Rudderless

[condog]

Can we get a mexican wave going in his honour ?

A BIG Happy new year to Mr Rudd ....... u da man!

No offense condog but i find your posts immature .

kitehigh holds some valid argument and points and just because you may not have seen past your armchair there is no reason to trash the posts for those that do get out.

i do not agree with some parts also but happy to read it

have a great day.

So immensly more mature and contributory to the dialogue then what I was saying........Im not sure how your three brief posts add more maturity to this dialogue then what I was offering.....no offence but perhaps your level of maturity is bordering on dementure....you see how the no offence bit doesnt hide what your actually saying...apparently Im mature enough to interperet that...


Im more then happy to be a tad immature for ever....I love being around young people ...they are full of vitality, energy and enthusiasm......not for a moment would I ever wish so much maturity on someone that they take themselves too seriously and lose the ability to have a bit of fun.....if thats maturity....you can have it nun, but rewst assured I expect all your posts to be full of maturity and wisdom from now on....especially if you want to go pointing the hypocritical stick like this...

 

[nunthewiser]

yawns.

My beef was in regards to your juvenile attack on a persons opinion that was posted here ..........

I,m fine being viewed as immature as quite often i am and am happy to admit it ............ shame you cant come to terms with the fact that your attack on a poster was in a most childish and immature manner .......

Anyhoo have a niceday , cant be bothered arguing the point any further ........

 

[condog]

Kitehigh I unreseredly apologise if i offended you, that was not my intention. If you re-read my post you will see that my intention was to comicly highlight the immense irony of what you had just said....

the other hypocracey, does not warrant a response...

 

[nunthewiser]

KEVIN Rudd remains dominant and is on track to pick up Liberal-held seats in Victoria, South Australia and Queensland if he chooses to go to the polls early in a double-dissolution election.

That is the finding of a Newspoll survey, published exclusively in The Weekend Australian today, which also reveals Labor has reversed its drop in support in regional cities, returning to 53 per cent on two-party-preferred terms.

The results are an early blow to Mr Abbott's bid to woo battlers in Queensland, where Labor took eight seats from the Coalition at the last election and picked up the new seat of Flynn - more than a third of its gains nationally.

On a two-party-preferred basis Labor would win an election in a landslide, leading the Coalition with 57 per cent support to the Coalition's 43 per cent. The 14 percentage point lead the Rudd government has opened up has been largely stable since July last year and far exceeds the 5.4 percentage point margin it received at the 2007 election.

Labor continues to maintain a commanding lead in all states except Western Australia.

Labor has lifted its support in Victoria, where it now has 60 per cent voter support once preferences are distributed. Support has also increased for Labor since the election in Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia.

Satisfaction with how Mr Rudd is doing his job remains high, ranging from a low of 58 per cent in his home state of Queensland to 64 per cent in South Australia.

Yes Rudd sure looks good for the next Election ...........

 

[kitehigh]

Kitehigh I unreseredly apologise if i offended you, that was not my intention. If you re-read my post you will see that my intention was to comicly highlight the immense irony of what you had just said....

Thats the problem with the printed word, you lose a lot of the other persons intent because you can't hear tone, see body language etc etc.

I know the indigenous people suffered immensely in pretty much all the old colonies. It just that some suffered more than others as far as I can see. Imagine if the Portuguese had colonised Australia first. I bet it would be a totally different dynamic than it is now.

You're comparing Portugal's examples with Britain's best. Britain colonised many countries that are still developing or third world, such as India and about one-third of Africa. One influence may have been Britain entering her golden age in a more recent era than the other major colonial powers. Spain lost most of her empire in the early 19th Century, and Portugal had peaked by the early 17th Century.

Well I was just comparing the larger Colonies, although I should have put Angola in there instead of East Timor. Portugal didn't have any where near as many colonies as Britain.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I'd like to kick coitehigh.

He seems to have assumed sacred no go status amongst previously sane and sentient posters, apologising and genuflecting to his coiteness.

Is it because he has a brazilian??

gg

 

[Zird]

While seemingly off topic Ie the pros/cons of our dear leader it seems for me within the divergent concept of 'rudderless' or direction/less.

As to the effect of various colonial powers on subservient countries I would have to say that they were all equally vicious in terms of effect on indigenous people and all survived on some form of slavery - Australia/convicts and African slaves throughout the world.

African/Sth American/Asian colonies where ruthlessley exploited for their natural resources. IE India was a well off country before Britain sent all the wealth back home and shut down local industries, Portugal/Spain/France etc exploited Africa/Americas sending vast amounts of gold/wealth back home. All colonial powers flourished on the exploited well of other countries..

It is impossible to say who were the worst bastards. I think it impossible to say whose legacy was the least destructive re: post colonial period as none of the colonising powers had any interest in educating the population or setting up the country for real independance.
Each colony was left with so many difficulties and internal complexities that affected the post colonial development.

Australia was a lucky with it's post colonial development of which much must be attributed to British legacy of Westmiinster style Government and organisation as was America(USA). Aus & US were short lived colonies compared to say Brazil (500 years of exploitation). Maybe duration is a factor.

