RFX - Redflow Limited

[sptrawler]

There are two current stories on Redflow that are worth checking out.

The first is from the ABC. Long story short. The flow battery was never built properly. That should be allowed to sink in. Despite the promise of the technology Redflow never made a reliable product. It was these repeated breakdowns that destroyed the company. Mick ( unfortunately ) can testify to this problem.

So I seriously wonder why this ongoing issue did not seem to be acknowledged in the public sphere until now? Were the numbers of battery failures ever noted in the financial accounts ? Anyone here have any knowledge ?

Second story is also interesting - in a different way.
Apparently a Vanadium Flow battery is being trialed in West Australia. Same process. Different manufacturer. So perhaps someone has got this manufacturing process sorted out ? (If you check out the ABC story there so many failures..)

Redflow was the great hope of Australian manufacturing. Its collapse left customers with broken batteries

Redflow had political backing and a soaring ambition to sell energy storage to the world, but its $10,000 batteries regularly failed within months of installation leaving customers out of pocket.

www.abc.net.au

Horizon Power starts vanadium battery trial in Australia - Energy Storage

Western Australia’s state-owned regional energy provider, Horizon Power, has officially launched the trial of a vanadium flow battery (VFB) in the northern part of the state as it investigates how to integrate long-duration energy storage into its network, microgrids, and other off-grid power...

www.ess-news.com

To be fair, what about Krispy Kreme, now also available at Hungry Jack's.
We're manufacturing tubbies by the minute.

The whole redflow thing absolutely stinks.
The administrator say's they went bust because they couldn't raise money externally.

Definitely nothing to do with a dud product where they continually pulled the wool over people's eyes.
Politically sanctioned fraud really.
Good one Albo!

I don't believe Albo was PM when Redflex was first listed in 1997. From what has been posted here the product was subject poor manufacturing from the get go but shareholders, who have lost heaps, were not made aware of it. If the company wasn't going to let on to it's shareholders it was chewing up funds replacing faulty product why wouldn't it keep mum where Government money was on offer in the hope those issues could be resolved? If you take the purely cynical view of course.

Well it all comes back to optics, when you are talking up the rhetoric, punters believe what they hear and read.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, once I was burnt on the potash dream, I became very sceptical of the green can dreaming rhetoric.
Thankfully I wasn't burnt on RFX, I think the renewable dream needs a royal commission, to get a honest appraisal of the reality. Lol

As we say DYOR.

Why wouldn't punters jump on board the great new made in Australia green dream? The Govt was on board

Redflow zinc-bromine flow batteries to ensure resilient telecoms in Australian government initiative

Dozens of zinc-bromine flow battery units will be deployed at 56 remote telecommunications stations in Australia, supplied by manufacturer Redflow.

www.energy-storage.news

https://www.optus.com.au/about/media-centre/media-releases/2023/11/optus-invests-to-protect-bushfire-prone-communities

Redflow charging up ahead of next-gen battery launch

Redflow (ASX: RFX) is gearing up to launch the next generation of its zinc-bromine flow batteries for energy storage after years spent improving the technology.

www.businessnewsaustralia.com

Redflow eyes “megawatt-hour” market for its ZBM flow batteries

Redflow eyes big future for its next generation of ZBM flow batteries, after delivering half-year results it says do not reflect the progress of the last six months.

www.google.com

Why it's not all about lithium batteries

CEO of Redflow, Tim Harris, explains the advantages its zinc-bromine batteries have over lithium batteries & its recent deal in California. Find out more at Eureka Report.

www.intelligentinvestor.com.au

 

[basilio]

Well it all comes back to optics, when you are talking up the rhetoric, punters believe what they hear and read.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, once I was burnt on the potash dream, I became very sceptical of the green can dreaming rhetoric.
Thankfully I wasn't burnt on RFX, I think the renewable dream needs a royal commission, to get a honest appraisal of the reality. Lol

As we say DYOR.

Why wouldn't punters jump on board the great new made in Australia green dream? The Govt was on board

Redflow zinc-bromine flow batteries to ensure resilient telecoms in Australian government initiative

Dozens of zinc-bromine flow battery units will be deployed at 56 remote telecommunications stations in Australia, supplied by manufacturer Redflow.

www.energy-storage.news

https://www.optus.com.au/about/media-centre/media-releases/2023/11/optus-invests-to-protect-bushfire-prone-communities

Redflow charging up ahead of next-gen battery launch

Redflow (ASX: RFX) is gearing up to launch the next generation of its zinc-bromine flow batteries for energy storage after years spent improving the technology.

www.businessnewsaustralia.com

Redflow eyes “megawatt-hour” market for its ZBM flow batteries

Redflow eyes big future for its next generation of ZBM flow batteries, after delivering half-year results it says do not reflect the progress of the last six months.

www.google.com

Why it's not all about lithium batteries

CEO of Redflow, Tim Harris, explains the advantages its zinc-bromine batteries have over lithium batteries & its recent deal in California. Find out more at Eureka Report.

www.intelligentinvestor.com.au

It is merde. My point was focusing on the long term problems Redflow had with getting the manufacturing right. How did they get away so long with a faulty product ?

