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PH2 - Pure Hydrogen Corporation

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WRM379 said:
These guys seem to be on the level. FMG's investment in hydrogen spurred my desire to get some hydrogen exposure so I found this company and have been watching them for a while and researching online.
It seems as though
1. Hydrogen is a powerful fuel, hence its used in rockets. Therefore may be useful for space exploration.
2. Electric motors and batteries are more efficient than fuel cells except in the case where a vehicle needs to make alot of stops and starts. Hence their development of hydrogen garbage trucks
3. Hydrogen is a clean and non toxic fuel which is plentiful
4. Hydrogen is tentatively being used in grid size power plants, in combination with gas
5. As a store of green power, I think, it holds more energy than current batteries therefore the transport (export) is more efficient than batteries. In other words its a way of exporting our sun and wind.

So these guys seem to be the little guy where FMG and others are the big guys going directly for export markets.

There is some solid reasoning to suggest that hydrogen has a place in the energy mix, probably not in cars but maybe somewhere in the future hydrogen tech will come to the fore.
I bought into it for 0.37 and consider it a bargain. But I'm not a stock broker or a scientist. I'm just another small time investor with very little experience. In fact this is my first real purchase and considering the recent movement might be holding it for awhile.
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From my research, Hydrogen will be big for heavy industry - mining, shipping, long haul trucks, etc. Electric motors will have a broader range of uses, everything from private transport, goods transportation, recreational, and some use by mining industry and so on.

Electric motors are more efficient and battery technology keeps improving daily.

I am invested in both industries, but my biggest hold is in the EV side of things.

Electric motors makes vehicles substantially more efficient than internal combustion engines (ICEs). Electric motors convert over 85 percent of electrical energy into mechanical energy, or motion, compared to less than 40 percent for a gas combustion engine.
 
WRM379 said:
Thanks for your opinion. But do you actually know that batteries survive the start/stop service that a garbage truck goes through. I mean has it been tested? I've read that this activity wears out the batteries pretty quickly.
If you know differently then I'd appreciate the reference
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Well it is not my opinion but just years of engineering started in the 2018 when i became interested.
Garbage trucks are the ideal ev truck which is why Mack is producing them and selling them now
www.popsci.com

Electric garbage trucks are the quiet, clean titans of waste collection

Giant battery-powered garbage trucks are like the Teslas of waste collection: quiet, peppy, and with zero tailpipe emissions.
www.popsci.com www.popsci.com
Any google search ev garbage truck.
Plenty to chose from
H2 could be good for long range trucks, interstate , etc definitely better than batteries imho but if there is one area where battery fits and where h2 has no advantage: that's the one ph2 has chosen?
.so next in line as a long term investor, you should question the company decision process but that's just my opinion and 4y of ev interests?
 
www.macktrucks.com

Mack® LR Electric | Mack Trucks

The Mack LR Electric delivers the same comfort, visibility, and reliability as the Mack LR, but with lower maintenance costs, reduced noise and zero carbon emissions.
www.macktrucks.com
If interested for your next saturday soccer run?
 
qldfrog said:
www.macktrucks.com

Mack® LR Electric | Mack Trucks

The Mack LR Electric delivers the same comfort, visibility, and reliability as the Mack LR, but with lower maintenance costs, reduced noise and zero carbon emissions.
www.macktrucks.com
If interested for your next saturday soccer run?
Click to expand...
Thanks qldfrog, makes for interesting reading.
So trials were started in 2020 and seem to be still ongoing. I note that they are already replacing the batteries. But i guess they take this into consideration with their maintenance budget. So there's really only the battery footprint to worry about.
JohnDe said:
Electric motors are more efficient and battery technology keeps improving daily.
Click to expand...
What I've read also.

I'm not completely giving up on hydrogen because city departments can spend what they like and jump onboard the ev bandwagon just because its available not because its the better option. Evidence of ev garbage trucks says nothing about hydrogen. I suspect that PH2 have their reasons that I can't fathom, after all they are committed to the project.

