Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Religion IS crazy!

Jump to new
Gringotts Bank said:
I'm glad you said this. This is the root of your difficulty in having your prayers answered. We...are...not...here. That's the whole bloody point! If you truly understood this, you'd be able to manifest.

You won't get a more succinct and in-depth answer to your questions about prayer, what it is and how it works.
Click to expand...

You mightn’t be here, mate, but I certainly am.

As for my ‘difficulty in having my prayers answered’....I don’t believe in God, therefore I don’t pray and I don't have any prayers to answer.

And as for my ‘questions about prayer’.....I didn't ask any and I don’t have any.
 
trainspotter said:
Also a great way to get rid of Godbothers is to answer the door in a smoking jacket and ask them inside to discuss ecumenical matters. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I was busy trimming trees with my chainsaw last time the Jehovah's Witnesses turned up at my place.
When they told me the lord was coming, I said ‘Great, I hope he knows how to use a chainsaw – he can give me a hand with these trees!’.

I’ll never have much time for religious fanatics who are so brainwashed by something the Bible says, that they’ll let their children die rather than give them a life-saving blood transfusion.

I had several life-saving blood transfusions when I was under treatment for Leukemia. If Christians are correct in their belief that there’s a superior being called God, and he’s as loving and compassionate as they believe him to be, then it’s highly unlikely that he’s going to blacklist me or anyone else whose had a blood transfusion to save their life.
 
bunyip said:
I was busy trimming trees with my chainsaw last time the Jehovah's Witnesses turned up at my place.
When they told me the lord was coming, I said ‘Great, I hope he knows how to use a chainsaw – he can give me a hand with these trees!’.

I’ll never have much time for religious fanatics who are so brainwashed by something the Bible says, that they’ll let their children die rather than give them a life-saving blood transfusion.

I had several life-saving blood transfusions when I was under treatment for Leukemia. If Christians are correct in their belief that there’s a superior being called God, and he’s as loving and compassionate as they believe him to be, then it’s highly unlikely that he’s going to blacklist me or anyone else whose had a blood transfusion to save their life.
Click to expand...

I had a couple pray for me as I was Loading my board on the roof rack.
It worked---I wasn't eaten by a shark!---this time.

Who'd be god?
Really.

For all the imperfections in the world
For all the imperfections in his creations--mainly humans!
He/she really needs to improve.
Yet --- he/she is WORSHIPED!

Glad I'm a DUCK.
 
tech/a said:
I had a couple pray for me as I was Loading my board on the roof rack.
It worked---I wasn't eaten by a shark!---this time.

Who'd be god?
Really.

For all the imperfections in the world
For all the imperfections in his creations--mainly humans!
He/she really needs to improve.
Yet --- he/she is WORSHIPED!

Glad I'm a DUCK.
Click to expand...

What amuses me about people who believe in the power of prayer, is how on earth do they think their God has time to listen to them!

There are hundreds of millions of Muslims in the world, spread across many different couuntries and time zones. And they pray three times a day at least. So at any given time of the day or night there must be hundreds of thousands or maybe even millions of prayers going out to this feller called God or Allah or whatever else he gets called. And that’s just from the Muslims, let alone the millions of other people from various religions who pray every day.
This God character must have a prodigious capacity for work if he can handle the tremendous volume of prayer traffic that comes his way 24/7!:)
 
God would obviously be outside of time and is all knowing and all powerful. If there was a God do you think he would sit there with the clock running with a call centre of people in heaven answering calls frantically and sending the most important ones through to him?
We take the words all knowing and all powerful so lightly! Think about that for a moment.

If anyone cares to genuinely explore evidence for the power of prayer, look up:

1) Azusa street revival
2) Smith Wigglesworth

Examine the eye witness accounts and many testimonies. Examine them by the same standard or evidence you would for other historical claims. Be fair, thorough and consistent in your research. If you still choose not to believe in what happened, then at least it won't be because of a lack of evidence but rather a personal choice.
 
Our lager
Which art in barrels
Hallowed be thy drink
Thy will be drunk (I will be drunk)
At home as if in tavern
Give us this day our foamy head
And forgive us our spillages
As we forgive those who spill against us
And lead us not to incarceration
But deliver us from hangovers
For thine is the beer, the bitter, the lager
For ever and ever....
barmen

*hic*:drink:
 
pavilion103 said:
God would obviously be outside of time and is all knowing and all powerful. If there was a God do you think he would sit there with the clock running with a call centre of people in heaven answering calls frantically and sending the most important ones through to him?
We take the words all knowing and all powerful so lightly! Think about that for a moment.

If anyone cares to genuinely explore evidence for the power of prayer, look up:

1) Azusa street revival
2) Smith Wigglesworth

Examine the eye witness accounts and many testimonies. Examine them by the same standard or evidence you would for other historical claims. Be fair, thorough and consistent in your research. If you still choose not to believe in what happened, then at least it won't be because of a lack of evidence but rather a personal choice.
Click to expand...

