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An infinite number of times!
How many times can you divide that same something by (2-2)?
Religion, Science, Scepticism, Philosophy and things metaphysical
- Thread starter bellenuit
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How many times can you divide that same something by (2-2)?
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A person claiming the Christian label, doing a particular thing, is not what makes that particular thing, a Christian thing to do! What does make a person's actions Christian, is adherence to Christ's teachings!
Acts in violation of those teachings are not Christianity!
Here's a passage from the New Testament in which Christ speaks of the basis of all laws:
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kj...k=Matthew&chapno=22&startverse=34&endverse=40
Here's a passage from the Old Testament in which the decalogue features:
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=304502
So Mr. "My beliefs are evidence based and the only rational choice" (or words to that effect)
Show me where in Christ's commandments, or teachings, the killing of witches is allowed?
Show me where in Christ's commandments, or teachings, the persecution of homosexuals is allowed?
Show me where in Christ's commandments, or teachings, the prohibition of birth control is to be found?
In light of the dishonesty shown in your persistent misrepresentations of Christianity, how can you justly claim to the superiority of your imagined secular morality?
That's a common play used by muslims actually. I doubt all of Christianity would have missed it.
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
And yet shortly after He speaks of the new improved morals/modifications , so He obviously wasn't contradicting Himself. There are a few more verses too, but it would get complicated posting here.
You're trying hard to find something immoral in Christianity but so far you haven't done it. Maybe it's a concern you have, since the perfection found in Christian morals attests to the existence of God. So you plug away trying to find something faulty. The pro debaters also do this.
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The scientific community changed that now.
It's no longer AD, it's CE - the Common Era.
BC was Before Christ. It's now BCE - Before Christ Existed, jk. Before the Common Era.
Christians still get to have the "common era" starting from their Lord's birth year though.
I noticed the Buddhist also have their own year. Just to show the world that Buddha was over 500 years before Christ.
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What is "Christianity"?
Is it something Jesus said? What's in the old and new testament. Is it what has been done by all Christian state since Constantine adopted Christianity as a state religion.
The teachings that's attributed to Jesus... maybe all, or most, of what Jesus preached might be good moral code.
But if you define the actions of what has been done by Christian state/kingdom; by the Church; define Christianity by some of the stuff in the Bible... you'd probably find greater moral philosophy in a typical fortune cookie.
I mean, a person would have to ignore a whole lot of bad that's been done since Christ was adopted as the head mascot to say that Christianity is pure and perfect morality.
Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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As I said, denying rights to gay couples is an example of Christian immorality, but the fact that you are brain washed into the culture means you probably can’t see it.
Also the very foundation of Christianity is based on scape goating, I happen to find that immorral.
If Christ were being killed in front of me I would do everything in my power to stop it, you however would take joy in his sacrifice and think it a good thing, then stand around and pretend to end his flesh and drink his blood.
Value Collector
Have courage, and be kind.
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My year starts on the 1st of July Tink, but happy half year to you. Lol.
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As far as I can see, all the so called Christian morals can be encapsulated in the sentence "do unto others as you would like them to do unto you". All the 10 commandments, except the first 3 (which have more to do with a jealous and insecure God than morality), can are encapsulated in that sentence. Even the exhortation "love thy neighbour as thyself" is encompassed.
And if that sentence is the sum of Christian morality, how do you account for the fact that those same words (paraphrased, but with the same meaning) were expressed by others long before Christ was born. Thus what is Christian morality other than a re-expression of long held secular morality?
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hey, that's funny.
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The Church actually came up with that most successful marketing campaign centuries later. 'If you accept Jesus as your savior, then he takes away all your sins.' So I guess it's a foundation of modern Christianity.
The deal maker for most of them, then and now, seems to be that he was reportedly - a zombie for a day!
Frankly even if that happened, you know he actually took 3 days to die like most on the cross, not 9hrs, I was more impressed with what said, like 'God, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Whilst they were hammering nails into him. That was pretty cool!
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I agree that Christianity cannot rightly claim to hold the monopoly over morality, on account of its presence in teachings that predated the birth of Christ.
But where did you get the idea that the Christian morality, or its earlier incarnations, was of secular origin?
How can a secular perspective, claim the existence of rightful or wrongful actions, in a material world/universe that, by merit of secularist belief, is an accidental outcome of a chaotic maelstrom of matter, and therefore devoid of any intent or purpose?
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Jesus could just be one of the better teachers during the period.
Maybe being in the desert and under Roman occupation give him more cache if he claims to be the son of God.
Confucius and Lao Tzu were just mere mortals. They do not believe in the gods... but there are temples built for them, and Taoism has a bunch of fairies and magic.
So maybe, just maybe, all the magical fairy stuff Christian believes in... were just made up too.
Either way, probably better to do what Thomas Jefferson did with the Bible: take all the miracles, witchhunts and fairytales out... then simply record the moral teachings.
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How does any of what you have said here, answer the questions raised in my post?
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You ask: But where did you get the idea that the Christian morality, or its earlier incarnations, was of secular origin?
So... take that Golden Rule. One of the pillars of Christian morality.
It's practically universal across all cultures and religion.
Take other teachings and moral philosophies... universal.
So yes, no religion or culture can claim to have a monopoly on awesomeness.
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I ask again, how does any of what you have said here, answer the questions raised in my post?
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Where else did it come from? If you suggest some divine intervention, then on what basis do you hold that? If a divine intervention, when on our evolutionary scale did it happen if it predated Christianity? And if the result of divine intervention, why has it changed over time?
As has been explained by VC on numerous occasions, morality as has been honed throughout the ages is entirely consistent with other aspects of our evolution that allowed to to reach where we currently are in our evolutionary path. Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you is far more likely to allow groups to survive than a selfish free for all. As societies evolved, those social attitudes that helped the species survive and reproduce were, by natural selection, also those attitudes that were going to be passed on.
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That hardly explains the behaviour of banks and other financial institutions here and around the world does it ?
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That hardly explains the behaviour of banks and other financial institutions here and around the world does it ?
Most of whom, especially in the US, probably profess to believe in God!!!!!
Even when Hitler's assassination failed, cause he left the room when the bomb went off, Adolf took that as divine intervention and an endorsement the path he was on by the Lord! After all the Jews did kill his son!
Tisme
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Shame some of the members here, who resort to personal insults when they are losing an argument, don't live by that rule.
If morality and ethics were the be all and end all that existed since god was a boy, why is there a persistent need for the social conscience warriors to keep pushing their agenda for the outcast few and in the process causing discomfort for the docile silent majority who are the survival group ?
Morality and ethics are a core foundation of the Jews and their faith, that predates Chinese philosophers and other barbarians
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This still isn't answering my questions.
If survival of the species is "good" as opposed to "not good" (i.e. "neutral or bad") , how was this logically determined from a secular viewpoint?