That leaves off grid applications and future tech which I'm interested in. So I'll stick with them for now.
 
WRM379 said:
Thanks qldfrog, makes for interesting reading.
So trials were started in 2020 and seem to be still ongoing. I note that they are already replacing the batteries. But i guess they take this into consideration with their maintenance budget. So there's really only the battery footprint to worry about.

What I've read also.

I'm not completely giving up on hydrogen because city departments can spend what they like and jump onboard the ev bandwagon just because its available not because its the better option. Evidence of ev garbage trucks says nothing about hydrogen. I suspect that PH2 have their reasons that I can't fathom, after all they are committed to the project.

That leaves off grid applications and future tech which I'm interested in. So I'll stick with them for now.
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I personally believe more in H2 than electric, even better take H2, add CO2 and get synthetic fuel that you can use now without even changing the cars, trucks etc etc or supply chain garages etc etc..at the very least for a transition.
H2 is a leaky bastard and it is a matter of time a massive accident happens Hindenburg style, all these bright chaps reinventing the wheel yet forgetting history .
lithium is not bad either in term of infernal tower when a tesla start burning in an underground car park
I see H2 as the only way you can get heavy movers, mining trucks etc going but not sure it will be by fuel cell..not technically aware enough on these yet to judge properly.
Fact remains that nothing in energy density comes anywhere near oil..
so h2 great for static aka fuel cells acting like batteries attached to green wind/solar farms is a must do imho,
not so sure about batteries for trucks, even less for planes..this is a VERY stupid idea but for flea jumping fleet
The sad bit is that this is all led by taxes incentives and other deviant economy twists so we can be sure of the most idiotic solutions being released as it will make sense based on the latest tax offset, incentives etc..none on economy or performance.
The greenwashing of science is at least as strong as the greenwashing of companies ..sad for the world and independent real science.
I have a buy on PH2 ..look how successfull is TikTok....so why should i miss?
 
qldfrog said:
I personally believe more in H2 than electric, even better take H2, add CO2 and get synthetic fuel that you can use now without even changing the cars, trucks etc etc or supply chain garages etc etc..at the very least for a transition.
H2 is a leaky bastard and it is a matter of time a massive accident happens Hindenburg style, all these bright chaps reinventing the wheel yet forgetting history .
lithium is not bad either in term of infernal tower when a tesla start burning in an underground car park
I see H2 as the only way you can get heavy movers, mining trucks etc going but not sure it will be by fuel cell..not technically aware enough on these yet to judge properly.
Fact remains that nothing in energy density comes anywhere near oil..
so h2 great for static aka fuel cells acting like batteries attached to green wind/solar farms is a must do imho,
not so sure about batteries for trucks, even less for planes..this is a VERY stupid idea but for flea jumping fleet
The sad bit is that this is all led by taxes incentives and other deviant economy twists so we can be sure of the most idiotic solutions being released as it will make sense based on the latest tax offset, incentives etc..none on economy or performance.
The greenwashing of science is at least as strong as the greenwashing of companies ..sad for the world and independent real science.
I have a buy on PH2 ..look how successfull is TikTok....so why should i miss?
Click to expand...
Some people say its the fuel of the distant future.... I don't know enough either but I'm in the game now.
Trading makes me more interested in these sort of things. Its a great hobby.
Cheers
 
WRM379 said:
Some people say its the fuel of the distant future.... I don't know enough either but I'm in the game now.
Trading makes me more interested in these sort of things. Its a great hobby.
Cheers
Click to expand...

"...drawbacks facing the hydrogen industry include difficulties in setting up a gas distribution network for the cars of the future - will this be done with pipelines to service stations or bulk deliveries by trucks?"

Porsche Virtually Tests 590-HP Hydrogen-Combustion Car At Nurburgring
The automaker is exploring a high-performance hydrogen engine for passenger vehicles.
Click to expand...

there is no question that both hydrogen & electric may be the main mix for future transport, the main question for investors is which one will be the dominant form of overall transport solutions.