This is a complx issue but a few of my thoughts.

World Cup/Olympics in Brazil - will be incredible place to be - world's biggest celebration.




.

 

[kitehigh]

Hey Zird I have sent to you a pm.

 

[Zird]

Thanks Kitehigh I will go to it.
Julia I am working on my response to your last return post.

 

[Zird]

Julia, sorry for response delay.



You dont quote any number of people who you associated with but state only 2 were concerned. Can you quantify? Ie 2/2 or 2/20 etc. For me I would say about 18/20 are concerned. Maybe your associates dont care but mine do.

How come Leaders of China/America/Japan/Australia/Africa/Asia etc all say that the current rapid rate of Climate change is anthropogenic (I did not need a dictionary) but many ASFers believe otherwise.

The previous PM tried to be popular but failled miserably and lost his seat plus that of government. Rudd is liked by many.

The Lib leader is outspokenly anti abortion as is National party. There are also some dissenters in ranks.

Julia as Australia is the biggest CO2 producer/emitter per H.o P. we have a responsibilty to do something and so do the rest. We are as with all things environmental way behind advanced European standards. The EU already has a trading system.

"The European Union Emission Trading System (EU ETS) is the largest multi-national, emissions trading scheme in the world,[1] and is a major pillar of EU climate policy. The ETS currently covers more than 10,000 installations with a net heat excess of 20 MW in the energy and industrial sectors which are collectively responsible for close to half of the EU's emissions of CO2 and 40% of its total greenhouse gas emissions.[2] [3]

Under the EU ETS, large emitters of carbon dioxide within the EU must monitor and annually report their CO2 emissions, and they are obliged every year to return an amount of emission allowances to the government that is equivalent to their CO2 emissions in that year. In order to neutralise annual irregularities in CO2-emission levels that may occur due to extreme weather events (such as harsh winters or very hot summers), emission allowances for any plant operator subject to the EU ETS are given out for a sequence of several years at once. Each such sequence of years is called a Trading Period. The 1st EU ETS Trading Period expired in December 2007; it had covered all EU ETS emissions since January 2005. With its termination, the 1st phase EU allowances became invalid. Since January 2008, the 2nd Trading Period is under way which will last until December 2012. Currently, the installations get the allowances for free from the EU member states' governments. Besides receiving this initial allocation on a plant-by-plant basis, an operator may purchase EU allowances from others (installations, traders, the government.) If an installation has received more free allowances than it needs, it may sell them to anybody.[citation needed]

In January 2008, the European Commission proposed a number of changes to the scheme, including centralized allocation (no more national allocation plans) by an EU authority, a turn to auctioning a greater share (60+ %) of permits rather than allocating freely, and inclusion of other greenhouse gases, such as nitrous oxide and perfluorocarbons.[3] These changes are still in a draft stage; the mentioned amendments are only likely to become effective from January 2013 onwards, i.e. in the 3rd Trading Period under the EU ETS. Also, the proposed caps for the 3rd Trading Period foresee an overall reduction of greenhouse gases for the sector of 21% in 2020 compared to 2005 emissions. The EU ETS has recently been extended to the airline industry as well, but these changes will not take place until 2012.[4][5]


Julia, I hope this response is suitably framed in the correct language for the diplomatic exchange of views. However I retain my right to express my dissapointment at the attitudes of those that deny anthropogenic climate change exists.

 

[wayneL]

...I retain my right to express my dissapointment at the attitudes of those that deny anthropogenic climate change exists.

That's OK, so long as you accept the right of others to express their own disappointment with those who believe in the Goreist fallacy.

 

[lasty]

Recent hunger strike farmer is protesting over stolen land.
Apparently $100 billion dollars is needed to be paid for compensation in what land the govt has taken from 300,000 farmers.
Barnaby Joyce reckons it communism.
It's more like North Korea.
His only two friends are a dog and cat.

 

[noco]

Julia, sorry for response delay.



You dont quote any number of people who you associated with but state only 2 were concerned. Can you quantify? Ie 2/2 or 2/20 etc. For me I would say about 18/20 are concerned. Maybe your associates dont care but mine do.

How come Leaders of China/America/Japan/Australia/Africa/Asia etc all say that the current rapid rate of Climate change is anthropogenic (I did not need a dictionary) but many ASFers believe otherwise.

The previous PM tried to be popular but failled miserably and lost his seat plus that of government. Rudd is liked by many.

The Lib leader is outspokenly anti abortion as is National party. There are also some dissenters in ranks.

Julia as Australia is the biggest CO2 producer/emitter per H.o P. we have a responsibilty to do something and so do the rest. We are as with all things environmental way behind advanced European standards. The EU already has a trading system.

