Religion IS crazy!

[Tink]

Tink, do you mind if I give you a little belated advice;

Don't argue with a fool...especially one with an obsession, such as a militant atheist. You are right about him preaching. Hatred of religion is his religion.

Thanks Calliope

I have worked that out.

 

[Value Collector]

Christian suicide attack

'Highly spiritual’ Oregon high school shooter Jared Padgett wrote plans to kill 'sinners' in diary: police

A leader at the teen's Mormon church said Padgett was 'highly regarded for his spirituality.'


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/oregon-school-shooter-wrote-plan-kill-sinners-cops-article-1.1829711

Yet another example of the bad stuff that can happen when you think your own thoughts are the words of the holy spirit.

 

[Value Collector]

Tink, do you mind if I give you a little belated advice;

Don't argue with a fool...especially one with an obsession, such as a militant atheist. You are right about him preaching. Hatred of religion is his religion.

Again I would ask you to provide an example where I have Preached unjustified hatred of religion.

A few posts ago you were trying to charge me with being a religious apologist, Now your saying Hatred of religion is my religion.

which one is it?

I also think cigarettes are bad for society, and we shouldn't let people force children to smoke, Am I in the anti smoking "religion" now too.

I think alcohol has some bad side effects too, if you try and say smoking is bad but alcohol is tops, I'll point out some bad stuff about alcohol, does that make me a smoking apologist?

 

[lindsayf]

Tink, do you mind if I give you a little belated advice;

Don't argue with a fool...especially one with an obsession, such as a militant atheist. You are right about him preaching. Hatred of religion is his religion.

that old chestnut....this seems to be served at approximately the point where the religious apologist is unable to counter the considered logic of an articulate athiest.

 

[Calliope]

I refer you to my post to Tink, VC

 

[Calliope]

that old chestnut....this seems to be served at approximately the point where the religious apologist is unable to counter the considered logic of an articulate athiest.

There are only a few more illogical and inarticulate posters than VC.

My fool's rule excludes me from any futher exchanges with you.

 

[overhang]

An article Uthman Badar, the Muslim who was banned from speaking.

The key points for me were

“This religion is extremely, and proudly, non-secular. What defines western society is secularism and democracy,” he says.

“Islam, and the Muslim world in particular, challenge secularism. It seeks to express itself politically and economically, as it does in all other aspects of life.”

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/w...llings-found-his-way-to-hizb-ut-tahrir-2014-6

Here we have a religion being completely open that they do not agree with our secular democratic way of life and believe that their religion should in fact govern policys. If you don't like our society then go and live in one of the many Arab country's that fit your culture.

I agree with others here that when they build up enough numbers with this kind of philosophy they will bring our society backwards, they will have a strong enough base that they can lobby the government into changes that match their ideology. We have ever so slowly stemmed the Christian influence in this country and now we're going to let another nutjob organisation bring us back to the dark ages. We need to learn from the negative impacts Christians have had on our society in the way of peoples liberty's and see we want no other institution to have that power.

 

[Calliope]

We have ever so slowly stemmed the Christian influence in this country and now we're going to let another nutjob organisation bring us back to the dark ages. We need to learn from the negative impacts Christians have had on our society in the way of peoples liberty's and see we want no other institution to have that power.

I think it is too late already.

Muslims to make up quarter of world's projected population of 8.3billion
72 countries already have one million or more Muslims
Britain to have more Muslims than Kuwait by 2030
The Muslim population in the UK will almost double to 5.5million within 20 years, it has been claimed.
Immigration and high birth rates will mean nearly one in ten Britons will be Muslim by 2030, according to a worldwide study about the spread of Islam.
And the forecasts mean Britain will have more Muslims than Kuwait

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...slims-double-5-5m-20-years.html#ixzz35jlfZ6Zp

There are certain things in Britain about which it is impossible to speak frankly. The birth rate of the Muslim population is a prime subject e.g.They outbreed the natives at the rate of ten to one.

