RFX - Redflow Limited

mullokintyre said:

RFX had major announce ment about getting into bed with Stanwell to build a 400mwh battery installation, giving greater impetus to build a battery factory in Queensland.

Mick

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IF it can get the manufacturing plant built here, the company should go from strengh to strengh IMO, if it can't well it will be another share in the loss draw.
I must stop buying these "buy Australian" blue sky dreaming shares.

sptrawler said:

I must stop buying these "buy Australian" blue sky dreaming shares.

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if you find the secret to that ... please teach me

( i hold RFX , CCE , and a couple that might be finally bankrupt )

my concern here is that this rally is used for another cap. raise

A friend of mine asked me about the performance of the redflow batteries.
Had some quite specific questions,and when I asked him if was going to put some in on the farm., he said no, he already had a solar and batteries installed.
This was for another project, but he did not elaborate.
I know he he involved with the RFSin NSW, I wonder if the RFS is considering Redflow batteries for their own installations>
Mick

mullokintyre said:

A friend of mine asked me about the performance of the redflow batteries.
Had some quite specific questions,and when I asked him if was going to put some in on the farm., he said no, he already had a solar and batteries installed.
This was for another project, but he did not elaborate.
I know he he involved with the RFSin NSW, I wonder if the RFS is considering Redflow batteries for their own installations>
Mick

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since RFX are using flow tanks , i want to know the mean time to failure of the impeller motors ( and how hard are they to replace )

after having two solar inverters fail due to crappy ventilation fans ( one inverter partially exposed to the afternoon sun , the other in a fully shady/sheltered area )

i have become paranoid over inferior parts used in pivotal places

I know it's been a hard road for investors but RFX appear to be winning a few projects in the USA which , to me, shows the technology is viable.

The Queensland facility also looks interesting.

I think they need a partner though.

RFX quarterly out which makes for interesting reading.
The usual fluff is there about paernerships, increased interest etc, but the most important part for me was that while they only had a tad over 7.5 mill of customer receipts for the year, 6.8 mill of that came in the last quarter, and actually generating some net cash in operations.
One hopes that trend continues.
Perhaps we are starting to some sales materialise for all the R & D.
Mick

Today I sold out of all my RFX stocks at a significant loss.
I have lost faith in their products, as it appears that one of my Gen3 batteries has failed after 18 months installation.
I am yet to find out whether I get a refund, a promised replacement, or something else.
And it would appear that mine is not an isolated instance.
RFX appears to have completely pulled out of the domestic supply market to concentrate on large scale installations, particularly in the USA.
RFX have a policy of replacing defective batteries, which is fine, except there have been so many failures they are unable to supply replacements.
Mick

Redflow Enters Voluntary Administration

Brisbane 23 August 2024

Redflow Limited (ACN 130 227 271) and its Australian subsidiaries (ASX: RFX) (the Redflow Group)have entered voluntary administration. The wholly owned subsidiaries affected by the administration are Redflow R&D Pty Ltd ACN 116 992 253, ZCell Australia Pty Ltd ACN 613 792 420 and Redflow International Pty Ltd ACN 128 888 997.

Richard Hughes and David Orr from Deloitte have been appointed as Voluntary Administrators by the Redflow Groups’ respective boards of directors.
Redflow has developed a strategic plan to develop a larger scale X10 battery (based on its existing stack design) targeted at larger megawatt hour scale projects.
Redflow received significant commercial interest in the X10 battery and, with a growing customer base, was proposing a new factory be built and commissioned in Queensland to manufacture the X10 batteries at scale.
This strategic plan requires significant capital.
Over the past nine months Redflow has engaged with a number of state and federal government sand agencies that confirmed that significant Government support was available to fund the Redfow plan.
In order to access these funds, however, Redflow required significant “matching funding” from the Australian capital markets.
Based on encouraging external financial advice, Redflow considered and pursued the equity funding sources available to it, but in the current market, has been unable to attract the required equitysupport.
In the absence of such support, the Directors believe that Redflow is unable to continue as a going concern and have no option but to place the Redflow Group into voluntary administration.
The Administrators will now undertake a review and assessment of Redflow's business and financial position before making recommendations as to the future of Redflow.
Redflow will work with the Administrators to engage with parties to build on what Redflow has developed to date.
While Redflow is in administration, trading of shares in Redflow will be suspended.
Shareholders will be unable to transfer their shares during this time.This announcement has been authorised by the Board and approved for lodgement by the Administrators.

