Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sex Abuse
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You are arguing with a Galah
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Agree about the abuse something no one here accepts I believe, Tink I haven't followed the lawyer x case so won't comment will have a read when I get a chance.
From the interview:
“It’s a little bit like Victoria,” Pell said. “You’re not quite sure where the vein runs, how thick and broad it is, and how high it goes.” Asked if police had persecuted him, Pell said: “Well I think the onus is on them, in the face of that evidence, to show why that’s not true.” I can only wonder why they're charging him yet again.
Also, regarding his point about past allegations, that he had heard stories but didn't believe them to be true (while the town ? new). Even if he were lying , his point is a good one: A religious person , or anybody, ought not to accept rumors as being true.
“It’s a little bit like Victoria,” Pell said. “You’re not quite sure where the vein runs, how thick and broad it is, and how high it goes.” Asked if police had persecuted him, Pell said: “Well I think the onus is on them, in the face of that evidence, to show why that’s not true.” I can only wonder why they're charging him yet again.
Also, regarding his point about past allegations, that he had heard stories but didn't believe them to be true (while the town ? new). Even if he were lying , his point is a good one: A religious person , or anybody, ought not to accept rumors as being true.
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Because someone has, again, brought a case to the attention of the police.
It is estimated that about one in 20 cases of sexual abuse are reported. Of that number about 20% get to court and about half result in convictions.
It's a pretty gruelling process.
As to "rumours" I know you are serious, but Pell is far from stupid and there is more chance that pigs fly than Pell not knowing the reason behind what was actually going on.
I can't argue a good point expressed in the clip. It's a well known Christian tenant that you don't believe rumors about a person unless you know it to be true . Preachers will tell you this, it's in the spiritual books, and devout Christians know this. That he was trained to act like this is believable, and that he was practicing this virtue seems entirely possible.
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Priests confess their sins so the many sins known within the Catholic hierarchy were never rumour.
To not wonder why so many unusual transfers were occurring beggars belief.
For Pell to profess ignorance is only makes sense if Pell was complicit.
This is one Cardinal who will never be elevated by the smoke of his smouldering fire.
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Lets be clear. The issues of priests interfering with children or having relations with their parishioners often arose at senior levels. The solution of just moving them on was commonplace.
It is probable that the explicit reasons for moving priests on wasn't minuted or openly discussed. That doesn't change the fact that it was well understood why Gerald Risdale was continually moved.
Career and allegations of offences
Ridsdale was born at St Arnaud in central Victoria and grew up in Ballarat.[5] It was alleged in 2013 that Ridsdale sexually abused boys as early as 1955, when he was aged 21.[6] Ridsdale took his vows in 1961.[6]
Ridsdale worked at St Alipius Primary School, Ballarat, a boys' boarding school, from 1971, where he was a chaplain. He also worked in Apollo Bay in 1972-73.[5][7] At his 1994 trial it was said that he had been sent to a psychologist as early as 1971, though the bishop of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Ballarat, Ronald Mulkearns, said he had no idea of Ridsdale's actions until 1975, when the priest was in Inglewood.[5] One parent said Ridsdale had molested their son, but they were reluctant to let the boy be questioned by police, and the priest had moved.[5] When a police officer involved with the case spoke to Mulkearns, the latter promised to handle Ridsdale but moved him on instead.[5] Operation Arcadia, a three-month police investigation into what Mulkearns knew about Ridsdale, concluded that he knew about Ridsdale's crimes earlier than he admitted.[5]
Ridsdale was moved repeatedly. In 1976 he was moved to Edenhope.[5] In 1980 he was moved to the National Pastoral Institute in Elsternwick in Melbourne.[5] In 1981 he was moved to Mortlake and at the end of 1982 he was transferred to Sydney. In 1986 he was moved to Horsham, where two people made complaints about him in 1988.[5] In 1990 he was sent to New Mexico "for treatment".[5] He returned to Australia after nine months and was appointed chaplain at St John of God Hospital in Richmond, New South Wales, on the northwestern outskirts of Sydney.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ridsdale
Full story: Father Ridsdale's life of crime — and the church's cover-up
http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/55
I have to say i'm not as familiar with Pell's past as I should be. I have numerous hobbies I suppose. However from that interview alone his explanation was a good one. And although they do confess their sins, a priest can NEVER tell anybody, so Pell couldn't have known from other confessions. It would be a mortal sin for them to reveal secrets, or even to reveal lesser venial sins. I'd need to research things, but it might have to do with some kind of vow to God that they make. A vow can make something that isn't serious, very serious.