 

[Julia]

As others have said, it's a fine line.

Without referring specifically to the cancelled speech, would you consider it acceptable to allow people to openly seek to recruit potential terrorists on the basis of supposed unfair treatment of certain sects in certain cultures ? Of course they wouldn't blatantly say "sign up inside the building after the speech", but like Hitler did they would generate a frenzy of vengeful feelings and then let events take their course. This sort of thing most probably goes on behind closed doors now with the result that people from this country have left to fight for terrorists overseas. Would we want this sort of thing to go public ?

The reason I raised it for discussion is that I don't believe it will go away because it is not allowed public expression, but at the same time I completely appreciate your point about the potential to encourage disaffected youth to join a cause. Often pretty much any cause will do.

But you are correct in saying that someone has to decide where to draw the line, and there is an argument for saying that if you let people present that sort of case in public then we will find out who they are and then could do something about it, but once having identified those people do you let them continue ? Some people could assume , listening to the 'recruiters' that they should attack "the enemy" wherever they can. Refer to the attempted attack on Holsworthy Army barracks. The people initiating these sort of vengeance reprisals could then become a national security threat, even though according to them they are just exercising their rights of free speech.

I think part of my questioning of the cancellation of the talk comes from the fact that it was part of a specific event "The Festival of Dangerous Ideas". The title of the event would seem to warn people that some of the topics would be diversive and controversial. Another topic is apparently "Women are Sexual Predators".

It's relevant to note that the title of the talk was not that of the speaker, but rather came from the organisers of the event, clearly trying to be provocative. They appear to have succeeded in that and perhaps in hindsight might have been a little less confronting.
People have, not unreasonably, assumed the speaker was in favour of honour killings.
I have no idea whether he is or not, but from what I've been able to gather, his message was more complex and about quite different concepts than that implied in the title.

Of course "incitement to violence" is an offence, but again it seems to be a matter of opinion where exactly the line is crossed between simply publicising alleged atrocities against alleged persecuted minorities and encouraging people to try and avenge those perceived assaults.

Your solution ?

I don't have one. I'm ambivalent about the whole issue. Equally appreciate both sides of the argument.

that old chestnut....this seems to be served at approximately the point where the religious apologist is unable to counter the considered logic of an articulate athiest.

+1. Exactly.
Value Collector, I congratulate you on your calm and rational responses to the sustained baiting.

 

[dutchie]

From Larry Pickering

http://pickeringpost.com/story/time-to-get-tough-on-terrorism/3440


TIME TO GET TOUGH ON TERRORISM
...or is it already too late?
14 hours ago
/
563 Comments

It has taken journalists to be jailed, Australians fighting for overseas terrorist groups, multiple gang rapes, narcotics killings and shootouts in our major cities, sexual abuse and disfigurement of prepubescent girls, kidnapping of hundreds of schoolgirls and supermarket bombings in Africa, tens of thousands of decapitations and 52 million displaced persons world-wide before our media has finally accepted there’s a slight problem with the perpetrators... Muslims.

Add to that the rapid increase in the availability of cheap sophisticated drones, and shares in the terrorist industry look set to skyrocket.

There is little doubt that, before this year is out, suicide bombers will be out of business, replaced with remotely controlled drones efficiently delivering their payloads to the battlefield, to suburban schools, shopping centres, sports venues and parliaments. If you’re lucky enough to shoot one down, another ten will be on their way... still no alarm bells ring.

Most astonishing is that these people of “Middle Eastern” appearance have the confidence to fearlessly forecast an Islamic takeover while we politely wave them away as a mad radical minority.

The Left must wince with embarrassment that their sacked Rudd/Gillard government is partly responsible for the rise in Islamic barbarism in Australia’s suburbs. There are still 30,000 uninvited arrivals out there somewhere, unprocessed, on benefits, unable to work and looking for a caliphate.

