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Religion IS crazy!

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pavilion103 said:
It also boggles the mind to think that sensible intelligent adults could believe in evolution.

A kid can tell you that something can't come from nothing. How ridiculous.

Yeh, something evolved from pond slime and somehow programmed itself to develop over time into a human. Yep, I'm sold!

Natural selection of course ( losing genetic information). But macro evolution (the complete opposite of gaining genetic information) = no evidence.

Isn't science supposed to be something that is observable and repeatable? Evolution is a philosophy which even Darwin said would be in serious question if the cell was found to be irreducible complex like it is today. In this day and age Darwin's THEORY would not have got off the ground.
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Such is the reasoning of a slave to religious mythology. Your poor understanding of the implications of evolution theory is inexcusable and deliberate ignorance. Evolution theory is not a belief system, is not a godless philosophy and makes no claims or suppositions about the origin of the universe. It stems from observable generational genetic mutation and the fossil record. Your irrational contempt for this theory about how life emerged on this planet is based on the absurd notion held by many religious Luddites that if someone can claim a flaw in evolution theory then it must be totally false and the only plausible alternative is a sky god of some metaphysical description.

Let me spell this out for you, whether aspects of evolution theory are totally false or only partially correct, that does not by default make a compelling case for the existence of any invisible architect of any human description. Accepting that the large body of scientific research around evolution theory has merit is not in any way equivalent to belief in invisible beings or faith in the total infallibility of things written in iron-age magic books.

Are you people INSANE!
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If by insane you mean strong belief in things like angels, demons, satanic serpents, virgin births, arks and that the earth is less than 10,000 years old - not me.
 
pavilion103 said:
Yeh, something evolved from pond slime and somehow programmed itself to develop over time into a human. Yep, I'm sold!
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Well... How would an independent observer be able to tell the difference between pond slime and a catholic priest?
 
bellenuit said:
I think the last dozen or so posts are off topic and should be moved to the "Is There a God?" thread , where there has been numerous discussions on evolution etc.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6781&highlight=god
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The problem with this thread and that one you point out is that they are rendered totally useless by the fact that terms have not been defined. God - yes or God- no. Vote now! Means nothing...less than nothing to anyone.

Voltaire said "If you would converse with me, define your terms." So all this argument is totally pointless really. 29 pages of a thread...and no one knows what the other is talking about.

Personally I disagree with everyone on this thread, both the religious and the non-religious. When I read what people say about politics and economics and trading, I can see value in a lot of the contributions people make, but here there's just no value at all, on either side. It's so outdated, so old hat, so fuc.king last century...the whole argument, BOTH SIDES.

Remember Good Will Hunting, the movie?

Here's an excerpt that always comes to mind whenever I have the misfortune of reading this thread:




WILL
You fuc.kin' people baffle me. Spend all your money on
these fu.ckin' fancy books you surround yourselves with
'em... and they're the wrong fu.cking books.

SEAN
Then what're the right fu.ckin' books, Will?

WILL
Hey, whatever blows your hair back.
 
Gringotts Bank said:
The problem with this thread and that one you point out is that they are rendered totally useless by the fact that terms have not been defined.
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There are simply infinite ways to define the term "God" and no consensus is possible except among like minded cults. The dictionary definition is only one such attempt. Who or what this fictional entity called God is conjured up to be by the major religions is not the point. Strong belief in the the competing claims in magic books is tearing human society apart. This is happening today as well as in the past. The arguments against religion have changed over time as scientific discovery has advanced. Some are old and some are new. Changing the views of the religious requires a challenge to the very core of what they believe and yes, what they believe is centuries old dogma scribed in magic books. Posting articles about religious lunacy does not convince the religious to review their beliefs since such events are written off as extremist and unrepresentative behavior. The replies by the religious apologists here is evidence of this.

Religion is indeed crazy and people such as Hitchens, Harris and Dawkins to name a few have advanced the argument against religious belief over the last decade and society never needed such debate more than now.

