Great Post Aussiejeff, particularly to read about Wanneroo track and the commendable experiences with your son. Interested to know if the desire to 'push it harder' on the local streets is ever a temptation with yourself or your son. Please be honest it is probably one of the 'concerns' that it might give a young bloke too much confidence - on the streets where he is not driving on ideal roads and with a lot of other hazards close by (eg houses, people, cross roads and inexperience drivers.) I appreciate the comments of your trip home, I am more thinking after a few weeks or so. Would it be different if someone only went to the track once or twice?
I have never really been interested in high powered cars, do you know what is on offer for those who drive the standard family car etc. I live in Perth too.
Finally, thanks for the post, you have change my perception on a couple of points.
cheers
All cars here should have delimeters set to 110kph. Okay, it won't stop lower speed deaths, but its a start.
Hi jbocker. Actually, it would have defeated the whole purpose of our joining the Club in the first place if we had driven straight out on the roads and continued "racing"! Though I couldn't speak for my son, coz I never followed him around late at night into his 17-19 year old phase, though he tells me he only "put the foot down" a couple of times after joining the club and was generally happy to wait for a tuning day to get his relatively SAFE fun. For myself, it was always enough to know another track day (or "tuning day") wasn't too far away. I just had a look at 2009 WA Sporting Car Club calendar and they had 14 "Private Practice Tuning Days" at Barbagallo between Jan & June 2009 - plenty to satisfy any latent urges!
However, I guess the less time somebody spent at tuning days, the more they MIGHT be tempted to put the foot down in the meantime. We couldn't wait for each tuning day to come, though the wallet got a bit hot sometimes!
Actually, there were plenty of members who would throw a bit of air into the family station wagon's tyres and take it for some laps too! All you needed then (not sure what it is now) is to complete a track day course (basic track courtesy, how to read the flag marshalls etc, track safety, basic track driving with an instructor to see if you can reasonably handle a car), sign an idemnity form (you are on your own if you get injured) and aren't too fussed about your car insurance if you should have a big bingle on track. Minor bingles aren't so bad as you can drive out of the circuit before calling the RAC! You would need to check with them to see what is on offer for yourself. http://www.wascc.com.au/
Cheers,
aj
Thanks Aussiejeff. I am going to make a few enquiries, I have a son and a couple of girls with lads. Might organise a day out. They are all level headed but you can never learn enough. For most of us who drive, driving is probably the most life threatening thing we do.
I agree with your opening post, but crush the car on the second offence.
That fits in with the 'have it now' lifestyle we live in nowadays, so conversely we should have "lose it now" too... (Im jesting a little on that point, folks). But I dont see the need to let idiots have 3 chances to wipe out our loved ones or anyone else.
Just slow down a minute all you guys with your laws, classes, etc. etc.
You'll turn Australia in to something like Pommyland where every person is filmed about 60 times a day by all those friggin CTV cameras, and people ignore stupid speed limits and spend 16 hours a day on the slops beating each other up..
The people attending these classes you propose and training will by and large come from functional families.
Many of the prangs are by unfortunates with dysfunctional backgrounds, drug problems.
gg
LOL
Are you suggesting then gg that all that advanced theory schooling and training that say, private pilots HAVE to go through to be given the privilege of flying is really a waste of time? Maybe pilot licences then should be handed out with the same gay abandon that driver licences are? Hmm.
We all know that since the dawn of time younguns have got themselves into fatal situations that no laws or rules will ever stop. But then again, totally lawless societies have their own peculiar sets of problems!
Training Doesn’t Prevent Crashes
It might seem like an incredible & illogical statement, but it’s true, traditional driver training does not prevent crashes. At the Our Approach page of this web site we discussed the difference between training & education. Certainly, a driver must have a basic amount knowledge & skill to operate the vehicle & pass a license test. These basic requirements are relatively easy to achieve, and most people who are able to graduate become a licensed driver without too much trouble.
It’s what comes next that prevents the biggest challenge.
It’s well known all around the world that younger drivers crash a lot more than older drivers. Because of this, an extensive amount of effort has gone into addressing the ‘young driver problem’.
Next comes the professional driver. The professional driver might drive a heavy vehicle, but most professional drivers tend to use passenger vehicles or light commercial vehicles. Because professional drivers tend to travel much larger distances than ordinary drivers, they have more crashes. Because crashes cost money, professional drivers started receiving some of the very first driver training programs. And, professional drivers still make up the majority of post-license driver training, just about anywhere in the world.
So what happens when you take a group of people (young drivers or professional drivers) and put them through a defensive driving course. Let’s take a look at the evidence...........
Hey, good luck with the enquiries and "bringing up" juniors!
Here's a teaser or two..
Just slow down a minute all you guys with your laws, classes, etc. etc.
You'll turn Australia in to something like Pommyland where every person is filmed about 60 times a day by all those friggin CTV cameras, and people ignore stupid speed limits and spend 16 hours a day on the slops beating each other up..
The people attending these classes you propose and training will by and large come from functional families.
Many of the prangs are by unfortunates with dysfunctional backgrounds, drug problems.
gg
There is absolutely no evidence that advanced driver training decreases crashes, mortality or injury amongst drivers.
The idea that it does is a myth propagated by driving schools, trainers, insurance companies and the police.
Have a look at this study.
http://www.cdta.com.au/training_does_not_prevent_crash.php
If you can find a study that proves otherwise please post it.
gg
People do learn on driver training courses. Generally speaking, driving skills do improve, so to does knowledge. Sadly however, the likelihood of crashing after training does not improve. If you are serious about road safety, you cannot ignore the evidence. The challenge is to identify opportunities for change.
Although the research doesn’t inspire confidence in the driver training process, it doesn’t say training can’t work. Simply that previous attempts, particularly those aimed at enhancing driver skill, haven’t worked. The exciting thing about research is that it helps objectively determine where we, as trainers, have failed. This knowledge helps us identify opportunities for the future.
There is a significant body of evidence that suggests that driver training makes people think more optimistically about their personal chances of crashing. If a person believes that they will be better off than other drivers, they may put less effort into staying safe. This notion of “driver optimism” helps explain why some drivers actually crash more after training, or why other positive effects are negated.
I find it amusing that throughout that spiel they didn't once answer the question "Does Driver Training Work?" with a simple, concise and definitive YES.Here's a link to Murcott's Driver Training website FAQ's that contains some interesting observations.
http://www.murcotts.com.au/murcotts/home/aboutus/faqs.sok
aj
From that very article gg -
The main thrust of that website & articles is that skill based training alone won't change driving attitudes. I agree. IMO driver psychology also needs a damn good going over to supplement skill training alone for any appreciable effect to ensuej
It's partly psychological (people tend to become overly territorial), but it's mostly a lack of awareness and caution. They play a far greater role in safety on the roads than what advanced driver training would teach.
How many accidents are caused by someone exceeding their skill, as opposed to running reds, not checking blindspots, unsafe stopping, tailgating, dangerous turns etc? Most accidents aren't due to driver skill, but driver error (although exceeding skill would also be an error).
For all licence holders, annual medical reviews are required from 75 years of age. This is to ensure that older drivers are medically fit and are able to drive competently and safely.
For car drivers and motocycle riders, from the age of 85 a number of licence options exist. Older drivers and riders can opt to have a modified licence or to undertake an assessment every two years from the age of 85 (ie 85, 87, 91 etc) to hold an unrestricted licence.
Heavy vehicle drivers in licence classes LR, MR, HR and HC will need to undertake annual driving assessments from 80 years of age.
From here, after letting this discussion run a few more days, I am off to chat to a couple of Pollies, armed with this site/thread.
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