But if you listen carefully you can hear some people in government thinking about finally drawing a line in the sand, but they are still not sure where to draw it without encroaching on Islamic sensitivities or 18C. It is likely too late anyway.

Tough talk of cancelling nationals’ passports is a nonsense and can’t be done. If Australian Muslims are found guilty of a crime, they should do the time like every other Australian, but our PC judiciary refuses to put them away, claiming “cultural differences”.

The lack of penalties emboldens them further and confirms their prophecy of our weakness in the face of complete domination.

The source of home-bred Islamic radicalism is in a dark corner where both judiciary and government fear to tread... the source abides in mushrooming mosques across Australia.

Not with the mosque itself, but with imported clerics who demand Sharia law for all Australians... they exhort that those who resist must be decapitated. Mosques give the stage to foreign clerics on lecture tours. These vile extremists train local aspirants to whip up hysteria to promote violence and to defy local law. Most violence occurs after Friday prayers.

The Islamisation of Australia has begun, it’s no secret, they will tell you that to your face.

When the war is won, those lovely Muslim neighbours who threw the kids’ ball back from over the fence and who were instructed to befriend you, will assist to behead you. Impossible you say? Well, consider that they too must be beheaded under the Sharia law of apostasy if they refuse.

The moderate Muslim will not survive because only extremists comprise the vanguard of the Islamic tsunami, they set the agenda above all else. They are the eventual generals, the ordained administrators of Sharia.

And if you think they won’t turn on their own kind, witness the wholesale slaughter of Muslims by Muslims across the Middle East and North Africa right at this minute.

A proclaimed moderate Muslim is as much an enemy of Sharia as we are, if not more so.

Easy going Aussies are the easiest of marks. We believe in the innate goodness of man, but it’s the innate goodness of the Westerner that Islam preys on. The fictitious moderate Muslim cannot survive... he stays silent in the face of atrocity, frightened to be seen straying from Sharia’s plotted course. Despite what you think, the moderate will not side with you when the day comes.

Our real enemy is complacency.

Morrison has stemmed the Islamic flow, now we can choose who lives next door. But those who were allowed to breach our borders under Rudd and Gillard are still here radicalising their offspring from multiple wives in numbers that outstrip a puerile Catholic edict of forbidden condoms.

Islam preaches it will rule the world. It truly believes that. It despises the Judeo-Christian ethic. It will never assimilate or contribute to a Western community. It can’t because its host is the evil infidel who must be destroyed.

Islamic law is foreign to our judicial system. It is legal for a Muslim to gang rape a non Islamic female of any age... and they do that with impunity. There can be no coming together of cultures because their culture is diametrically opposed to ours and they intend to change ours.

George Bush once declared war on terrorism, Obama now declares inclusiveness, Shorten declares there’s nothing to see here, Abbott declares understanding and Milne declares war on coal.

If we are to get serious about the overt Islamic threat, there are ample emergency laws available to us that will allow it. Islam should be outlawed as a terrorist cult. The proliferation of mosques must be stopped and those that exist must be monitored.

Those who preach the destruction of our government must be charged and jailed under the already existing law of sedition.

Every person who has arrived here illegally must sign an oath of allegiance to Australia and its laws or leave. Islamic nationals who refuse to sign will stand out like sore thumbs and must be placed on a watch list.

It’s time to declare a war on terrorism and unleash those emergency laws we invoked in World War II when we jailed Japanese nationals in a Cowra compound.

The Japanese have since learnt the art of subversiveness and Islam is severely inhibited and defiled. The German people once ignored a threat from within.

We either get serious while Islam is still a minority or start teaching our kids to recite the Koran.

 

[SirRumpole]

That sort of half baked extremist nonsense from Pickering does not add to the debate. It's a rave designed to whip up hatred, his usual standard.

Muslims can "gang rape non Muslims with impunity" ? I don't think so. The Skaf gang was put away.