Confession should be and must be left alone. It's good for the people, as a priest will keep their personal stuff to themselves. Also, a priest being forced to disclose any sin would have to violate his conscience. Unfortunately its resembling communism.
The practice of confession goes way back to the early Church, and is a very critical ministry in the older and traditional denominations. It simply can't be tampered with, and a priest must be free in order to practice this ministry.
The secularists shouldn't get too happy. They say that when living conditions get really bad , Christianity starts to pull in big numbers. A virus, poor living , Church persecution ... It may play out like this, but let's see.
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That's just covering up crimes in the name of religion. Something the Catholic church has had a lot of practice at over the centuries.
What is just covering up crimes?
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Did you read the history of Gerard Risdale ? That's what a life of child abuse systematically covered up by the Catholic Church looks like.
And it was repeated many, many times.
Full story: Father Ridsdale's life of crime — and the church's cover-up
http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/55
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Well, the Mafia are wonderful Catholics and contributors to their Church.
Maybe they are just misunderstood?
I confess, I am unsure.
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Do you understand Lawyer X?
The reason for confidentiality.
As I put in the ABC thread...
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/abc-is-political.23929/page-160
I would call a pedophile an animal.
What distinguishes human and animal in your world?
The reason for confidentiality.
As I put in the ABC thread...
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/abc-is-political.23929/page-160
I would call a pedophile an animal.
What distinguishes human and animal in your world?
Did you read the history of Gerard Risdale ? That's what a life of child abuse systematically covered up by the Catholic Church looks like.
And it was repeated many, many times.
Full story: Father Ridsdale's life of crime — and the church's cover-up
http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/55
Not aware of the mafia. Hope this isn't one of those Strawman arguments ...
If Rumple is referring to the seal as a means of covering up stuff, that's just ridiculous. I suppose the government will utilize that for leverage to bring the Church down. It's going to script really. It's actually all about privacy, for the sake of the penitent. Otherwise you would have priests divulging people's shameful secrets , which certainly isn't limited to criminal activity.
Nothing like embarrassing yourself a little on a regular basis . It's good for the soul . But for them to attack this critical ministry...big mistake. I suspect its origin goes back to Christ's command to "absolve" human beings, thereby utilizing human agency for reconciliation with God. It's powerful, sacred, very essential for the traditional, bigger churches. The government has decided to attack God. Their behavior is increasingly spurious. They really don't know what they're doing.
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Really?
Mafia are mostly practicing Catholics who go to the confessional and would tell of their crimes, including killings. The point is that the Catholic Church knows these things happen. Just as Pell would not be doubting what was happening because it was "rumoured." It was well known.
Moreover, it is a disgusting dereliction of duty to turn a blind eye and not even contemplate investigating such vile acts alleged to be occurring within his flock.
The reasonable inference to draw is collusion, if not complicity.
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Nice ramble but illogical.
Priests can tell about crimiaal activity, but not about "embarrassments" that's their choice. They should be treated like anyone else under the law. If an individual becomes aware of a criminal act, the law says they have to report it. Why should priests be immune from that ?
"The government has decided to attack God". The churches behaviour has become so separated from the Bible, especially the teachings of Jesus that they cannot claim to represent the Bible even for those who choose to believe that book, let alone secular society.
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??? I don't think so Redrob. Where would you get the idea the Mafia would be so Cathollic they would confess their sins ?
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??? I don't think so Redrob. Where would you get the idea the Mafia would be so Cathollic they would confess their sins ?
They do, then they shoot the priest.
It was pretty funny though.??? I don't think so Redrob. Where would you get the idea the Mafia would be so Cathollic they would confess their sins ?
Believing rumors would be incompetent. Regarding Pell's other past conduct , or the complete aspects of this part , I'd need to catch up on some news first to comment. But confessors certainly wouldn't be telling one another of criminal activity, or anything in the confessional, as it's forbidden. The point is, you don't mix two law systems together (canon law and secular law). You don't say , "Hey secular world, come and take control of our institution". Your idea or strategy would be preety foolish, to say the least.