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Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sex Abuse

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And fair enough Rumpy, the trauma on the victims is horrendous and finally building up the courage to come forward makes it totally unlikely that it was concocted.

Was interesting that Pell's defence had set up a video scenario of what took place and where in the hope to prove it was not possible to have taken place in the setting described by the victim/complainant. I would contend and the authorities/court would be aware that the victim's only real memory (due to the horror) would be the event and not the precise spot within the building where it occurred.

However the video in not being accepted as admissible is a prime part of the appeal application.
 
One of the most sacred principles in our society; innocent until proven guilty

That is how it should be, not the other way round.

Knobby, I was going to post that article as well.

@McLovin brought up a while back about 'judge only' trial.

Victoria does not have that though other states do.
 
I never take anything Andrew Bolt offers as factual without independent, verifiable evidence. So I put his eloquent waxing about how he believes Cardinal Pell was wrongly convicted in the same bin as almost everything else he says.

In this case however it is far more serious because his column is attacking the courts, complainant and jury which spent considerable effort examining all the evidence as fairly as possible.

There is one person who can speak with more authority about sex abuse by priests than most. Check out her analysis of Andrew Bolts contribution to this discussion.

Andrew Bolt, please stop implying that you know all the facts about George Pell
Clare Linane, whose husband Peter Blenkiron is a survivor of clerical child abuse, writes in response to Andrew Bolt’s defence of George Pell

I am a Ballarat local who has been living with the aftermath of child sexual abuse for many years. My husband, Peter Blenkiron, is a survivor of clergy abuse at 11-years-old. You met him whilst in Rome three years ago.

I am compelled to write to you after you expressed your opinion that George Pell has been falsely convicted. You are entitled to your opinion.

What concerns me, however, is your statement that your opinion is based on “overwhelming evidence”. I believe this is misleading, irresponsible and ignorant. Your lack of genuine insight into the issue of sexual child abuse makes a mockery of survivors and all they have endured.

The “overwhelming evidence” you mention includes some of the following points which I would like to respond to in an attempt to help educate you about this issue:

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...that-you-know-all-the-facts-about-george-pell
 
And Cardinal Peel hasn't escaped his other accusers ...

George Pell to be sued over alleged 1970s sexual abuse in Ballarat
Man was a complainant against disgraced cardinal in a second trial that was abandoned, and says ‘when I was told they had withdrawn the case I felt empty’

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...d-over-alleged-1970s-sexual-abuse-in-ballarat

__________________________

Meanwhile the verdict in the Cardinal Pell case has resulted in many people who have been abused reliving their nightmares.

Support services inundated since George Pell's conviction
Counsellors say defence of cardinal in the media has been distressing for people affected by child sexual abuse
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...vices-inundated-since-george-pells-conviction
 
I read that Bas compelling article worth a read.





basilio said:
I never take anything Andrew Bolt offers as factual without independent, verifiable evidence. So I put his eloquent waxing about how he believes Cardinal Pell was wrongly convicted in the same bin as almost everything else he says.

In this case however it is far more serious because his column is attacking the courts, complainant and jury which spent considerable effort examining all the evidence as fairly as possible.

There is one person who can speak with more authority about sex abuse by priests than most. Check out her analysis of Andrew Bolts contribution to this discussion.

Andrew Bolt, please stop implying that you know all the facts about George Pell
Clare Linane, whose husband Peter Blenkiron is a survivor of clerical child abuse, writes in response to Andrew Bolt’s defence of George Pell

I am a Ballarat local who has been living with the aftermath of child sexual abuse for many years. My husband, Peter Blenkiron, is a survivor of clergy abuse at 11-years-old. You met him whilst in Rome three years ago.

I am compelled to write to you after you expressed your opinion that George Pell has been falsely convicted. You are entitled to your opinion.

What concerns me, however, is your statement that your opinion is based on “overwhelming evidence”. I believe this is misleading, irresponsible and ignorant. Your lack of genuine insight into the issue of sexual child abuse makes a mockery of survivors and all they have endured.

The “overwhelming evidence” you mention includes some of the following points which I would like to respond to in an attempt to help educate you about this issue:

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...that-you-know-all-the-facts-about-george-pell
Click to expand...
 
Junior said:
How was it?
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A number of witnesses said that Pell had a pattern of pedophile behaviour beyond that which was bought out in the recent trial.

I never had much respect for him as a person, I though he was very arrogant and dismissive of complainants but I thought that laying charges after such a long time period was a bit unfair.

