitation centres< as numbers just keep growing
(We even import more and more problems from overseas – just yesterday in Adelaide, Sudanese underage refugees had a knives out day)

I read article that one day there will be not enough carers for those who need care and hard decisions will have to be made,

Until then lets pretend that nothing can be made about everything that is wrong and let the avalanche just roll into too difficult basket.