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Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical

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Yes US which has been a predominantly Christian country does have one of the worst rates of moral decay. This has occurred as the nation has become more and more atheistic.
 
For you guys everything is relative.
You cannot have atheism and moral absolutes. Great atheist philosophers like Neitszche recognized this.
You can make up whatever rules you choose. Nothing is absolutely right or wrong.
It's all just opinion either minority or majority, even that doesn't matter. It doesn't make it right or wrong.

I'll trust my standards to the one who resurrected from the dead. I'll trust him to define the standards of right and wrong, to tell me the origin, meaning and designation of life. There is no one more reliable.

But hey, maybe those whose minds developed from monkeys minds should decide? The rational coming from irrational are better equipped to decide? By all means trust yourself, trust your scientist, your philosopher. Pick and choose. It's all relative anyway.

Not for me though guys. I'll take reality thanks. I'll listen to the one who created it all, while you live by your own opinions.

I couldn't think of anything more arrogant than someone whose mind evolved from a monkey's mind thinking that they can reach a conclusion on what universal truth is!
 
DocK said:
This is the guts of the issue for me, and what annoys me the most about a lot of "religious people". We have laws, which have been arrived at via a democratically (at least in our country) elected govt. Why then do I have to be subjected to those who think their particular beliefs take precedence over the law when it comes to issues such as abortion, pre-marital sex, contraception, divorce, same-sex marriage, euthanasia, whether I should bare my flesh/eat what I like etc etc. I know not all of those issues are yet legal in Australia, but I firmly feel that if left to our democratic process - where we all get an equal say - they may very well be. The point is that we should all have a say in what becomes legal and acceptable, and not be forced into acceding to the wishes of those who have particular religious beliefs. Nobody is seeking to make any of these things compulsory!

I have no desire to persuade anyone to undertake any action that goes against their personal beliefs, and would not support any govt that did. Why then must I put up with doorknockers and sermonisers who seek to impose their beliefs on the community at large? It's frustrating that most non-believers seem quite content to let others follow whatever religious beliefs they choose, no matter how bizarre or illogical we may consider them to be, but this consideration is not reciprocated. Indeed the opposite seems to be the norm - with the faithful determined to either convert or dominate those that don't share their beliefs and values.
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Agree 100% Dock.
I watched my dad fade away over 8 years, a once proud man reduced to a 28kg man in the fetal position at his passing.
It's a shame those with religous beliefs, seems to take precedence over compassion and respect for peoples rights.
As has been shown, in other aspects of life.

My first and probably last post on this thread.lol
It is easier debating with Ifocus on politics, than debating religion.lol
 
Chris45 said:
I agree and I don't know exactly where DocK lives and why s/he feels so strongly about religious doorknockers. I'm only 5km from Surfers and I've found that religious doorknockers have considerably more respect for my "Do Not Knock" sign than non-religious, and probably atheist, doorknockers such as electricity company doorknockers, solar panel doorknockers, political doorknockers, etc. etc.

I haven't had a religious doorknocker bother me for about twenty years but I've had plenty of the others so I wonder why DocK singles out religious doorknockers as if there's a constant stream of them knocking on her/his door, but doesn't seem to be bothered by any of the others? Sounds a little bit hypocritical to me. :rolleyes:
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Perhaps my use of the term "doorknocker" was not strictly accurate - although I do get at least 5 or 6 a year. Maybe I should invest in a sign. My meaning, which I thought was clear, was my annoyance at often having other people's views thrust upon me - whether they be literally at my front door, on tv, in politics, media, education etc. It seems that so many areas of our lives, be it our marriages, health, methods of dying/contraception etc are being dictated or heavily influenced by the religious views of a segment of the community. It annoys me that some would seek to curtail my freedoms based upon a "holy book" or faith that I find to be incredulous. I'm happy for you to believe in whatever God you choose, and I don't deny that faith brings a lot of joy and comfort to a lot of people. There have been both great and evil things done in the name of a religion. What I find illogical though, is why actual laws should be based or heavily influenced on a non-proven, leap-of-faith belief system. Actually, that's not even strictly correct - it's probably more accurate to say that I don't get why I should be denied something based on something that you (insert faith of choice) believe, but I don't.

I can understand a person having a deep faith and wishing to live their life in accordance with the guidelines or doctrine of their faith. I struggle to understand why some simply cannot accept that some will never believe as they do, without some evidence. As has been said, it often seems that those of faith seek to impose their views, via education, politics etc, on society at large, but those of no particular faith rarely seek to remove the rights of the faithful to their churches, beliefs etc.
 
Gosh DocK,

You're all over the shop.

God sent his son to die on the cross for your sins, to save you from going to hell.

It's the most important, urgent matter of all. You.
 
sptrawler said:
Agree 100% Dock.
I watched my dad fade away over 8 years, a once proud man reduced to a 28kg man in the fetal position at his passing.
It's a shame those with religous beliefs, seems to take precedence over compassion and respect for peoples rights.
As has been shown, in other aspects of life.

My first and probably last post on this thread.lol
It is easier debating with Ifocus on politics, than debating religion.lol
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I think you're entirely correct there, sptrawler. I think I'll leave this thread alone too.
 
pavilion103 said:
Yes US which has been a predominantly Christian country does have one of the worst rates of moral decay. This has occurred as the nation has become more and more atheistic.
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Again you stick your head in the sand. Are you going to reject every single study that shows that social ills are higher among the more religious than the less religious and those societies that have moved away from religion have had a reduction in social ills.