I don't think we throw out the baby with the bathwater. Creating a clean renewable energy system is essential and makes great sense. That doesn't mean every project works. It doesn't mean their won't be hiccups, mistakes and sometime grave errors and fraud. But these are all risks and realities across the business world.

It really xhits me though how Redflow talked up their project while it's execution was just appalling. I think heads should roll on that front.

 

[sptrawler]

It is merde. My point was focusing on the long term problems Redflow had with getting the manufacturing right. How did they get away so long with a faulty product ?

I don't think we throw out the baby with the bathwater. Creating a clean renewable energy system is essential and makes great sense. That doesn't mean every project works. It doesn't mean their won't be hiccups, mistakes and sometime grave errors and fraud. But these are all risks and realities across the business world.

It really xhits me though how Redflow talked up their project while it's execution was just appalling. I think heads should roll on that front.

I agree with you Bas, I just think that if a transition to renewables is to be successful, it has to be a well thought out, well executed plan otherwise it becomes chaotic and that unfortunately looks as though what is happening.
We have coal generators now being funded by the taxpayer, gas turbines that are running on diesel due to insufficient supply of gas, it certainly doesn't appear to be a well executed plan and that leads to stop gap fixes and money being thrown at untested and unproven products in the hope it will work.
Redflow took the opportunity to fast track a product, to take advantage of the market created by Governments setting targets that required a speedy rollout, or the lithium based competion would close the door on zinc bromide products.
When things are fast tracked, mistakes are made, It will be interesting to see how many other failures happen before 2030, interesting times.

 

[divs4ever]

It is merde. My point was focusing on the long term problems Redflow had with getting the manufacturing right. How did they get away so long with a faulty product ?

I don't think we throw out the baby with the bathwater. Creating a clean renewable energy system is essential and makes great sense. That doesn't mean every project works. It doesn't mean their won't be hiccups, mistakes and sometime grave errors and fraud. But these are all risks and realities across the business world.

It really xhits me though how Redflow talked up their project while it's execution was just appalling. I think heads should roll on that front.

well for a start there are some directors that earned a place in my little black book ( of directors and companies to avoid )

having issues is part of a new business/project , glossing over the troubles is unfortunately more common than it should be

dodged the potash bullet ( except via BHP ) , but yes i lost some cash at 'Green dream ' projects not just RFX , but luckily didn't abandon fossil fuel plays ( which have easily balanced out the losses on the unicorn dream companies )

if digitization/AI is going to do what is planned , coal/gas/oil still have plenty of future , if AI crumbles , then Green tech is just a goat-track for hippes ( and tree-changers ) to embrace ,

 

[galumay]

Sorry to harp on a point, but surely a perfect example of why buying the story isn't investing. Thats why I coined the term Narrative Speculation - because thats all it is, gambling. I know I am banging on about the same thing, but if you read the financials from the beginning, this was never an investible business.

There is no need for conspiracy theories here, like so many others, it wasn't a viable business. It makes such a massive difference to your long term performance if you can just identify and avoid the businesses with un-investible financials. Permanent loss of capital is the most dangerous risk an investor faces and it should be our first priority to avoid. A big part of this is actually actively avoiding listening to, reading or creating stories/narratives.

Of course, all of this is just my own opinion and experience, and I am sure many will disagree with me, but it saddens me to see people lose precious capital in situations like this.

 

[mullokintyre]

Sorry to harp on a point, but surely a perfect example of why buying the story isn't investing. Thats why I coined the term Narrative Speculation - because thats all it is, gambling. I know I am banging on about the same thing, but if you read the financials from the beginning, this was never an investible business.

There is no need for conspiracy theories here, like so many others, it wasn't a viable business. It makes such a massive difference to your long term performance if you can just identify and avoid the businesses with un-investible financials. Permanent loss of capital is the most dangerous risk an investor faces and it should be our first priority to avoid. A big part of this is actually actively avoiding listening to, reading or creating stories/narratives.

Of course, all of this is just my own opinion and experience, and I am sure many will disagree with me, but it saddens me to see people lose precious capital in situations like this.

I will have to plead guilty to the charge your honour.
I bought in because I liked the story.
While researching battery systems, the redflow seemed to tick the boxes that I wanted for our home solar/battery backup system.
I then transferred that positive vibe to the company and investing in them.
Obviously a big mistake.
But that is how we learn, by not repeating our mistakes (ok maybe one repeat).
Mick

 

[galumay]

I will have to plead guilty to the charge your honour.

Me too, me too! In my early life as an investor it was probably 75% of my 'investments', I certainly learnt some costly lessons! The other 25% was buying other people's conviction, which didn't work out too well either!

Humans are suckers for narrative and its a bias that takes constant effort to resist IMO.