To decide on which format will be the larger there will have to be other questions answered -

H2
How will H2 be transported?
What will be the cost of transport infrastructure?
Can existing fuel stations be used as H2 fueling stations?
Is it safe to have a busy H2 fuel station in busy city and suburban areas?
How much will the cost of H2 be for the consumer?
What will the retail cost be of an H2 vehicle and what will be the legal requirements for regular maintenance?
This list is not complete...

EV
Can enough electricity be supplied to cover the added requirement for EVs?
What will the cost be of increased electricity generation requirements?
Can existing infrastructure be improved to handle the extra load?
Can existing fuel stations be converted to EV charging stations?
The list is not complete, but many questions have and are being answered right now. Tesla has shown the world how to develop and sell efficient EVs, other auto manufacturers have jumped in, infrastructure has and is being built.

Some people like to mention EV battery fires, however they neglect to mention the number of liquid fuel fires and the number of deaths.

The biggest obstacle to a hydrogen powered private fleet is the fear and danger of an accident, hydrogen doesn't just burn it explodes.

"Even small amounts of liquid hydrogen can be explosive when combined with air, and only a small amount of energy is required to ignite it. Both its explosiveness and the extremely low temperatures involved make handling it safely a challenge."

That is one reason I see EVs dominating transport in cities and suburbs, and H2 in the mining and heavy vehicle industry.


​

 
JohnDe said:
"...drawbacks facing the hydrogen industry include difficulties in setting up a gas distribution network for the cars of the future - will this be done with pipelines to service stations or bulk deliveries by trucks?"



there is no question that both hydrogen & electric may be the main mix for future transport, the main question for investors is which one will be the dominant form of overall transport solutions.

To decide on which format will be the larger there will have to be other questions answered -

H2
How will H2 be transported?
What will be the cost of transport infrastructure?
Can existing fuel stations be used as H2 fueling stations?
Is it safe to have a busy H2 fuel station in busy city and suburban areas?
How much will the cost of H2 be for the consumer?
What will the retail cost be of an H2 vehicle and what will be the legal requirements for regular maintenance?
This list is not complete...

EV
Can enough electricity be supplied to cover the added requirement for EVs?
What will the cost be of increased electricity generation requirements?
Can existing infrastructure be improved to handle the extra load?
Can existing fuel stations be converted to EV charging stations?
The list is not complete, but many questions have and are being answered right now. Tesla has shown the world how to develop and sell efficient EVs, other auto manufacturers have jumped in, infrastructure has and is being built.

Some people like to mention EV battery fires, however they neglect to mention the number of liquid fuel fires and the number of deaths.

The biggest obstacle to a hydrogen powered private fleet is the fear and danger of an accident, hydrogen doesn't just burn it explodes.

"Even small amounts of liquid hydrogen can be explosive when combined with air, and only a small amount of energy is required to ignite it. Both its explosiveness and the extremely low temperatures involved make handling it safely a challenge."

That is one reason I see EVs dominating transport in cities and suburbs, and H2 in the mining and heavy vehicle industry.


​

Click to expand...
From what I have read, batteries are more efficient than Hydrogen fuel cells for most purposes. There may be reason to think Hydrogen is better in some applications, such as off-grid power. Where electricity isn't available. But generally batteries are the go. As you said earlier the battery tech is advancing quickly. Its the inherent power of Hydrogen that has me enthusiastic about it. The fuel has already been used by spacecraft so we know we can harnedd that explosive power. Just like we harness oils power. I've also read that Hydrogen is no more dangerous than petrol, which is also explosive when combined with air. Its the potential that has me hooked at the moment. As I've said before its a future export for Australia, so that's another reason why I like it. This company already export it. SO I think theres a few good reasons to buy it.
 