PAV

There are many "Miracles" in life without a label attached to them.
God/Prayer etc.

Things can actually "Happen"

After 4 Billion Years the Human race occurred.
A billion before that "Dinosaurs" had the earth to themselves
and in a billion years time You can bet we wont be here.

It will just---happen---god or no god.

I don't know about you but I cant remember before birth.
I'm pretty sure I wont remember anything after death.

So Ill live the Now Now.
Ill live the then---then.

I don't "need" to know what's after death just as I don't need to know what was before life.
It will---be---then---as I am ---now.
 
I find this interesting. You're a man of evidence Tech. :cool:

There is a difference between 'miracles' just happening in the course of day to day life and well documented and testified cases of mass healings over a reasonable period of time by people proclaiming that they can heal in the name of Jesus and then backing it up. There is no better testimony of credibility than results!

You and others say that you don't believe that there is a God (any form of god), but my question is what evidence supports a self-existing universe?

1) Where there is a beginning there has to be a cause. There are zero examples of something coming from nothing.
2) There are zero examples of life coming from non-life

That is just to start off the discussion.
Think for one moment. The universe is not eternal. How can it come from nothing? This should be the end of the debate. There is not a way around this.

Then consider specifically in terms of evolution
3) Order and design. The most logical conclusion of such complex design is a designer
4) Irreducible complexity of the human cell does not even allow evolution
5) No examples of increases in genetic information (only duplication/mutation). Only natural selection is a fact, which is the opposite, a reduction of genetic information


I'm not saying "Accept Jesus" because of this. That is a completely separate discussion. I'm asking:

What does the evidence point to? Some form of God/creator


The only alternative is evolution but consider the scientific evidence:
- no examples of something from nothing
- no examples of life from non-life
- Irreducible complexity of the cell
- No examples of genetic information increasing
- Genetic entropy


All I am saying in this post is that the evidence strongly points to some sort of creator and completely refutes marco evolution (not natural selection) even being possible. I will change my mind if there is evidence for it. But at the moment there isn't. I've done that many times with many topics.
How can you believe with such blind faith?


Tech, if I analysed a chart in this way (a belief in evolution (and therefore no God) despite the lack of evidence for evolution, ignoring evidence pointing to God) and drew my trading conclusions in this way you would wonder why you have bothered to utter a single sentence to me in the past couple of years! :banghead:

I will go where the evidence points me. 100% of the time. Any topic. Regardless of how unpopular the view is or how I will be scrutinise. Truth is all that matters to me.

I enjoy a healthy debate, but I will not be afraid to challenge views! :xyxthumbs
 
I could understand some poor villager in deepest, darkest Africa believing this cr@p...

Wigglesworth claimed to have healed numerous people suffering from cancer, which he described as 'a living evil spirit'. He believed that ninety percent of diseases were 'satanic in origin'.[10] His methods often involved hitting, slapping or punching the afflicted part of the body. On a number of occasions his approach to persons suffering from stomach complaints was to punch them in the stomach, sometimes with such force that it propelled them across the room. When challenged on this, his response was "I don't hit them, I hit the devil". [11]
Click to expand...

The next bit is a beauty...it's not that I'm a charlatan it's that the poor sod with cancer doesn't believe.:rolleyes:

When confronted with the failure of a healing, Wrigglesworth's response was to accuse the sufferer of being "full of unbelief"
Click to expand...

Reminds me of when Uri Geller couldn't bend the spoon because it had been swapped without his knowing; "I don't feel strong tonight" was his reason.

If this witch doctor is an example of the "power of prayer", then religion is indeed crazy.

I wonder if the good doctor ever prescribed eye of newt, or toe of frog.:D
 
What is it with these religious fruit cakes? They leave the particular thread indicating that it's not for them and then darn well return.

To top it all, "proofs", such as they are (worthless, in my view) are offered to defend the fact that they have faith when the rest of us could not give a rats whether or not they believe. Nor have they been asked them to defend the fact they have a faith.
 
pavilion103 said:
You and others say that you don't believe that there is a God (any form of god), but my question is what evidence supports a self-existing universe?

1) Where there is a beginning there has to be a cause. There are zero examples of something coming from nothing.
2) There are zero examples of life coming from non-life

That is just to start off the discussion.
Think for one moment. The universe is not eternal. How can it come from nothing?
Click to expand...


I don't think you will find anyone on this forum that can provide sufficient explanation and reasoning to how the universe came out of 'nothing'...... unless we have a quantum physicist in our midst.

The theories behind quantum physics can be as hard to understand and more importantly to beleive as what is written in the bibble.

Im sure if you directed the same question to Stephen Hawking he could provide an answer, whether it makes sense to you or not is another thing.