"The European Union Emission Trading System (EU ETS) is the largest multi-national, emissions trading scheme in the world,[1] and is a major pillar of EU climate policy. The ETS currently covers more than 10,000 installations with a net heat excess of 20 MW in the energy and industrial sectors which are collectively responsible for close to half of the EU's emissions of CO2 and 40% of its total greenhouse gas emissions.[2] [3]

Under the EU ETS, large emitters of carbon dioxide within the EU must monitor and annually report their CO2 emissions, and they are obliged every year to return an amount of emission allowances to the government that is equivalent to their CO2 emissions in that year. In order to neutralise annual irregularities in CO2-emission levels that may occur due to extreme weather events (such as harsh winters or very hot summers), emission allowances for any plant operator subject to the EU ETS are given out for a sequence of several years at once. Each such sequence of years is called a Trading Period. The 1st EU ETS Trading Period expired in December 2007; it had covered all EU ETS emissions since January 2005. With its termination, the 1st phase EU allowances became invalid. Since January 2008, the 2nd Trading Period is under way which will last until December 2012. Currently, the installations get the allowances for free from the EU member states' governments. Besides receiving this initial allocation on a plant-by-plant basis, an operator may purchase EU allowances from others (installations, traders, the government.) If an installation has received more free allowances than it needs, it may sell them to anybody.[citation needed]

In January 2008, the European Commission proposed a number of changes to the scheme, including centralized allocation (no more national allocation plans) by an EU authority, a turn to auctioning a greater share (60+ %) of permits rather than allocating freely, and inclusion of other greenhouse gases, such as nitrous oxide and perfluorocarbons.[3] These changes are still in a draft stage; the mentioned amendments are only likely to become effective from January 2013 onwards, i.e. in the 3rd Trading Period under the EU ETS. Also, the proposed caps for the 3rd Trading Period foresee an overall reduction of greenhouse gases for the sector of 21% in 2020 compared to 2005 emissions. The EU ETS has recently been extended to the airline industry as well, but these changes will not take place until 2012.[4][5]


Julia, I hope this response is suitably framed in the correct language for the diplomatic exchange of views. However I retain my right to express my dissapointment at the attitudes of those that deny anthropogenic climate change exists.

Zird, you don't give a mention as to how the EU, Brittain and even Canada and the USA have reduced their CO2 emissions. May I suggest you do some homework on the number of Nuclear Power plants currently in use in those arears.

As at 2005, 439 Nuclear power plants were in operation in those arears and some 54 now under construction. 70 plants alone are in operation in France. All producing zero CO2.

Perhaps you might convince our illustrious leader Mr. Rudd that Nuclear power is the way to go in Australia.

 

[Zird]

NOCO - you presume that am anti - nuclear because I express pro conservation views. I have never stated anything regarding nuclear power and in fact feel that it can be apart of a raft of measures taken to effect CO2 reduction.

Please withdraw and apologise for your unsubstantiated claim.

Wayne - why would I have a problem with freedom of expression and the right to speak and debate issues? When have i ever suggested anything else.

As above please withdraw and apologise for misrepresenting me.

 

[wayneL]

Wayne - why would I have a problem with freedom of expression and the right to speak and debate issues? When have i ever suggested anything else.

As above please withdraw and apologise for misrepresenting me.

I have misrepresented you?

How so?

What would you like me to withdraw and what what you like me to apologize for?

 

[Zird]

Your assertion is that I dont accept others right to express etc etc"

Waynel This disparaging comment of yours is so great and affected me so much I am calling in my 2nds and polishing the sidearms.

" so long as you accept the right of others to express their own disappointment with those who believe in the Goreist fallacy.

 

[So_Cynical]

Zird, you don't give a mention as to how the EU, Brittain and even Canada and the USA have reduced their CO2 emissions. May I suggest you do some homework on the number of Nuclear Power plants currently in use in those arears.

As at 2005, 439 Nuclear power plants were in operation in those arears and some 54 now under construction. 70 plants alone are in operation in France. All producing zero CO2.

Perhaps you might convince our illustrious leader Mr. Rudd that Nuclear power is the way to go in Australia.

Under certain GHG accounting policy's power produced by Nuke plants is treated as non renewable and there fore excluded from baseline GHG calculations.

 

[lasty]

Australia pollutes more co2 than anyone else in the world ?
Interesting... Considering Australia is an island surrounded by co2 sinks
also who has collected all the information on vegetation sinks?

as for the ets schemes in the EU how much reduction has it achieved ?
Australia has a land mass to redirect water ways and plant vegetation.
If Rudd believes in man made co2 then why not incrase the sinks and sell them to other polluters?

 

[wayneL]

Your assertion is that I dont accept others right to express etc etc"

Non-sequitur.

Sorry, there is no such assertion.

 

[Mofra]

Australia pollutes more co2 than anyone else in the world ?

By head of population, apparently.
Would it be glib of me here to mention out that despite all the wind and solar farms under construction in China at the moment, they are still building the equivalent of our entire coal-fired power industry every 4 months, and will continue to do so until 2020?

as for the ets schemes in the EU how much reduction has it achieved ?
Australia has a land mass to redirect water ways and plant vegetation.
If Rudd believes in man made co2 then why not incrase the sinks and sell them to other polluters?

Perhaps that is the grand vision of Mr Rudd, and he believe we need a national ETS to start bargaining for international sanctions.
In any case, it is unlikely to match the mass land-clearing Australia has undertaken since federation so I'm sure there will be developing nations blocking any attempt to give Australia any meaningful trading credits until a huge tract of land is covered with plantation first.