WRM379 said:
From what I have read, batteries are more efficient than Hydrogen fuel cells for most purposes. There may be reason to think Hydrogen is better in some applications, such as off-grid power. Where electricity isn't available. But generally batteries are the go. As you said earlier the battery tech is advancing quickly. Its the inherent power of Hydrogen that has me enthusiastic about it. The fuel has already been used by spacecraft so we know we can harnedd that explosive power. Just like we harness oils power. I've also read that Hydrogen is no more dangerous than petrol, which is also explosive when combined with air. Its the potential that has me hooked at the moment. As I've said before its a future export for Australia, so that's another reason why I like it. This company already export it. SO I think theres a few good reasons to buy it.
Click to expand...

Yes, hydrogen has a lot more energy than comparable fuels.

No, you can not compare hydrogen to petrol or other liquid fuels.

Hydrogen Compared with Other Fuels​

Hydrogen's flammability range (between 4% and 75% in air) is very wide compared to other fuels, as shown in Figure 3. Under the optimal combustion condition (a 29% hydrogen-to-air volume ratio), the energy required to initiate hydrogen combustion is much lower than that required for other common fuels (e.g., a small spark will ignite it), as shown in Figure 4. But at low concentrations of hydrogen in air, the energy required to initiate combustion is similar to that of other fuels.


flammability_range.jpg

Figure 3. Flammability Range
minimum_ignition_energy.jpg

Figure 4. Minimum Ignition Energy

Hydrogen burns with a pale blue flame that is nearly invisible in daylight, so it is almost impossible to detect by the human senses (see Hydrogen Flame Characteristics video under Supporting Examples in the right column of this page). Impurities such as sodium from ocean air or other burning materials will introduce color to the hydrogen flame. Detection sensors are almost always installed with hydrogen systems to quickly identify any leak and minimize the potential for undetected flames. Compared to the propane flame (right) in Figure 5, the hydrogen flame (left) is almost invisible, but it can be seen with the thermal imaging camera shown in the foreground. At night, hydrogen flames are visible, as shown in Figure 6.

flames%20comparison.jpg
flames%20comparison%20night.jpg
Figure 5 - Hydrogen and Propane Flames in Daylight
(Photo courtesy of HAMMER)		Figure 6 - Hydrogen and Propane Flames at Night
(Photo courtesy of ImageWorks)

In addition, hydrogen flames radiate little infrared (IR) heat, but substantial ultraviolet (UV) radiation. This means that when someone is very close to a hydrogen flame, there is little sensation of heat, making inadvertent contact with the flame a significant concern. UV overexposure is also a concern, since it can result in sunburn-like effects.
 
JohnDe said:
Yes, hydrogen has a lot more energy than comparable fuels.

No, you can not compare hydrogen to petrol or other liquid fuels.

Hydrogen Compared with Other Fuels​

Hydrogen's flammability range (between 4% and 75% in air) is very wide compared to other fuels, as shown in Figure 3. Under the optimal combustion condition (a 29% hydrogen-to-air volume ratio), the energy required to initiate hydrogen combustion is much lower than that required for other common fuels (e.g., a small spark will ignite it), as shown in Figure 4. But at low concentrations of hydrogen in air, the energy required to initiate combustion is similar to that of other fuels.


View attachment 145647
Figure 3. Flammability Range
View attachment 145648
Figure 4. Minimum Ignition Energy

Hydrogen burns with a pale blue flame that is nearly invisible in daylight, so it is almost impossible to detect by the human senses (see Hydrogen Flame Characteristics video under Supporting Examples in the right column of this page). Impurities such as sodium from ocean air or other burning materials will introduce color to the hydrogen flame. Detection sensors are almost always installed with hydrogen systems to quickly identify any leak and minimize the potential for undetected flames. Compared to the propane flame (right) in Figure 5, the hydrogen flame (left) is almost invisible, but it can be seen with the thermal imaging camera shown in the foreground. At night, hydrogen flames are visible, as shown in Figure 6.