Just the same as a priest could provide me with an explanation of something out of the bibble (sorry I havent read it so I cant reference any particular story) and it is highly unlikely that it would be convincing to me.
 
pavilion103 said:
1) Where there is a beginning there has to be a cause. There are zero examples of something coming from nothing.
Click to expand...

Pavillion, if by chance you'd been born into a strict Muslim family in an Arab country, you'd be posting about a very different "truth".

The fact that you would argue the point with a Muslim, Zoroastrian, Zennist, Hindu or whatever means that your truth (and theirs) is just a product of a certain upbringing. Such a relative "truth" can't be true.

Have you ever considered that your story of 'what is true' would be entirely different under different birth circumstances? Imagine you as a baby girl instead of a baby boy. Imagine you being born in Northern Africa instead of Australia. Imagine you in basically any other circumstance and your "truth" will change. You believe it's real because you believe your thoughts. But hundreds of enlightened people throughout history have advised us not to believe out thoughts; that they are just random neuronal firings conditioned by memory, desire and fear.

Here's another way to think of it - a thought experiment. Six new born babies (identical sextuplets) are put up for adoption. Each child is randomly assigned to be raised with one of six different religious families in six very different cultural contexts. Imagine each of the children after 20 years in their family. Imagine the six of them arguing with each other.
 
GB don't ask where I've been born, or where anyone has been born.
Take for instance China - communist country to having the most Christians worldwide. Born into a communist belief system yet Christianity spread like wildfire.
Same with Rome in it's time.
The centre of Christianity has gone from Middle East, Rome, Europe, South America, China.
All cultures with contrary belief systems.
Adopted Christianity because it makes sense.
How is that for going against culture and preconditioned beliefs!!!

Simply look at the evidence before us and reach a conclusion. Irrespective of who is saying it, where they are from, and what they believe.


Wasn't going to post that originally.
Just came on to say please don't mistake my silence for rudeness or lack of ability to answer questions.
I prefer to pop in every now and then and add my 2c, rather than engage in every single post directed back at me (which are numerous!!!).

I enjoy the open dialouge with you guys. Interesting to have a bit of a discussion with Tech also, who it is usually mainly trading with (I'm not complaining!).

Enjoy guys, might catch you soon.
Will pop in randomly sometime I suppose.
 
Evidence like religion is a man made realism.

I have no idea what it is we are actually trying to equate in this time and space.
Are we a continuum existing on a pin head within another continuum on a pin head---etc etc
then are we running parallel with infinite continuum's--blah blah

See the imagination is limitless.

The arrogance of the human species to believe that it alone knows that his perception of everything is explained by a GOD---his GOD---is astounding.
Not only that but you have to be special to be a part of his chosen group!

A Billion years ago there was no human race.
There was no perception or concept of GOD
Now there are humans who need a GOD so as there were SUN/RAIN/VOLCANO/FAMINE blah blah GODS
there is simply GOD.
In a Billion years time there wont be a human race.
There will be no perception or concept of GOD then.

But there will be something un related to a GOD---it will be what it will be.

See like trading I don't care if I'm right or wrong I just live in the reality of what I know---NOW.
That's all I actually DO KNOW.
 
pavilion103 said:
GB don't ask where I've been born, or where anyone has been born.
Take for instance China - communist country to having the most Christians worldwide. Born into a communist belief system yet Christianity spread like wildfire.
Same with Rome in it's time.
The centre of Christianity has gone from Middle East, Rome, Europe, South America, China.
All cultures with contrary belief systems.
Adopted Christianity because it makes sense.
How is that for going against culture and preconditioned beliefs!!!
Click to expand...

I know the Chinese are getting into Christianity big time. It's like some sort of mass conversion. However there's a very strong trend in China to mimic and desire anything Western (American, in particular). Some asian people even have their hair and eyes surgically altered so as to look more Western. Whilst birthplace and upbringing are very powerful determinants of belief, we can still be swayed to follow the crowd when it changes direction. China is going through the same gyrations that America did during the industrial revolution. It's all about consumerism, hedonism and accumulation - being "one up" on your neighbour at absolutely any cost. America has been there and done that; now it is languishing in some sort of depressed and directionless state because it has seen that a society built around greed doesn't work too well. The Chinese are yet to find out that greed isn't healthy for society. The fire still burns.

Consider what sort of guilt it creates to have such a society where competition for money is so powerful. And how to allay this guilt? Eastern religions were never any good at allaying guilt, so they get forgotten. But Christianity has the answer. If I become a Christian, I can screw my fellow man for all he is worth and so long as I admit my sins and ask for forgiveness, I will be taken into heaven.

Jesus was not a Christian. And if he was still alive today, he'd probably deride and discredit Christianity like we are here. The whole set up is rotten.

Amen.
 
Top