I think we need to be concerned, but not panic stricken about a Muslim presence in Australia. It's time to wind back immigration from all areas, and Muslim countries are no exception, but it can be done without the alarmist shrieking from the likes of Pickering.

 

[sydboy007]

I am surprised that you are a Muslim apologist. Consider this;
Wikipedia

Considering what the various church organisations have done...and continue to do...

I don't apologise for any bad actions by anyone. Religion is really irrelevant, except that it provides a cover to hide behind as some moralistic washing of accountability for the bad things people CHOOSE to do. Much like how many political leaders will drape the flag to hide behind when they take actions that would usually be condemned.

 

[Calliope]

I don't apologise for any bad actions by anyone. Religion is really irrelevant,

I meant apologist in the sense of turning a blind eye. By religion you obviously mean the Christian religion. You surely cannot mean that the variousl varieties of Islamist religions are irrevelant. The Sunnis, the Shi'ites and the Kurds all hate each other and are forever at each other's throats. But above all the Sunnis and the Shi'ites hate infidels (that's you and me) more than each other.

Their fertility rate far exceeds those of the western countries they are invading and as they expand in these countries so does Sharia Law, which I doubt you would consider irrevelant.

 

[sydboy007]

I meant apologist in the sense of turning a blind eye. By religion you obviously mean the Christian religion. You surely cannot mean that the variousl varieties of Islamist religions are irrevelant. The Sunnis, the Shi'ites and the Kurds all hate each other and are forever at each other's throats. But above all the Sunnis and the Shi'ites hate infidels (that's you and me) more than each other.

Their fertility rate far exceeds those of the western countries they are invading and as they expand in these countries so does Sharia Law, which I doubt you would consider irrevelant.

hate is hate. Religion just varnishes it in a way to make people think it's acceptable. hate is poisonous and destructive, no matter which well it springs from!

As i stated previously, these religious people generally are the ones taking actions so far from the teachings and beliefs they purportedly aspire to / support.

When someone chooses to go out and kill people, or attempt to kill them, I don't really care about their reasons. Be it God / Race / Sexuality / Gender or some other reason. What they've done is wrong, the motivation doesn't make it any better or worse, except in their own eyes and maybe those twisted enough to think like they do. I don't understand it, glad I don't because that would mean I see the world as they do.

Is a drone strike that kills 2 terrorists, reportedly, and a dozen civilians just unlucky enough to live in the same building or walking past it, any more defensible that a suicide murderer killing a couple of soldiers and a dozen innocent bystanders? That is the relativism you're engaging in between the various religions. History shows they're all pretty much just as bad as each other.

Just for a laugh, this is what the Presbyterian Church has to say about a non religious person doing good deeds. Pretty sad view IMHO:

Good works are only such as God hath commanded in his holy Word, and not such as, without the warrant thereof, are devised by men, out of blind zeal, or upon any pretense of good intention..

Deeds are good only if God calls them good in Scripture, and He calls them good only as they meet certain tests: (1) they are done in faith, (2) the are done in obedience to His commands in Scripture, and (3) they have His glory as their goal.

Secondly, we can therefore conclude the following:

...works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands; and of good use both to themselves and others: yet, because they proceed not from an heart purified by faith; nor are done in a right manner, according to the Word; nor to a right end, the glory of God, they are therefore sinful and cannot please God, or make a man meet to receive grace from God....

Possibly Martin Luther King was on the right path

It is obvious that most twentieth century Christians must frankly and flatly reject any view of a physical return of Christ… Actually we are celebrating the Second Advent every time we open our hearts to Jesus

Perhaps most radical is King’s view that Christ was not born of a virgin–that this myth was the result of a “pre-scientific world view,” and that Christ was not born divine, but rather became divine during his lifetime.

I finish with one of his beautiful quotes:

All life is interrelated, that somehow we’re caught in an inescapable network of mutuality tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. For some strange reason, I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be.

