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Agreed. Isn't it nice to be in accord on something!
I'm sure it makes us both feel like at least some sanity prevails : P
Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical
- Thread starter bellenuit
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I'm sure it makes us both feel like at least some sanity prevails : P
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Not sure what you're trying to say?
Exactly what I said. They should throw evolution out of the schools and replace it with JESUS.
I can't see any justification for teaching religion in schools apart from a historical perspective, ie how people's religious beliefs determined their behaviour and how this changed the course of history, without making any comment on the accuracy of those beliefs.
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You may not call that an increase in genetic information, but geneticists and information scientists do. And those duplications and mutations account for the complete diversity of life that we see today.
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Don't be silly. That link didn't in any way refute Lucy. The most astonishing part of what was on the link was this demonstration of non-science.....
Based on Genesis 1, biblical creationists recognize that humans and apes were never related. So we naturally conclude that Lucy was not on her way to becoming human. This viewpoint guides our interpretation of the fossil evidence.
and this.....
Our goal was simply to construct the best model that is consistent with the fossil evidence and with a literal understanding of the creation account in Genesis.
You should really look at some other science sites instead of the rubbish on Answers In Genesis. They distort science to suit their belief system. Take this interview of various creationists. The very first speaker sums their "science" up perfectly.
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Haha. They account for the diversity of life that we see today because all that information has been there from the start! There is no new genetic information created.
Someone could be born with 5 arms. That doesn't mean there is any new information. The information for an arm was always there. Duplications or mutations only contain information already there.
It's like saying if I buy 2 copies of a trading book that I have an increase in information. You have the same information twice!
For a reptile to grow wings and fly it needs NEW information not already there. There are ZERO examples of NEW information which would allow this. This is unscientific by definition.
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Haha you criticize their worldview rather than discussing the refutations of Lucy.
Haha smoke and mirrors much?
If you can't beat their logic, attack their worldview. Classy.
You are all hype no substance mate.
Heck, you still don't understand the genetic information thing.
Stop wasting your time and mine and go do some research.
Or go do some trading instead.
What do you do for a job?
Have you ever worked in biological research lab or similar?
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No. Why would I have to work in a lab to know basic scientific principles?
Have you ever worked as a meteorologist to know that it's raining outside?
I'm a property valuer. And you wouldn't have to sit at my desk either to determine the value of a property!
This thread has been going for less than a month and already it has degenerated to the same level as all of the other threads that include "Religion" in their titles ... hard-nosed atheists with their unyielding narrow beliefs in abiogenesis and evolution intent on their mission to crush discussions about God and keep young people ignorant of the spiritual aspects of their lives.
Stevenson's and Tucker's significant body of evidence for the reincarnation of souls seriously conflicts with their views so is swept aside without consideration and ignored.
String Theory and M-Theory, which have found scientific support in the data received from the Planck Satellite and which could well be part of the explanation, are ignored because they fall outside the box.
The documentary about stigmata was immediately dismissed by the atheists as a hoax and a fraud, without any credible evidence of such being produced. The documentary was made by Catholics and shown on Fox therefore it HAS to be a fraud and there's no other explanation!
Then there's the intriguing mystery of the weeping statues which have been scientifically examined but for which no explanation has been found. How can this be? This would seem to be the easiest spiritual mystery to destroy with a simple exposure of the technique used to produce the "tears", but none has been found. More conflict for the atheist brain ... too hard ... just dismiss it as an obvious hoax and gloss over it. If there's a credible explanation out there, I'd be interested to hear it.
The atheists ridicule God and those who believe in him, but their reaction to the mention of Satan is most interesting. Satan is mentioned frequently in the Bible but any mention of him here draws howls of derision from the atheists, which is exactly what he wants because his aim is simply to destroy belief in God, by any means possible, and the atheists are playing right into his hands. Satan's mission in this spiritual battle is to dethrone God and destroy belief in God by deceiving and dividing humanity. Atheists cannot accept God and there's absolutely no way they can accept that they're being manipulated by an intelligence many magnitudes higher than theirs, and any suggestion they are is absolutely laughable and we get dismissive comments like, "Fear of Satan's influence is only taken seriously by the most blinkered, brainwashed and indoctrinated of religious drones these days". Well, they've been warned, but no one's listening, and Satan must be feeling quite chuffed!
Schools allow all sorts of non-scientific and biased views to be discussed in subjects like Art, English, History, etc. but any attempts to introduce discussions about God are vigorously resisted by the atheists, and kids growing up with atheist parents in atheist neighbourhoods are brainwashed with hateful ideas about religion and kept ignorant. When they have trouble coping with their cold atheist lives, they either seek out their friendly local drug dealers for a quick fix, whether it be alcohol or something much harder which ends up destroying them, ... or they just kill themselves. Either way, Satan is happy. :evilburn:
If you think all of this is ludicrous nonsense, then provide a CREDIBLE scientific explanation for reincarnation (evidence of spirituality), and tell the M-Theory guys (possible mechanism) they're talking rubbish. ... Oh, and don't forget the weeping statues.
Else, try opening your mind to other age-old explanations (and I know that's a BIG ask, and impossible for some who believe that being open-minded is a sign of gullibility) and try reading: http://www.battlefocused.org/spiritual-warfare/
This thread has been going for less than a month and already it has degenerated to the same level as all of the other threads that include "Religion" in their titles ... hard-nosed atheists with their unyielding narrow beliefs in abiogenesis and evolution intent on their mission to crush discussions about God and keep young people ignorant of the spiritual aspects of their lives.
Stevenson's and Tucker's significant body of evidence for the reincarnation of souls seriously conflicts with their views so is swept aside without consideration and ignored.
String Theory and M-Theory, which have found scientific support in the data received from the Planck Satellite and which could well be part of the explanation, are ignored because they fall outside the box.
The documentary about stigmata was immediately dismissed by the atheists as a hoax and a fraud, without any credible evidence of such being produced. The documentary was made by Catholics and shown on Fox therefore it HAS to be a fraud and there's no other explanation!
Then there's the intriguing mystery of the weeping statues which have been scientifically examined but for which no explanation has been found. How can this be? This would seem to be the easiest spiritual mystery to destroy with a simple exposure of the technique used to produce the "tears", but none has been found. More conflict for the atheist brain ... too hard ... just dismiss it as an obvious hoax and gloss over it. If there's a credible explanation out there, I'd be interested to hear it.
The atheists ridicule God and those who believe in him, but their reaction to the mention of Satan is most interesting. Satan is mentioned frequently in the Bible but any mention of him here draws howls of derision from the atheists, which is exactly what he wants because his aim is simply to destroy belief in God, by any means possible, and the atheists are playing right into his hands. Satan's mission in this spiritual battle is to dethrone God and destroy belief in God by deceiving and dividing humanity. Atheists cannot accept God and there's absolutely no way they can accept that they're being manipulated by an intelligence many magnitudes higher than theirs, and any suggestion they are is absolutely laughable and we get dismissive comments like, "Fear of Satan's influence is only taken seriously by the most blinkered, brainwashed and indoctrinated of religious drones these days". Well, they've been warned, but no one's listening, and Satan must be feeling quite chuffed!
Schools allow all sorts of non-scientific and biased views to be discussed in subjects like Art, English, History, etc. but any attempts to introduce discussions about God are vigorously resisted by the atheists, and kids growing up with atheist parents in atheist neighbourhoods are brainwashed with hateful ideas about religion and kept ignorant. When they have trouble coping with their cold atheist lives, they either seek out their friendly local drug dealers for a quick fix, whether it be alcohol or something much harder which ends up destroying them, ... or they just kill themselves. Either way, Satan is happy. :evilburn:
If you think all of this is ludicrous nonsense, then provide a CREDIBLE scientific explanation for reincarnation (evidence of spirituality), and tell the M-Theory guys (possible mechanism) they're talking rubbish. ... Oh, and don't forget the weeping statues.
Else, try opening your mind to other age-old explanations (and I know that's a BIG ask, and impossible for some who believe that being open-minded is a sign of gullibility) and try reading: http://www.battlefocused.org/spiritual-warfare/
Dethrone God???
Whatever you recon.........
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That is the most silly rant I have ever heard on a thread and I can only assume you haven't taken on board many comments posted about some of the topics you have raised. I do not intend to go back over them because it is patently obvious that much you have stated in that post is contradictory to what has been said by people here.
When you use the word "degenerated", I think you should look closely at yourself. You are the one I mostly see throwing insults at everyone who does hold the same opinions as you.
Looks like you don't even know what uv written...
You said satan attempts to dethrone God. There is no such thing?
Also, if you want credible spiritual evidence. Go and find your own. There are 100s of 1000s of people in this country who have spiritual experiences when they go to church. YOUR refusing to believe them.
TO THINK THAT THERE IS SO MUCH SPIRITUAL EVIDENCE HAPPENING IN CHURCHES ALL AROUND YOU AND YOUR MARCHING AROUND IN CIRCLES SAYING 'WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?'
This is what us Christians just can't get our heads around about you atheists. Considering the seriousness of the Christian faith and that it involves your soul spending eternity in a lake of molten sulfur if you don't believe. Wouldn't you at least spend some time in church trying to seek out God??
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Weeping statues - genuine or fake?
http://www.news.com.au/world/crowds...-tarshiha-israel/story-fndir2ev-1226824907246
Should be easy enough to prove a hoax I thought, but I have not been able to find any precise explanations of how it's done.
Bellenuit ...?
That's one of yours Chris. A brand new weeping statue that you want us all to believe has a supernatural explanation. You then listed some more and followed up with this challenge:
Mocking sceptics that haven't investigated the particular cases you are interested in or who may have (I don't have the details) but might simply have no explanation. No explanation doesn't mean supernatural. One would have also to know what conditions were imposed on sceptics who might have been allowed test the statues. Many staunchly Catholic congregations don't want unbelievers poking around in what they see as signs from God. I actual gave you an example of a sceptic who showed how a weeping statue in India was caused by a leaking pipe and he is now facing trial because the local Catholic community used some outmoded law about offending religious beliefs against him.