If you're so enlightened and somehow consider the discussion here last century why not move on instead of posting a vulgar rant?
 
bellenuit said:
I think the last dozen or so posts are off topic and should be moved to the "Is There a God?" thread , where there has been numerous discussions on evolution etc.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6781&highlight=god
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Gringotts Bank said:
The problem with this thread and that one you point out is that they are rendered totally useless by the fact that terms have not been defined. God - yes or God- no. Vote now! Means nothing...less than nothing to anyone.
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Yes, threads get off topic when they're inter-related. I think once the other thread has some people posting in that specific line of thought it might gather momentum. At the moment, the momentum is here.
 
kennas said:
Yes, threads get off topic when they're inter-related. I think once the other thread has some people posting in that specific line of thought it might gather momentum. At the moment, the momentum is here.
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Here's some of my own definitions that I have been using in my arguments. With these definitions, everything can easily be explained, religious, scientific and otherwise. They can comfortably explain the whole lot - nothing need be left out of the picture.

Mind:

-- aka self, aka ego, aka thought-stream.
-- mind is continuous 24 hours a day except in NREM sleep (deep sleep).
-- the deepest most cherished thought is the 'I' thought.
-- all other thoughts are layered on top of the 'I" thought.
-- all other thoughts relate to the 'I' thought
-- Even when you are very relaxed and peaceful, the 'I' thought is active. eg. who is peaceful? I am.
-- mind is the only thing standing between normal everyday consensus reality, and a level of consciousness that could be called God-realization or enlightenment..
-- mind is created mainly by left cerebral hemisphere activity
-- Mind can be temporarily switched off through hallucinogenic drug use. This is a dangerous incomplete and unreliable method.
-- Mind can be switched off by certain types of meditation and certain types of prayer.
-- Mind creates the body. It also creates time and space. Time and space literally cease to exist when the mind is made silent. Ecstasy and freedom from all fear happens. Desire ends. The body continues to live until it gets old and dies or gets sick and dies. When the ego re-boots after enlightenment, it is used as a "shell" to function in the World.

God:

-- aka Enlightenment, Realization, Truth, Light, Universal love
-- is not a thing, person, energy, wave/perticle. Is not a thing nor a no-thing.
-- can only be described in the negative (what it is not).
-- cannot be conceived of by the mind, since mind is the barrier (the only barrier)
-- ANY way the mind wants to conceive of God must necessarily be wrong and hence....
-- ALL beliefs are false. Not just all beliefs about God, but all beliefs full stop.
-- beliefs are false in a relative sense, since they are created by the mind. Mental activity is not reality, but a concept of reality (the finger which points to the moon is not the moon itself). Beliefs are simply a bunch of neurons deciding to fire a certain way. They have no inherent reality. This applies to scientific beliefs also - they are all false.
-- Anything you think about God is false. It has to be so, since it's the mind which is doing the imagining.
-- God is what existed before the Big Bang, and what gave rise to the Big Bang.
-- God is not "in" everything, since it is everything, including the profane, the ugly, the grotesque and the sinful. God is not synonymous with "goodness" as such, since goodness and badness is a mental concept. It is beyond good and evil.


Religious experience

-- Anything that you can experience is not the Ultimate, since there is a "you" who experienced it.
-- Some on this forum (eg Tink) have experienced bliss or love, lights, divine love etc. This is an important aspect of spirituality, but not God itself. God itself is when all experiences end. It's the end of everything you ever knew, including yourself. The body does not need to die for the self to die.
-- Spiritual experience is mind-created, and as such, illusory. When I say "illusory", I mean it lies at the same level of reality as what we call consensus reality. It can however be life changing, as it gives a glimpse of "something else" going on. Religious experiences can be extremely powerful.
-- When ancient (and some modern) texts talk about angels and demons, they actually do exist, but only at the mind-level. Anyone who has ingested an heroic dose of LSD reports that other-worldly beings do in fact exist in other dimensions. The robustness of this reality is far above that of say dreaming a dream at night. When we wake from a normal dream about weird creatures, we say "oh that was silly" and think nothing of it. When you come down after an LSD trip and have seen angels and demons, you say "MY GOD, they actually EXIST!!". This can happen with meditation and prayer also. One need not worry about angels and demons or other beings - it is truest to say that they both exist and they do not exist. Paradoxical, but only to the socialized mind.
-- Religious experiences must be completely set aside if one is to realize the Ultimate. They are of no significance in the end.