 

[bunyip]

Just for a laugh, this is what the Presbyterian Church has to say about a non religious person doing good deeds. Pretty sad view IMHO:

Good works are only such as God hath commanded in his holy Word, and not such as, without the warrant thereof, are devised by men, out of blind zeal, or upon any pretense of good intention..

Deeds are good only if God calls them good in Scripture, and He calls them good only as they meet certain tests: (1) they are done in faith, (2) the are done in obedience to His commands in Scripture, and (3) they have His glory as their goal.

Secondly, we can therefore conclude the following:

...works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands; and of good use both to themselves and others: yet, because they proceed not from an heart purified by faith; nor are done in a right manner, according to the Word; nor to a right end, the glory of God, they are therefore sinful and cannot please God, or make a man meet to receive grace from God....

Well there you go!
All those years I spent in community service clubs, thinking I was helping my community by building parks, running fund-raising events for worthy causes, painting fences for little old ladies,
building playground for the local kindy, etc etc – looks like I and my fellow club members were actually sinning because our deeds that we thought were good were......

(1) not done in faith
(2) not done in obedience to God’s commands in Scripture
(3) didn’t have His glory as their goal

No wonder churches are losing their following.

 

[Calliope]

OK sydboy, you waffle on again about why you hate the Christian religion, which you apparently consider relevant, but not a word of criticicm of the Islamic religions. In fact while you were obstensibly replying to my post, you ignored completely the question of why you consider Islamic religions irrevelant.

I consider that Islamic religions propose a more insidious threat to world order today than Naziism, Facism, and Communism did in the last century. And of course in those days there were people with their heads in the sand who said they were irrelevant although they eventually accounted for around 100 million deaths.

You say " hate is poisonous and destructive, no matter which well it springs from" Your hate for Christianity is palpable.

 

[sydboy007]

You say " hate is poisonous and destructive, no matter which well it springs from" Your hate for Christianity is palpable.

I consider myself a Christian. I believe in God. I have my faith. I just don't get caught up in the dogma of organised religions. I'm am not blinded by the fact that too much evil has been done in the name of God / Allah or whatever name thy wish to use.

Do you actually believe it's valid for a religious Christian to tell someone not particularly religious, or maybe from a differing religion, that their good deeds are sinful? Seriously, what is wrong with the religious world when they see things in that way!

 

[Calliope]

Do you actually believe it's valid for a religious Christian to tell someone not particularly religious, or maybe from a differing religion, that their good deeds are sinful? Seriously, what is wrong with the religious world when they see things in that way!

I couldn't give a stuff about that. All I wanted to know was why you considered the Islamic religion irrevelant, and all you do is waffle on about some obscure nonsensical doctrine of the Presbyterian church.

 

[Value Collector]

I couldn't give a stuff about that. All I wanted to know was why you considered the Islamic religion irrevelant, and all you do is waffle on about some obscure nonsensical doctrine of the Presbyterian church.

I would like to know why your so one eyed when it comes to religion, your so focused on hating Islam, but yet you don't want anyone to say a word against Christianity.

Everyone here knows the terrible things the Islamic faith is causing, we watch the news, read the papers, no doubt some of us have witnessed acts of terrorism etc, we get it, but we know these terrible things are not limited to the Islamic faith.

But the enemy is not Islam, the enemy is faith.

The enemy is not Muslims, Muslims are people. The enemy is not people, people are good. The enemy is not Islam. The enemy is faith. Love and respect all people, destroy all faith.

Islam, Judaism, Christianity and other religions are all morally bankrupt at their core and their texts preach hate, the only solution is to stop lying to children, stop the indoctrination and stop the culture of unearned respect to religion and the religious.

 

[Calliope]

I would like to know why your so one eyed when it comes to religion, your so focused on hating Islam, but yet you don't want anyone to say a word against Christianity.

You are obviously confused. You say you are a militant atheist and yet you love Muslims:screwy: