Religious beliefs impacting on medical treatment - Views?

[barney]

Amish dont have photos - but my guess is that they permit Xrays?
In which case, yessss - been trying to get em on an inconsistency for yearss!! jokin.

PS Barney, as for my relationship with ladies, here's the facts m8 :-
http://humor.beecy.net/menwomen/mansong/
like, - lol - I'm like any other happily married aussie round here
(this song is quite enlightening but only for non-buddhists, )

Thanks for your post as well Coyotte, must check it out again myself - why the heck would you want to END the rebirth cycle, - I'm looking forward to coming back as my dog as a wedgetailed eagle maybe, but not sadly as a polar bear , no ice = no dice , Apologies for getting off the track yet again)

Very Funny ............... Of course none of that song is relevant in my household !!! ......... Yeah right .... and I tell "porkie pies" too

 

[2020hindsight]

another comment from left field...
there was a recently reported case of a face graft - poor girl had no other choice if she wanted to look "normal". They say there is no similarity between "the donor" and "the donee".

But nonetheless... a couple of stories from my subconscious...

Anyone ever see that movie, Hitchcock? cant be sure, but this fellow has a green eyed wife - they can't stand each other - and also a blind mistress who is scheduled for a new set of eyes (transplant - at least the coloured iris - which is central to the plot). Anyway he kills his wife by (I think) doing something to her car - meanwhile his mistress gets a call that a donor is availble for her eye op - You can guess the rest I suppose the same malevolent green piercing stare greets him as the bandages come off lol.

make that a DEVILLISH stare - then I can claim I'm relevant to the thread lol

Also the one about the bloke who had part of his buttocks skin-grafted to his face ..... and thereafter used to joke to the missus ... "come over here cuddles, and kiss my butt!" (heck that one's probably common )

suppose I could be risky riskee? here and tell another - had a sporting injury once, ran into a crotch-high post in the outfield playing baseball, needed stitches in my pen-is-mightier-than-the-sword (code) - anyway the doctor says "just gonna give it an injection"
I said "you cant!"
"why not" he says, swinging around with this bloody big needle (in truth tiny )
me - groping for an excuse "it's, it's ... against my religion!!" - (in truth I just thought of that)
he says , ''ahh nonsense - it's only a little prick" (that's the main truthful bit lol - that doctor thought he was soooo funny )

 

[coyotte]

QUOTE :
Thanks for your post as well Coyotte, must check it out again myself - why the heck would you want to END the rebirth cycle, - I'm looking forward to coming back as my dog as a wedgetailed eagle maybe, but not sadly as a polar bear , no ice = no dice , Apologies for getting off the track yet again)[/QUOTE]


I'm referring here to Buddha's original teachings , before they traveled from India to China :

" Life/Death is nothing but suffering -- filled with cycles of Craving/Adversion --- even in death this cycle continues "

" Enlightment(realization) shows the cause of this cycle and brings about the ending of it "

" What happens AFTER realization is beyond our comprehension , prior to realization -- we at the best may receive piecemeal glimpses just prior to Enlightment " ---- Hence the Buddha saying " Those that Know stay Silent -- Those that do not know tell "

A interesting bit of piecemeal is that two of the guys involved in the setting up of MacBank also where the foundation teachers at the Buddhist Meditation Center at Blackheath NSW , -- I attended the second course held there many years ago.


Cheers

 

[2020hindsight]

" Life/Death is nothing but suffering -- filled with cycles of Craving/Adversion --- even in death this cycle continues "
...the foundation teachers at the Buddhist Meditation Center at Blackheath NSW , -- I attended the second course held there many years ago.

thanks for that !
I have even enquired about spending a weekend down at the Buddhist centre near Wollongong (Nan Tien Temple) . They have accommodation plus meditation lessons, etc. (wanted the kids to go, but they were "busy"
http://www.tourismwollongong.com/recreation/recDetails.asp?recNo=59
Personally i love the buddhists, and I love meditation. I can't agree with reincarnation (being candid for a moment) - nor for that matter the Dalia Lama lauding heaps of praise and accolades on some kid who they have decided is the reincarnation of some great monk.

And (memories of my youth here) there's nothing in common between the conversations you have with strangers at a Buddhist Temple in Thailand, and those at a Cathedral in Sydney. I mean it's pretty rare that you're asked "do you want a girl" when you go to a Cathedral in Sydney for instance.