For more information, please refer to the contact details on the attached media release.

i hold RFX
another'green technology funding abyss

mullokintyre said:

Today I sold out of all my RFX stocks at a significant loss.
I have lost faith in their products, as it appears that one of my Gen3 batteries has failed after 18 months installation.
I am yet to find out whether I get a refund, a promised replacement, or something else.
And it would appear that mine is not an isolated instance.
RFX appears to have completely pulled out of the domestic supply market to concentrate on large scale installations, particularly in the USA.
RFX have a policy of replacing defective batteries, which is fine, except there have been so many failures they are unable to supply replacements.
Mick

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Dodged a bullet somewhat.
Sold out before the administration, so should be grateful, but took a big loss.
But it could have been somewhat bigger.
Now have two orphan bromine flow batteries, one of which has failed.
The original installers of my solar/battery combination also went into administration and disappeared owing lots of money (including to Redflow itself).
Looks like I may have to write off both batteries and look for Lithium Ion Phospahate versions.
Saving the F$#@^^@ planet can be expensive.
Mick

mullokintyre said:

Dodged a bullet somewhat.
Sold out before the administration, so should be grateful, but took a big loss.
But it could have been somewhat bigger.
Now have two orphan bromine flow batteries, one of which has failed.
The original installers of my solar/battery combination also went into administration and disappeared owing lots of money (including to Redflow itself).
Looks like I may have to write off both batteries and look for Lithium Ion Phospahate versions.
Saving the F$#@^^@ planet can be expensive.
Mick

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the Chinese ( mostly ) are pouring big bucks into Sodium ion batteries .. maybe some research there might be interesting

( am still trying to understand the technique used )

the only planet they are saving is their own super-elite lifestyle

yep
Battery maker Redflow has become the latest victim of the increasingly tough renewable energy market, appointing voluntary administrators in a move that raises concerns over the viability of the Albanese government’s Future Made in Australia policy.

Deloitte administrators Richard Hughes and David Orr are now in control of the firm and seeking new investment partners to restructure the business that was once touted as the global flag-bearer of flow battery technology.

It is understood Redflow faced a $30m funding shortfall in government and private funding for a major factory in Queensland.

mullokintyre said:

Today I sold out of all my RFX stocks at a significant loss.
I have lost faith in their products, as it appears that one of my Gen3 batteries has failed after 18 months installation.
I am yet to find out whether I get a refund, a promised replacement, or something else.
And it would appear that mine is not an isolated instance.
RFX appears to have completely pulled out of the domestic supply market to concentrate on large scale installations, particularly in the USA.
RFX have a policy of replacing defective batteries, which is fine, except there have been so many failures they are unable to supply replacements.
Mick

Click to expand...

Just read about this today, having been away for a few months.
It's a sad state of affairs, its not a good look for Australian battery manufacturing, with Redflow gone, and the nickel and lithium market blown to pieces.
Luckily we still have Hungry Jacks, to support our global manufacturing aspirations.

do we know which pat of the battery was failing ( most of the time ? )

( i hold/held RFX )

sptrawler said:

Just read about this today, having been away for a few months.
It's a sad state of affairs, its not a good look for Australian battery manufacturing, with Redflow gone, and the nickel and lithium market blown to pieces.
Luckily we still have Hungry Jacks, to support our global manufacturing aspirations.

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Yes invested in Collins this month.. looking forward...

There are two current stories on Redflow that are worth checking out.

The first is from the ABC. Long story short. The flow battery was never built properly. That should be allowed to sink in. Despite the promise of the technology Redflow never made a reliable product. It was these repeated breakdowns that destroyed the company. Mick ( unfortunately ) can testify to this problem.

So I seriously wonder why this ongoing issue did not seem to be acknowledged in the public sphere until now? Were the numbers of battery failures ever noted in the financial accounts ? Anyone here have any knowledge ?

Second story is also interesting - in a different way.
Apparently a Vanadium Flow battery is being trialed in West Australia. Same process. Different manufacturer. So perhaps someone has got this manufacturing process sorted out ? (If you check out the ABC story there so many failures..)