Love

-- Normal human love is pretty pathetic. It's so full of conditions that you could not really call it love. Divine love is unconditional. It loves the sinner and saint equally. People cannot truly love while the ego is intact.

True Religion

-- All the Greats - Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, Zoroaster, Krisha, Socrates, Lao Tse, Plato, Da Vinci, and some modern ones such as Adyashanti, Jed Mckenna, Richard Rose, Allan Watts.... on and on... lots of them. They all speak the same way. They all say "quiet the mind and see what happens".


You're welcome to have your own definitions, but these are mine, based upon a lot of study. They work.
 
FxTrader said:
Religion is indeed crazy and people such as Hitchens, Harris and Dawkins to name a few have advanced the argument against religious belief over the last decade and society never needed such debate more than now.
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I agree – religion is crazy - some of them dangerously so.
The following link throws some light on Islam, the ‘religion of peace’. Anyone who thinks this particular religion is no threat to Australia is not thinking clearly.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TodayTonight
 
pavilion103 said:
It also boggles the mind to think that sensible intelligent adults could believe in evolution.

A kid can tell you that something can't come from nothing. How ridiculous.

Yeh, something evolved from pond slime and somehow programmed itself to develop over time into a human. Yep, I'm sold!

Natural selection of course ( losing genetic information). But macro evolution (the complete opposite of gaining genetic information) = no evidence.

Isn't science supposed to be something that is observable and repeatable? Evolution is a philosophy which even Darwin said would be in serious question if the cell was found to be irreducible complex like it is today. In this day and age Darwin's THEORY would not have got off the ground.

Are you people INSANE!

I hope you don't trade like you reason about this stuff!!!
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Go read Virolution by Frank Ryan. The book was released in 2001 after the human genome was mapped. If you are looking for evidence in relation to the gaining of genetic information, you can find it here. If you are looking for observable and repeatable, the mechanism discussed in this book is observable and repeatable in every species on the planet. Have fun.
 
^^ That should lead to instant deportation.

Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, just go now.

I used to consider myself not to be a racist but these radical muslims have changed all that.
 
Lantern said:
^^ That should lead to instant deportation.

Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, just go now.

I used to consider myself not to be a racist but these radical muslims have changed all that.
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You’re not a racist for detesting people who behave like sub-human mongrels.

That bloke who made the king hit on the other muslim, he’s one of those low lifes who virtually created a mini riot by marching in protest aginst the film about muslims that was made oversears, and had nothing to do with Australia. To see him and his mob of goons ranting and raving and brandishing posters that said ‘BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT ISLAM’, shows us just how low this mob are, and how slack our authorities are for not hitting them with the full force of the law. It’s illegal to incite people to violence in this country. He speaks with a foreign accent, obviously he wasn’t born here, so why have we not deported him to the miserable desert that he and his kind crawled out of. I doubt if he or any of his pals even copped a fine over that little show of sick hatred. I wonder if he’ll cop any criminal penalty for the king hit – somehow I doubt it – at best he’s likely to get a slap over the wrist.

It’s a tragedy that successive Australian governments, through their bloody do-gooder policies, have set Australia on the road to the very same problems that plague every country that’s opened its doors to extremist religions.
 
Not impressed that we still have a daily lords prayer at the beginning of federal parliament. I would really like to see this changed
 
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