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$$$ - Protectionism - $$$

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noirua

Joined
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China and Japan are said to have $2 trillion that could be lent to the International Monetary Fund. However, in these very difficult times they may consider investment in Asia and the Far East a far better bet. Or they may keep the money at home as protectionism spreads.

Many countries may have little option now than to put up trade barriers. So if the IMF are constrained it may end up, every country for themselves.
 
Im all for protectionism and a wind back of the globilisation experiment.

We should concentrate on close relationships with countries of similar agendas ...

The NWO crew wont like it ....




 
numbercruncher said:
Im all for protectionism and a wind back of the globilisation experiment.

We should concentrate on close relationships with countries of similar agendas ...

The NWO crew wont like it ....

Click to expand...

Indeed, bonecruncher - the NWO led by Big Chief Burning Bu$h is making a deperate Custer$ La$t $tand for de-regulated markets at the G20 pow-wow.

On a lighter note, how is your now-not-so broken leg going? Any physio exercise with a cast on yet? I got out of my cast a week ago *YAY* and the next day stubbed my little toe on that same leg HARD against a chair leg *BOO* . My cussing nearly collapsed the roof!!

Thought I had broken it for a day or so - but turned out just badly sprained - it has turned black and puffed up the whole foot again and set me back ANOTHER week. Only just managed a short hobble around the block today. That'll teach me to be more careful where I put my size 13 clod-hoppers! LOL

Hope you are feeling a bit more chipper.

Chiz,

aj
 
numbercruncher said:
Im all for protectionism and a wind back of the globilisation experiment.

We should concentrate on close relationships with countries of similar agendas ...

The NWO crew wont like it ....

Click to expand...


I think Australia would fair badly, as we are such a 'one trick pony' country.

We export two thirds of our food, and a heap of coal, gas, iron ore, metals, uranium, and not much else.

We import just about everything else.

How would we build all the factories to start manufacturing computers, whitegoods, TV's, boats, airplanes, etc?. Who would we sell our commodities to? We could only eat a third of our food, and consume a tiny percentage of the hard commodities.

Globalisation may be bad in some ways, but it's better than the alternative. The whole world is stuck with it, and it's too late to go back. Every country is now specialising in what they do best, and they have forgotten how to do the other stuff.
 
The Once-ler said:
Globalisation may be bad in some ways, but it's better than the alternative. The whole world is stuck with it, and it's too late to go back. Every country is now specialising in what they do best, and they have forgotten how to do the other stuff.
Click to expand...
We've done it before after the last failed experiment with what is now termed "globalisation" and we built plenty of factories after that. So we're certainly not stuck with it forever although it will take time to wind back.

My personal expectation is that the current financial crisis when viewed in the future will have marked a major turning point and the end of the previous paradigm. Basically everything economic that became fashionable over the past 35 years is set to be reversed. Out with privatisation, in with nationalisation. Out with free trade, in with protectionism.

I'm not judging good or bad but I think we've seen the end of the notion that everything is best left to unregulated markets.
 
In theory free trade works. Problem is and always has been protectionism, more of it isnt going to solve anything.

But 'democracy' and communism also work in theory...
 
If worse comes to worst, Australia will be OK.

We inhabit a large continent with relatively few people and sufficient arable land. We can provide for our own needs. We have a strong primary industry, a skilled workforce, a culture of looking after each other, a strong democratic and legal framework, and a capacity for hard work.

We should all have faith in this country and it's people. (Not that it will come to that).
 
ive always favoured a degree of protectionism it does however have difficulties . These include inflation and possible balance of payment difficulties. The balance of payment problem comes about if you dont sell more to others than they buy from you but they are likely to want to know why they cant sell their manufactured goods to you and therefore get their raw materials from someone who will take their manufactured goods in this regard canada and brazil come to mind as australian competitors. If you allow your balance of payments to get too far out of hand you can become a defaulter on your debt and that has horrific consequences check out argentina on this one
 
What happens when individuals in countries are strong enough to not buy foreign goods. In many ways it is the people of a country that hold the whip hand here, "if it's foreign don't buy it".
 
noirua said:
What happens when individuals in countries are strong enough to not buy foreign goods. In many ways it is the people of a country that hold the whip hand here, "if it's foreign don't buy it".
Click to expand...

Unfortunatly i have no confidence in aussies being that strong. Also when China refused to buy anything off Britain the Brits forced them to take opium which the Brits grew in India specially to addict them and get the trade going
 
prawn_86 said:
In theory free trade works. Problem is and always has been protectionism, more of it isnt going to solve anything.

But 'democracy' and communism also work in theory...
Click to expand...

Used to think like this as an economics student however it isn't quite the case in reality. In reality everyone is out there serving their own interests. If China has no protection (i.e a floated dollar, no export subsidies, etc) I can tell you now the chance that China would become a powerhouse in manufacturing would be a lot less. Most people used to find it 'too risky' to set up shop in China due to the government. Anyone producing in China has exploited this protectionism, nothing more. And people are talking about them being the new superpower and more efficient. Protectionism is great when everyone else is playing free markets. Like lambs to the slaughter for you to suck their wealth.
 