But putting that aside, what is the most likely cause of this new weeping statue in Tarshiha. We are told it is “covered with oil” and "talked" to the owner. There have been no scientific test on it as far as I am aware, so when we don't jump to your conclusion that it is supernatural, we become ignorant sceptics or ignorant atheists.
But that is the least logical conclusion to jump to in the case of Tarshiha.
This is the Catholic Church's take on such events (they are obviously ignorant sceptics too).
Vatican drafts guidelines to combat new boom in fraudulent revelations
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) is to publish up-to-date criteria to help Catholics to distinguish between true and false claims of visions, messages, stigmata, weeping statues and Eucharistic miracles.
......
It said that between 1905 and 1995 there were 295 reported "apparitions", only 11 of which were recognized as genuine. It said that in many cases false seers had been unmasked, pecuniary transactions discovered, and "signs from heaven" exposed as human trickery.
http://www.evangelizationstation.co...lsehoods/vatican_drafts_guidelines_to_com.htm
Few Weeping Madonnas Pass Vatican`s Test
Ninety-nine percent of these cases were due to collective hallucinations, a play on light, a chemical phenomenon and, sometimes, even the speculation of people with few scruples,
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-10-03/news/8503070291_1_vatican-statues-weeping
And if you thinks sceptics should be jumping to investigate each and every occurrence (not that they are allowed to) there is this:
Enough hoaxes have been uncovered, even among people with reputations for piety and honesty, that an extended search for mundane explanations and the hesitancy of church officials to promote phenomena such as weeping statues except in the rarest of cases is justified.
http://www.answers.com/topic/weeping-statue
Yes, that is why sceptics too, search for mundane explanations.
So perhaps some hesitancy on your part to jump to the conclusion of supernatural causes and to denigrate those who don't is perhaps warranted.
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Not at all, I do believe them and by the way they have such experiences outside the church as well since their God can't be limited to act only on Sunday morning within the confines of a church building (much less common though for reasons few Christians seem to ponder). What they experience may seem quite real and genuine to them so I believe many of my Christian friends who say they have experienced a spiritual event of some kind (faith healing, specific answer to prayer, purging of demons, speaking in tongues etc).
Many though need such experiences for faith affirmation (self-fulfilling expectation) and rarely question whether these experiences were just wishful thinking nor subject them to serious examination. It's all excepted on faith because they can't (and generally don't) seek any earthly explanation for what they have experienced - it simply must be of Godly origin. If some event can't be immediately explained then by default - God.
And I have experienced it all my friend and I can honestly say that for all the times I've "experienced" such "evidence" in the form of faith healings, tongues, casting out of demons (usually by collapsing backward into the waiting hands of the expectant brethren) etc., not once did I ever believe myself that anything genuinely supernatural took place.
The "evidence" required by atheists is of the kind that is testable, repeatable, verifiable and can withstand scrutiny. Hence your "spiritual" evidence does not qualify and is faith based. Any God concept may be improbable and unnecessary but I am open to be proved wrong at any time.
I certainly have (the Christian God since all others must be false God's of course, a selective atheism), but what I found instead was a deeply flawed mythology replete with contradiction, historical flaws, highly questionable authorship and strong reliance on fantastic supernatural events that are just the stuff of fantasy. When I dug deeper into the origins of Christian myth, what I found was deeply disturbing - it's a grand deception.
Let's consider your molten sulfur motivation for a moment, that is simply not primarily how Christianity is packaged and marketed these days (except to children), it's now all about emphasis on the New Testament and Jesus since judgement day is just not a popular theme to the educated masses of today.
Let me ask you though, how do you define belief and what measure or degree of this belief (since some doubt is usually present) is sufficient to avoid a long swim in the sulfur? Can I have an each way bet (Pascal's wager) by professing belief just in case, after all that is the only prerequisite set out by Jesus for heavenly inheritance? Since you seem to be a fundamentalist, feel free to through in a few lines of scripture to support your answers.
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And if you believe in one of those very special christian denominations,
you don't need the whole of the belief system.
Or even a large part, like God or the Holy Trinity.
Just "accept Jesus" and you will have eternal life.
You don't even wait until you die?!
Just "accept Jesus" and you will have eternal life!
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My belief is dat miracles do happen whether we believe in dem or not and is not tied to any religion. All u need is faith and believe in the goodness of life.
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I always find this a fascinating question. How do you believe if you don't believe?
If, for instance, my reasoning processes makes me conclude that Jesus was not the son of God, yet I want to be saved (in case I am wrong), how do you do that? You know deep in your heart that it is untrue, yet professing that it is true assumes God can be fooled.
If you don't believe, you can only feign belief, so if you think Pascal's wager is worth accepting, then you are saying that you believe in God (an entity you are assuming is all knowing) to be on the safe side while at the same time implying that the God you believe in is not God (because you know if he was all knowing, he would see through your pretence and know you to be a fake).
IMO, to think you can fool God is a bigger insult to him than to simply not believe in him because the evidence you have been given is insufficient according to the brain that you have been given. If God is all merciful and all forgiving, surely he will not damn you for eternity for that?