Now I think he got what he deserved.
 
Quite damning of the Cardinal's character that 4Corners program last night. The witnesses all seemed believable
 
SirRumpole said:
Pell's barrister Richter quits.

Sore loser, sinking ship , or has the money run out ?
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Richter is an excellent barrister, with a count out sore of <3 losses in his entire career, which is impressive.
He is just upset that he could not defend the indefensible, the case that was almost unlosable. Don't blame him, the church and it's actions have never been challenged or help up to account.

Has Pell been prosecuted for offences that he did not commit? Hard to tell
Do Pell cover up and protect the church for crimes that any normal person would have informed the police? YES
Should he go to hell, his belief not mine? YES
Should the greater catholic community suffer for his sins? NO unless that keep denying this could not have happened.

Under any current day situation, would not the church be held to account as an organisation that allowed crimes to flourish and should not be allowed the privileges that our community bestows on this organisation? ie tax free organisation, NO

So for the sack of the catholic religion, I hope there leaders grow some balls and face up to the facts, they decided to hide crimes against children, to protect their own power at the cost of all those that believe in their god.

I feel for those that believe in this so of pure organisations that has let them and their beliefs down.

PS. I am agnostic. There may be a god, but he/she if they exist needs at this time to show the believers the true path of enlightenment, and persecute, not forgive the likes of Pell.

And for those that disagree, remember he was convicted of pedophilia, a heinous crime, that in normal circumstances would see the wrath of the community, what makes him special, because he is meant to be connected to GOD?
 
Tink said:
One of the most sacred principles in our society; innocent until proven guilty
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He was proven guilty and given a fare trial, even after a media blackout.

Tink, you do not need to question your religion, but should question those that control it in the name of GOD.
 
"Our criminal system is built on a simple but powerful premise: every man and woman accused of a crime is assumed innocent until found guilty by columnist Andrew Bolt. Derived from the Latin maxim ‘ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat Andrew Bolt’, it is a fundamental pillar of our democracy, and has been for centuries."



AB.jpg
 
This story encapsulates the trauma of people who have been sexually abused by clergy in Australia and the recovery they experienced when they were finally able to tell their story and have it believed.

Georgie Burg is survivor 577 in the Royal Commission's Book of Messages held in the National Library

A priest who raped me changed my life. My daughter inspired me to jail him
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03...ed-me-my-daughter-taught-me-survivor/10872444
 
I did not really like it Bas, it made me shed tears.

The more we get it out the better in the hopes of stopping it.
 
Another analysis of the determination by many conservative voices to defend George Pell and suggest he should never have been convicted.

The Cardinal and Mr Anonymous: George Pell's defenders mustn't repeat the mistakes of the past

......However, we lawyers can become too convinced by our own sophistry about proof. The jurors seem to have been given a choice between a detailed account maintained through intense cross-examination, and a brief denial on videotape. If we could hear from the anonymous complainant, we too might find ourselves persuaded as the jury was. We might come to admire, respect and empathise with him, acknowledging his enormous courage and determination.

We won't hear his voice because he owes no obligation to the public. He has no responsibility to persuade the powerful people who have leapt to Cardinal Pell's defence. He deserves his privacy and anonymity now.

Why do I speak up for him? Because the Christian faith requires me to treat everyone as equal in God's eyes, whether they are princes of the Church or anonymously ordinary. Because I know how hard it is for victims of sexual crimes to get through the multiple stages of the criminal trial process. Because I know the different ways in which, through intensive and lengthy cross-examination, defence counsel seeks to undermine the victim's credibility. Because in nearly twenty-five years of engagement with the issue of child sexual abuse in church communities, I know how often men like this complainant have not been listened to. And because I recall how often I have heard from senior Catholic leaders that the scurrilous accusations being made by victims are an attack on the Church; or that complainants are just making up claims in order to get compensation.

And in the chorus of criticism about the conviction of Cardinal Pell, there is an echo again of those voices of denial by senior religious leaders, which has led the Catholic Church to the crisis it finds itself in today. It is a crisis from which the Catholic Church may never fully recover.

Professor Patrick Parkinson AM is Dean of Law at the University of Queensland and author of "Child Sexual Abuse and the Churches: Understanding the Issues."

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/the-cardinal-and-mr-anonymous/10874492
 
SirRumpole said:
Bas,

Have you given any thought to what you will say if Pell gets off on appeal ?
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I have Rumpole for me it will simply be justice as we insist happens.

Note that if the appeal is successful it wont be because the victims evidence is in question.
 
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