Private Health Insurance - Is it Worthwhile?

[Logique]

One of the worst pieces of public policy in living memory. An electoral winner for the Coalition if they promise to reverse this..

As was highlighted in parliament last week, it is yet another broken promise.

Then Health Minister Nicola Roxon said in 2007, that Labor wanted to make it 'crystal clear' that there would be no changes to the private health insurance rebate arrangements.

 

[Smurf1976]

Youll be glad you have it if you ever need it.
So if you can afford it make it a priority.

If youve ever flown Business class over cattle class youll get the idea!

I have house and contents insurance. I've never made a claim and hopefully never will, but I'll keep paying the premiums "just in case".

I also have car insurance and I've made two claims, neither of which were avoidable or my fault. One for a tree falling across the bonnet and the other because a painter accidentally splashed paint all over it whilst the car was parked on a public street. Now, I could afford to have paid both of those myself that is true. But what if I do end up stuck on a level crossing and it does cause a train to derail? Or what if I really do end up running into someone's brand new Mercedes? I'll keep paying for insurance.

Fire alarms. Another thing I have but have never needed and hopefully never will. But I won't be getting rid of them.

Cable PI. Another safety device that I've never needed but someday it could save me. So I'll leave it plugged in "just in case".

I'm a member of the RACT (NRMA, RAC, RAA - same thing depends what state you are in). I've called them twice, both for minor things, and that proves the value of membership.

And I'll be keeping my health insurance too. I've never made any sort of claim, actually I don't even know how to go about claiming, but you never know what's around the corner. I've heard more than enough public hospital horror stories to know that I'll be keeping my health insurance.

I will, however, fly cattle class. We're all on the same plane if it falls out of the sky and I just don't see the extra cost of business as being worthwhile. Others will disagree of course and that's fine. For the same reason I don't stay in expensive hotels - though I ended up booking a 4.5 star room for my next trip simply because it was actually cheaper than most of the 3 star hotels were offering.

 

[IFocus]

As was highlighted in parliament last week, it is yet another broken promise.

Then Health Minister Nicola Roxon said in 2007, that Labor wanted to make it 'crystal clear' that there would be no changes to the private health insurance rebate arrangements.

On the Insiders it was said that it was Labors deal they took to a election.......isn't it essentially middle class welfare?

BTW no research shows it affects numbers for private cover.

 

[drsmith]

How can it not affect numbers for private cover ?

If the nett cost is increased, some will pull the pin. That's just simple logic.

 

[sptrawler]

Well an elderly SF retiree I worked with, doesn't have private cover.
The principle he works on is, if it's life threatening he will be covered by medicare.
If it's elective, he had a hernia repaired recently, he just pays the surgeon.

 

[Logique]

On the Insiders it was said that it was Labors deal they took to a election.......isn't it essentially middle class welfare?

BTW no research shows it affects numbers for private cover.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226267240902
"..Health insurers have predicted 1.6 million health fund members would quit their health cover over the next five years if the means test goes ahead. Mr Davis told state parliament yesterday if tens of thousands of Victorians dropped or reduced their cover because of the means test, "there would be a significant impact on the public health system".

As for the Insiders, that bastion of balanced commentary, either they are wrong or the Coalition is. Also I'd take the word of the the health insurers over that of the current Labor-Greens leadership.

Rich folks are on the hit list, it's in Labor's DNA. But rich folks pay tax, a lot of it. We must look past the Labor spin - the real subsidy flows in the opposite direction, rich folks participating in health insurance is what keeps premiums lower for the rest.

It's struggling families who'll cop it in the neck, as premiums rise, and they will. If the govt gets away with this, how long until Medicare is means tested?

 

[Julia]

Well an elderly SF retiree I worked with, doesn't have private cover.
The principle he works on is, if it's life threatening he will be covered by medicare.
If it's elective, he had a hernia repaired recently, he just pays the surgeon.

That seems so sensible doesn't it and it's an approach many private fund members have considered. Until you hear about some procedures which cost many hundreds of thousands. Then $1400 p.a. as a premium seems OK.

Rich folks are on the hit list, it's in Labor's DNA. But rich folks pay tax, a lot of it. We must look past the Labor spin - the real subsidy flows in the opposite direction, rich folks participating in health insurance is what keeps premiums lower for the rest.

It's struggling families who'll cop it in the neck, as premiums rise, and they will.

My instinct is to agree but on the other hand, in reality will most of the people who really believe in private cover drop it without the 30% off? I've been poor and went without other stuff to keep the private insurance.

 

[Logique]

..My instinct is to agree but on the other hand, in reality will most of the people who really believe in private cover drop it without the 30% off? I've been poor and went without other stuff to keep the private insurance.

Again I trust the private funds, who know their market best.

Mind you, as the public health sector descends into chaos, it would be a big risk to abandon your private policy. If you're in pain, there's no real choice between being on long waiting list at the public hospital, or activating your private insurance and going straight into the private hospital, with a surgeon of your choice.

Some may think this government of pink batts, the BER, solar bonus schemes, cash for clunkers and burgeoning national debt will get it right on health funding, however I couldn't possibly comment.

 

[IFocus]

How can it not affect numbers for private cover ?

If the nett cost is increased, some will pull the pin. That's just simple logic.

The most effective method is not subsides that the health funds pocket its the penalties that are imposed if you do not belong to a private fund.

Again are we not talking about middle class welfare?

 

[Julia]

The most effective method is not subsides that the health funds pocket its the penalties that are imposed if you do not belong to a private fund.