Redflow was the great hope of Australian manufacturing. Its collapse left customers with broken batteries

Redflow had political backing and a soaring ambition to sell energy storage to the world, but its $10,000 batteries regularly failed within months of installation leaving customers out of pocket.

www.abc.net.au

Horizon Power starts vanadium battery trial in Australia - Energy Storage

Western Australia’s state-owned regional energy provider, Horizon Power, has officially launched the trial of a vanadium flow battery (VFB) in the northern part of the state as it investigates how to integrate long-duration energy storage into its network, microgrids, and other off-grid power...

www.ess-news.com

sptrawler said:

Luckily we still have Hungry Jacks, to support our global manufacturing aspirations.

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To be fair, what about Krispy Kreme, now also available at Hungry Jack's.
We're manufacturing tubbies by the minute.

The whole redflow thing absolutely stinks.
The administrator say's they went bust because they couldn't raise money externally.

Definitely nothing to do with a dud product where they continually pulled the wool over people's eyes.
Politically sanctioned fraud really.
Good one Albo!

frugal.rock said:

Definitely nothing to do with a dud product where they continually pulled the wool over people's eyes.
Politically sanctioned fraud really.
Good one Albo!

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I don't believe Albo was PM when Redflex was first listed in 1997. From what has been posted here the product was subject poor manufacturing from the get go but shareholders, who have lost heaps, were not made aware of it. If the company wasn't going to let on to it's shareholders it was chewing up funds replacing faulty product why wouldn't it keep mum where Government money was on offer in the hope those issues could be resolved? If you take the purely cynical view of course.

basilio said:

There are two current stories on Redflow that are worth checking out.

The first is from the ABC. Long story short. The flow battery was never built properly. That should be allowed to sink in. Despite the promise of the technology Redflow never made a reliable product. It was these repeated breakdowns that destroyed the company. Mick ( unfortunately ) can testify to this problem.

So I seriously wonder why this ongoing issue did not seem to be acknowledged in the public sphere until now? Were the numbers of battery failures ever noted in the financial accounts ? Anyone here have any knowledge ?

Second story is also interesting - in a different way.
Apparently a Vanadium Flow battery is being trialed in West Australia. Same process. Different manufacturer. So perhaps someone has got this manufacturing process sorted out ? (If you check out the ABC story there so many failures..)

Redflow was the great hope of Australian manufacturing. Its collapse left customers with broken batteries

Redflow had political backing and a soaring ambition to sell energy storage to the world, but its $10,000 batteries regularly failed within months of installation leaving customers out of pocket.

www.abc.net.au

Horizon Power starts vanadium battery trial in Australia - Energy Storage

Western Australia’s state-owned regional energy provider, Horizon Power, has officially launched the trial of a vanadium flow battery (VFB) in the northern part of the state as it investigates how to integrate long-duration energy storage into its network, microgrids, and other off-grid power...

www.ess-news.com

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after my disappointing outcomes with solar array inverters , that failed because of inadequate cooling fans , i looked at the basics of flow batteries ( all brands ) and wondered if the moving part ( pump in this case ) was susceptible to similar premature failures , and if so , how easy was it to replace the part ( the solar inverters overheated sufficiently to cook the whole circuit board ) whereas the flow batteries MIGHT have been fixed at a reasonable cost ( or not )

i am still watching the AVL product , but other options are available ( but also still being researched/tested , like special capacitors )

the primary question will be if the battery ( whichever you buy ) has a predictable point of failure , how easy is it to fix that part



a SECOND issue is the efficient operating temperatures the battery will cope with ( some don't cope with extremes temperatures like 45 degrees Celsius or minus 20 Celsius )

the original Redflow server-room batteries were housed in cooled server rooms , so rarely encountered hot ( by human standards ) temperatures )

Bellcose said:

I don't believe Albo was PM when Redflex was first listed in 1997. From what has been posted here the product was subject poor manufacturing from the get go but shareholders, who have lost heaps, were not made aware of it. If the company wasn't going to let on to it's shareholders it was chewing up funds replacing faulty product why wouldn't it keep mum where Government money was on offer in the hope those issues could be resolved? If you take the purely cynical view of course.

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Albo was definitely not PM before 2000 ( or 2007 )

but yes maybe in hindsight i should have been very cynical earlier and avoided a capital loss ,

what the investing public need to know now , is what were the causes of the battery failures , so we can assess a worthy investment IF it arrives

I would argue that what the investing public needs to know is how to read financial statements, because no one who could do that would ever have invested in RFX. It was pure narrative speculation.