I agree that there is already a large amount of protectionism in place across the world, much more than govs and the like lead us to believe.

A good example of why not to go down the protectionism route is ABC Learning. If we cant regulate a supposedly 'free market' properly, then what hope do we have of trying to protect every industry and different rules and laws for each of those industries
 



Hey AJ !

Glad to hear youve finally escaped your cast! bet you had a good itch huh ? and you poor bugger kicking your toe like that, im glad to hear it wasnt as bad as it could of been !!

Thanks for asking ..... Mines in a velcro removeable brace, got out of hospital about 10 days ago, all sorts went wrong in hospital ....... Im in it for the long haul it seems, saw Doctors on Thursday they are tipping I will be one year to get my leg back to a good working ability - but there are also variables like cartilage damage and theyve said I wont get the leg back to 100pc ...... I go back in 3 weeks for an xray/progress check ... but its a bit dissapointing atm, last assessment they said it would be a 4 months(ish) recovery, so going to a year is a massive jump, been a costly little adventure lol ! But i keep saying it could of been worse ...... In hospital guy across ffrom me died and guy beside me had his lower leg amputated ......

I guess I should put my update in the thread Julia kindly made ....

But thanks for asking, im plodding along, 12 months hobbling is rather daunting, pretty big interuption in life !

Hope your recovery powers along too !

 
One form of protectionism, in a hidden form, is to allow certain companies in a country to go bust. Thus releasing them from expensive agreements to buy iron ore and coal.
 
noirua said:
One form of protectionism, in a hidden form, is to allow certain companies in a country to go bust. Thus releasing them from expensive agreements to buy iron ore and coal.
Click to expand...

Or, in a not-so-hidden form to promise to keep struggling or un-competitive companies or sectors operational "at any cost" - eg:

(a) Oz car industry (but bailout might fail in the near future),

(b) Oz child-care centres (but bailout cracks are appearing),

(c) Oz tourism industry (bucket loads are going to be spent here by the sound of GuvMint rhetoric),

just to name a few.

Specifically "bailing out" a company, companies or sector by GuvMint$ that have a vested interest in doing so (mainly claimed by them to be in the best interests of local economic and employment reasons but often I suspect short term political survival reasons figure as well) also raises the question of altering the "fair trading" landscape.

Continuous bailouts significantly weaken the resolve and confidence of "free market" operators to be profitable and competitive. Why bother if your competitor is going to get a free handout from the GuvMint? Why bother fixing an uncompetitive business if you think you can wangle a golden parachute and bailout yourself from your mates in GuvMint? The opportunity for that is pretty clear ATM and into the near future.

This is a fine mess we are in and $$$ - Protectionism - $$$ seems to be the name of the game right now. Protect the country, protect the state, protect the shire, protect the local business. May "god" (whoever he/she/it is) protect us all!



aj
 
Australia is in a better position to protect industries than Europe. Any country, part of the European Common Market, needs to get permission from Brussels to bail out an industry. Australia can do what it likes.

The problem with letting an industry go down completely is, that there is little chance of having one again.

Tourism looks to be a big plus situation as the AUD plunges. Only South Africa, Iceland, Argentina and Pakistan have weaker currencies than Australia. Even the dodgy British Pound is doing better now.
 

There is still a big risk IMO that the GuvMint spends truckloads on tourism, yet even with a puny BananaBuck the eagerly anticipated tourist bonanaza doesn't eventuate. They still might not come in sufficient numbers - because THEY simply can't afford to because of THEIR crap economies.

What happens "over there" (China, Japan, Europe, US, where the tourists come from) is appearing to be much more important for tourism than whatever we may try here to promote it.



aj
 
China is to help its struggling textile industry through difficult times.
The time has come when the strongest countries are forced into protectionism.
Japan, South Korea, China, Germany and the USA are now in a situation where they will be forced to bailout their car industries.

All the G20 talks will in the end be nothing short of waffling in the dark.
 
noirua said:
Tourism looks to be a big plus situation as the AUD plunges. Only South Africa, Iceland, Argentina and Pakistan have weaker currencies than Australia. Even the dodgy British Pound is doing better now.
Click to expand...

That's so reassuring. Honestly, stick that in the good news thread; I jest

Sorry noirua, but a falling AUD really is quite bad for every day residents here. There is no silver-lining to a falling aud, even in the export industry.

Exports are of course slowing way down, and people world wide are losing too much money / jobs to even think about taking an international holiday right now - sorry, but that's just nuts.

So, I think I've established now that as a result of far less tourists, and far less exports (at heavily reduced prices) that the exporters aren't doing any better from this; rather they're just doing less than worse.

On the flip-side though, many industries are suffering greatly as a result! Importers, small business, and average-folk. Oil prices have plummeted world wide, but Australia has hardly felt it because our dollar has sunk along with it! Certain goods are going up in prices; in a period where people are already not wanting to spend, or simply cannot afford to - how can this possibly be a good thing?

Am I right noirua that you are currently living overseas and not in Australia? If so, how can you honestly say what is good for us?
 
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