Then again, I went to Hawaii, there's this bloke playing a ukelele on the main beach - you know adding some non-commercial atmosphere (as I thought lol) - and I walk up to compliment him on his playing, and guess what he replies... "you want a girl"?
ahh lol - some things never change. But yet again I digress.

I do admire those Buddhists, even have a bit of saffron robe somewhere around here. - and a lucky number that a Buddhist monk shook out for me - works about as well as tossing a coin.

 

[coyotte]

Hindsight :

Try the Visspassiona Center at Blackheath :

They run a 10 day course (live in ) and payment is by donation
They used to also have a 3 day introduction course

Of all the centers i attended in the past , this one wins hands down

If U manage to survive the first 3 days , you've got it made


Cheers

 

[Sean K]

Hindsight :

Try the Visspassiona Center at Blackheath :

They run a 10 day course (live in ) and payment is by donation
They used to also have a 3 day introduction course

Of all the centers i attended in the past , this one wins hands down

If U manage to survive the first 3 days , you've got it made

Cheers

And hopefully when you've had the experience you will be able to discard all dogmatic doctrine and live your own path relevant to your own culture and time space.

Any 'teaching' is ultimately from a perspective not relevant to your own.

The ultimate DYOR!

 

[2020hindsight]

And hopefully when you've had the experience you will be able to discard all dogmatic doctrine and live your own path relevant to your own culture and time space. Any 'teaching' is ultimately from a perspective not relevant to your own. The ultimate DYOR!

yep , totally agreed kennas. 100% agree. and thanks again coyotte. Doubt I'll do it lol, maybe keep researching the internet (and ASF ) Was mainly for my kids at the time.

I would add that DYO Meditation can teach us all a few new dimensions that we might not have been aware of.

Btw, I find it wierd that some christian religions say that "you shouldn't meditate !! - you are liable to attack by the devil!"
for a start with I DETEST the devil - and by that I mean I detest the Concept that there even IS a devil. Such a load of gobbley gook. Just something to frighten little kids. Anyway meditation is fantastic imho. (just ask the Beatles lol).

One thing they have established is that people have masses of memories and half-rational thoughts - piled high in countless corners of the subconscious mind. When they were researching LSD in the early days, some bloke started speaking Greek - yet he knew not a word of Greek when he "woke up". Then when it was translated it barely made sense and - paraphrasing - involved the price of bananas at Flemington markets Powers of the Mind .. Adam Smith .. was a good read as I recall.

extract from the poetry thread:-

If I were the God of the Living, ..and somebody came up and said
That some quote from some Biblical text or Koran..predicted some horrible dread,
Abandoned by Keeper, some monster Grim Reaper who mega-throws worlds on their head ! -
I’m here just ignore it (cos I’ve never saw it), and don’t be so easily lead.
Predictions like that .. when the world was flat..
(Begotten, forgotten, from-some-old-dude’s-jottin’)
are inept (you can take it as read).

As I've said a few times, I wish instead we'd concentrate on what we're doing to Mother Earth than worrying about the devil, or whether we'll go to heaven etc..

But If I were the Mother of Nature, ..and my world was a breaking shell,
And someone was pouring black oil on my birds…and poisoning, slowly, the well,
And deserts were growing like wildfire.. and wildfires were burning like Hell,
I’d be just a tiddy- wee-bit concerned, …And I’d probably opt to sell !!
Or make a new pact to clean up my act,
(this dome, my home, where I love to roam)
and try to make patient well;
And stare down their eyes when they rabidly foam ,
while ringing some Heavenly bell.

 

[barney]

One thing they have established is that poeple have masses of memories and half-rational thoughts - piled high in countless corners of the subconscious mind. When they were researching LSD in the early days, some bloke started speaking Greek - yet he knew not a word of Greek when he "woke up". Then when it was translated it barely made sense and - paraphrasing - involved the price of bananas at Flemington markets

Hey 20/20, I suspect you may be going "Bananas" ...... Do you make all this stuff up ?? ........... I am curious to know what you are like after a few beers?? I suspect you probably make more sense!!

Good onya m8 ... you're a laugh a minute. Barney.

 

[2020hindsight]

lol - barney
my last post was NOT off topic - I refute that!!!
I mean Exorcism is a medical treatment is it not!!
And usually there's a bunch of bananas around lol. - or is it a bunch of zombies?

(that story is from Adam Smith's "Powers of the Mind " - good open-minded study of the topic - including the incredible power of meditation, and the tendency to peaceful outlook by those who practice it ).

Obviously the power of suggestion as well. Superstitious suggestions landing on fertile uneducated minds who aren't equipped to defend / counterattack the madness implied that the devil might "take over their being". sheesh

Ever noticed how the number of exorcisms in a society is directly proportional to the intensity of christian teachings they've been exposed to? - just a form of hypnosis.- both catching the "disease", and the cure - imho.

PS I've been told I'm to attack the front yard with the mower. !! hell I need a bulldozer!! - and a sharp axe for the big weeds. adios amigo.

Lol as for asking what I'm like after a few beers - you already know.
What you dont know is what I'm like WITHOUT em - keep that guitar gently weepin dude.

 

[Out Too Soon]

enlightenment (heaven)

Think you will find "enlightenment" in Buddhist terms is referring to an end of the rebirth cycle --- traditional heaven/hell can not exist in Buddhism unless you create it here for yourself.
cheers

What happens after death is all just religious conjecture, how you live your life & treat others & your environment is whats important.
The idea of ending the rebirth cycle is to finally be one with the enlightened ( much like a christian heaven) the main difference is it takes more than one life cycle to get to heaven. Buddhists beleive in Hell also, just as Hindus do as Buddhism came from Hinduism. I visited Angkor Wat recently & found they (HIndus) actually beleive there are 32 hells & 27 or so heavens. Getting back to what a real Thai Buddhist like my wife beleives though, yes there is a purgatory/& hell, if your really bad you dont get reborn at all you stay in hell.
So be good or Santa wont come.
Thais are starting to celebrate Christmas now too, with Santa Claus & giving presents, Thais love an excuse for a party.

 

[Sean K]

What happens after death is all just religious conjecture, how you live your life & treat others & your environment is whats important.

So be good or Santa wont come.

Yes, absolutely, and Amen.

Well, funny, although this is just another form of interpreting karma.

Be good, for goods sake.

 

[2020hindsight]

actually..there are 32 hells & 27 or so heavens. ... and .. if you're really bad you dont get reborn at all you stay in hell.
So be good or Santa wont come.

M8 - that is the most pessimistic thing I have ever heard!! - you mean I have one chance in 32 of meeting up with my old mates !!

just by the way - lol - when I was a student they used to have a thing called a "pass conceded" - = "you really failed, but, what the hek , you did ok in other subjects " - so hopefully they have a similar thing in this "heaven vs hell " test - and hopefully I get 51% instead of 49 % lol.
especially when heaven = general ecstacy - except for harp practice every 2 hours; and hell = general stoking fires - and 23.5 hour shifts daily.

what a loada bollocks .... lol
thank OTS - appreciate your comments - and your wife's
- but I don't have to agree yes? have a gr8 xmas

PS what's the difference between the 27 heavens btw? - presumaby its like a 27 storey building at the gold coast ? - and only the creme-dela-creme get the penthouse ?
PS it's important that you dont tell your wife that i'm taking the piss here - just that I mmm find it a bit mmm different.

 

[coyotte]

Out to Soon :

Your referring to buddhism after it left India and was mixed with other beliefs and religions and turned into a religion --- Gottama never intended his teachings to turn into a religion and forbades it it in the dahmas:

Enlightenment is referring to the lifting of the Veil of Darkness and allowing the Light of Knowledge to enter.


Same thing with Mohammad: at the time Arab females where treated as property and lower than livestock -- it was his teachings which gave them at least some rights above a goat or camel, I probably wrong here but I thought the Koran says something about only a woman can own/inherit Property and a male money and livestock.

But back to what this thread is about:
In Buddha's teachings ALL life is sacred and even if one has committed a greivious crime against humanity, one must be given the opportunity to make amends.


Cheers

 

[DB008]

Don't waste your time. Religion is so embedded in some people that even if u offer then a cure, and they are against it, they would rather die. So, l say, let 'em die. Darwin's theory lives. Simple as that.
Even though a doctor is trained to save peoples lives, in the end it's up to the individual. $$$ in courts are $$$

 

[Out Too Soon]

Thanks Coyote, Buddhism is supposed to be a way to live your life, was never supposed to be a religion. I'm sure Jesus was more interested in making the world a better place too.
Merry Christmas all.

 

[2020hindsight]

Thanks Coyote, Buddhism is supposed to be a way to live your life, was never supposed to be a religion.

OTS, yep. I too always thought that to be the main message as well (and like you I lived in Asia for a few years) - apologies if my previous post came across rude - and btw, buddhists dont let religious beliefs impact on medical treatment as far as I know.