Why don't you for once put up some facts to support your arguments.
 
pavilion103 said:
I couldn't think of anything more arrogant than someone whose mind evolved from a monkey's mind thinking that they can reach a conclusion on what universal truth is!
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Pav, I thought your opinions were worth respecting when you put up some arguments against evolution, although you never commented on the rebuttals I posted. I see you are now out there with the Ken Hams of this world. Have you ever even studied the most basics of evolution. You are just parroting the silly statements made by the young earth creationists.

And how self defeating that statement is. Whether you think we are all the result of evolution or we were created just as we are today, if we can't reach a conclusion of what universal truth is, then neither can you. Just because you may believe in the Bible doesn't make what it says a universal truth. There are several thousand other religions that all say their book or revelations are also expressing universal truths.

Any person with a rational mind, even if a strong believer such as yourself, must surely be honest enough with themselves to admit that what they believe to be true is purely subjective.
 
Chris45 said:
... respect for my "Do Not Knock" ...
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I had two illiterates knocking recently.
I simply ignored them and they eventually wandered off.


P.S.
My mentor had a dog who would let them up to the front door, ... and then bail them up.
Then he would lecture them on the "beliefs of Steinitz" and the esoteric, and "the Absolute".

They were terrified.
They never came twice.

Hilarious!
 
I just watched a great new series on SBS tonight called "Everything and Nothing". It explains the majesty of our universe through the science and discoveries of mankind's greatest minds; Euclid, Galileo, Gauss, Einstein and Hubble, to name a few. It may only be in two parts, as tonight discussed "Everything" and next week it will be "Nothing", which I thing will be fascinating.

Some here may find it confronting. However, you can alternatively tune in to Foxtel's ACC channel, where the majesty of our universe will be explained to you by talking snakes and burning bushes.:)

As an aside, something I learned last week (If you like Astronomy, you should consider following Neil deGrasse Tyson on Facebook or Twitter; he always has some interesting facts). Apparently when you look at the setting sun, you are looking at a mirage. When the "bottom" of the sun appears to touch the horizon, in actuality the "top" of the sun has just sunk below the horizon. The atmosphere at horizon level bends light (like looking at a stick that appears bent when you poke it in water) to roughly the equivalent of the observed sun's diameter at sunset.
 
I watched that show too, bellenuit, and found it very interesting. I enjoyed it.

Thanks for the interesting facts on the Sun.
 
Finally we have a school principal with the courage to speak out against the religious indoctrination of children in schools...

Primary school principals shut down religious education classes

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/primary-school-principals-shut-down-religious-education-classes-20140216-32ty8.html

The key quote for me regarding so called Christian religious education (CRE) classes...
"It is not education," Mr Kelly said. "It has no value whatsoever. It is rubbish - hollow and empty rhetoric … My school teachers are committed to teaching children, not indoctrinating them."
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This of course is one of the more insidious acts carried out by the religious, programming the mind of a child to accept religious myth as fact with the goal of creating a lifelong convert to the cult of religious belief. Saving their lost little souls from imagined hellfire is one pretense for such behavior but the real goal is perpetuation of the faith since it's more difficult to recruit/convert adults to the cult of believers.

Christian mythology (including talking serpents, original sin, 7 day creation stories, virgin births, death defying resurrection etc.) is not fact and should never be represented as such to anyone, especially children.
 
I wonder if we have any principals with the courage to speak out against the philosophy "theory" of evolution being passed off as science?
 
bellenuit said:
As an aside, something I learned last week (If you like Astronomy, you should consider following Neil deGrasse Tyson on Facebook or Twitter; he always has some interesting facts). Apparently when you look at the setting sun, you are looking at a mirage. When the "bottom" of the sun appears to touch the horizon, in actuality the "top" of the sun has just sunk below the horizon. The atmosphere at horizon level bends light (like looking at a stick that appears bent when you poke it in water) to roughly the equivalent of the observed sun's diameter at sunset.
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Neil deGrasse Tyson must watch QI :D

 
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bellenuit said:
Again you stick your head in the sand. Are you going to reject every single study that shows that social ills are higher among the more religious than the less religious and those societies that have moved away from religion have had a reduction in social ills.

Why don't you for once put up some facts to support your arguments.
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It's funny that segregation persisted the longest in the "Bible Belt". Moral decay appears to be shorthand for "doesn't share my beliefs anymore".
 
Chris45 said:
Neil deGrasse Tyson must watch QI :D
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I stand corrected. I must have picked it up from QI and confused it with much of the stuff Tyson posts on a daily basis. BTW, Tyson is hosting a new science series that I think has just started in the US. It is called COSMOS and is a follow on from the series of the same name that won many accolades when presented by Carl Sagan a few decades ago.
 
bellenuit said:
Good on you Denmark. This is hardly an example of a country moving away from religion showing a decline in moral values. Quite the opposite!

Denmark to Ban Halal Slaughter Methods

http://www.iqna.ir/en/News/1375598
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Agree 100%!!! :xyxthumbs They should also ban the importation of halal and kosher meat.

The slaughtering of animals should be as quick and painless as humanly possible, and no animals should be made to suffer unnecessarily because of some stupid religious tradition. :mad:
 
pavilion103 said:
I wonder if we have any principals with the courage to speak out against the philosophy "theory" of evolution being passed off as science?
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I presume you put "theory" in quotes because you wanted to ensure people didn't confuse its usage by scientists with common everyday usage of the word. Theory, when used in a scientific environment, means the best explanation available of a process and has not yet been falsified. It is a robust explanation and its robustness is strengthened when it also accurately predicts events that have yet to be discovered, as the Theory of Evolution has.

I presume your quotes also is meant to highlight that "theory" only applies to the mechanics of evolution (random mutation combined with natural selection) not the fact of evolution. That evolution happens is a proven fact. How it happens is what the theory is about.
 
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