Again are we not talking about middle class welfare?

Does anyone know if these penalties are changed at all in the proposed new legislation?

 

[drsmith]

The most effective method is not subsides that the health funds pocket its the penalties that are imposed if you do not belong to a private fund.

Again are we not talking about middle class welfare?

What we are seeing here is much simpler than welfare/tax reform. It's just wealth redistribution.

Another means test which further complicates the tax transfer system, increases EMTR's and subsequently encourages more people into income tax minimisation through schemes such as negative gearing of real estate.

 

[drsmith]

Does anyone know if these penalties are changed at all in the proposed new legislation?

The money for dental care will be funded by an increase in the Medicare Levy surcharge for people on higher wages who do not hold private hospital cover.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-14/oakeshott-backs-rebate-means-test/3830012

The Greens are against private health alltogether.

the public health system is the best way to deliver health services.

abolish the private health insurance rebate and redirect funds to the public health system, including public hospitals.

http://greens.org.au/policies/care-for-people/health

They obviously decided not to insist on the following, but their objective is clear.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...to-axe-medicare-surcharge-20120212-1szt7.html

 

[Logique]

...Again are we not talking about middle class welfare?

I think you meant 18 weeks (going on 6 months) paid maternity leave, and subsidized childcare. Anti-middle class welfare crusaders can demonstrate their credentials by speaking up there.

By contrast the present health system has a place for everyone according to their means, and is finely tuned for balance between public and private health provision. The rich are encouraged to subsidize the poor by participating in private insurance. This is under opportunistic attack for reasons of ideology, class warfare, and the unofficial re-elect Julia Gillard fund, otherwise known as the promised budget surplus.

How long will the queues at public hospitals need to grow to satisfy the Greens anti-private health inclinations? How many must wait in pain for operations?

 

[Logique]

What we are seeing here is much simpler than welfare/tax reform. It's just wealth redistribution.
Another means test which further complicates the tax transfer system, increases EMTR's and subsequently encourages more people into income tax minimisation through schemes such as negative gearing of real estate.

Wealth redistribution, yes, but a blunt instrument that penalizes the (should be) redistributees.

 

[Calliope]

I think you meant 18 weeks (going on 6 months) paid maternity leave, and subsidized childcare. Anti-middle class welfare crusaders can demonstrate their credentials by speaking up there.

..and the baby bonus. They are carrots to entice young women to have babies they don't want or need. In this modern age of personal choice, with cheap and efficient contraception, we don't need children to till the fields or nurture us in our old age.

There are no good reasons for people to have children, so they have to be enticed to have them for the State. I think it was Costello who said "have one for your country."

 

[Miner]

Yes I believe it is very much worthwhile depending on where you are.

In Australia it is awesome. I have had my eye operation done in early Dec in Australia. It cost only $125 for the excess at Lion's Eye Instt. Thanks to Geelong Medical Health Fund, Awesome. I wanted to get it done in Canada privately. Guess what the quote was $10000 and that too the doctor (specialist) was not available for an appointment for 2 months. I came for Christmas to Perth and got it done. No worry,

If you are in USA, no doctor would touch you unless you have a private insurance. I went for an eye examination (prior to my operation). I have had a top insurance cover world wide as an expat. Doctor said $65. Then started building blocks. Eye drop for dialation costed another $50. Refractionaist $75 and ultimately he charged $375. Thank God the medical insurance paid for it.

In Canada the public health system is very good and cheap. Only IF , you have to wait for your coffin to be made. Same in UK under National Health Service. No private insurance is as good as NHS in UK, But once again WAIT .

 

[Logique]

Numbers from: http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/

This is Tanya Pliberseks 'workers subsidizing millionaires'. Truth is, it's the other way round:

- Someone earning $50k pays $5400 tax including Medicare Levy.

- Someone earning $250k pays $89k tax including Medicare Levy, and might (formerly) have received back $1500 in insurance rebate. So paying 16.6 times more tax, despite only 5 times as much income. These people's taxes are already funding the public system. By paying for private insurance, they are effectively paying twice for health.

- a millionaire appears to be a single earning > $83k, or family earning > $166k

 

[Calliope]

Will Abbott ever stop making these stupid and unnecessary pledges?:headshake Pledges that one day he will have to renege on and be on a par with Juliar. He should have waited to see its effects on the health industry.

TONY Abbott has pledged to axe Labor's means test on the 30 per cent private health insurance rebate if he wins government, adding $2.4 billion to his budget savings task.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...get-savings-task/story-fn59nokw-1226271609275

 

[prawn_86]

- a millionaire appears to be a single earning > $83k, or family earning > $166k

Yes, we are a 'DINK' couple and just one of our wages nearly covers the 'family' amount. And yet here we are having to pay even more tax just so the government can waste it on school halls, pink bats, carbon sequestation, car industry bailouts etc etc

When is a World government going to step up and utilise the Internet to make decisions via proper democracy?

 

[Calliope]

And yet here we are having to pay even more tax just so the government can waste it on school halls, pink bats, carbon sequestation, car industry bailouts etc etc

The "rust bucket" industry illustrates how hard-earned taxes are wasted.:rolleyes

Let's face it, the Australian car industry has had many more lives than the average cat. First, there were those years of resistance to the removal of quotas and the cuts to tariffs. Then the hands shot out for transitional assistance -- read, enormous sums of taxpayer dollars. The budgetary assistance is currently running at $160,000 per worker per year, with total protection amounting to an average of $7000 per car.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ucket-industries/story-fnbkvnk7-1226270122823