View attachment 145649View attachment 145650
Figure 5 - Hydrogen and Propane Flames in Daylight
(Photo courtesy of HAMMER)		Figure 6 - Hydrogen and Propane Flames at Night
(Photo courtesy of ImageWorks)

In addition, hydrogen flames radiate little infrared (IR) heat, but substantial ultraviolet (UV) radiation. This means that when someone is very close to a hydrogen flame, there is little sensation of heat, making inadvertent contact with the flame a significant concern. UV overexposure is also a concern, since it can result in sunburn-like effects.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info John, it seems as though care must be taken with all sorts of combustible gases. But if we can manage petrol we can manage hydrogen. I'm keen to see what this fuel can do when the explosive power is tightly controlled like in a space craft..... I suppose they have already done it with the interplanetary robot missions. Still, who knows where operations like Pure Hydrogen will lead to.
 
“If you think about heavy transport in Australia, if you had a hydrogen filling station on the outskirts of each of the major cities, suitable for truck filling, that’s really all you need to get the heavy transport fleet migrating across off diesel onto hydrogen. If we bring the cost of hydrogen down per kilo to a competitive level where it is acceptable for light commercial, you then start to get scale and you can put more infrastructure out. Then gradually that finds its way into passenger cars,”​

How Bosch boss wants to play in the future hydrogen economy

Automotive is experiencing an ‘alarming’ rate of electrification and Bosch Australia president Gavin Smith has mixed feelings about it.

Gavin Smith likes to recite the famous words of John F Kennedy when speaking of what he calls the “alarming” momentum of electrification, which is rapidly transforming the automotive sector.

“When Kennedy said, ‘We are going to put man on the moon’, he didn’t specify the type of propulsion that the rocket would have to get there,” quips Smith, the president of Robert Bosch Australia, the local arm of the world’s biggest automotive parts supplier and maker of power tools and household appliances.

“Automotive is going through probably the biggest disruption and change since the coming of the internal combustion engine back in the 1880s. The shift to electrification is now gathering momentum at an alarming rate. I call it alarming because we have mixed feelings about it.”.....

....Perhaps what most excites the 32-year Bosch veteran about the firm’s auto business is its work building hydrogen fuel cells, which are close to being fitted to heavy transport commercial vehicles.

“If you think about heavy transport in Australia, if you had a hydrogen filling station on the outskirts of each of the major cities, suitable for truck filling, that’s really all you need to get the heavy transport fleet migrating across off diesel onto hydrogen. If we bring the cost of hydrogen down per kilo to a competitive level where it is acceptable for light commercial, you then start to get scale and you can put more infrastructure out. Then gradually that finds its way into passenger cars,” he says.

“Interestingly, Australia has some of the world’s best technology in hydrogen electrolysed efficiency. So another topic for our group is not just on the fuel cells themselves, but what position will Bosch play in the future hydrogen economy in terms of components systems and devices?”......
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JohnDe said:
“If you think about heavy transport in Australia, if you had a hydrogen filling station on the outskirts of each of the major cities, suitable for truck filling, that’s really all you need to get the heavy transport fleet migrating across off diesel onto hydrogen. If we bring the cost of hydrogen down per kilo to a competitive level where it is acceptable for light commercial, you then start to get scale and you can put more infrastructure out. Then gradually that finds its way into passenger cars,”​



Click to expand...
Thanks for the report John. Another Hydrogen adherent.
I suppose the fueling infrastructure is what PH2 is into, along with the hydrogen itself and the vehicles. They have a few avenues to pursue profit.
 
qldfrog said:
Out today on trailing SL.lost $10 inc brokerage so no regret
An interesting article
panatimes.com

Scientists Discover New Way Of Producing Hydrogen From Water At Room Temperature: Report - PanamaTimes

Scientists from University of California have discovered a novel method of producing hydrogen gas from water at room temperature.
panatimes.com panatimes.com
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I didnt have any SL, I hope you mean Stop Loss. So I'm still in, hoping it continues to rise.

The article is very interesting Frog, I hope they can scale it.
 
Got the jitters last night because this stock isn't going up like my theory indicated. I can sell now and take a 13% loss or hold and hope it moves up.
So I looked into it again and came across this article
www.pv-magazine-australia.com

Australian electrolyser invention enables green hydrogen under $2/kg by ‘mid 2020s’

“We’re not talking about incremental improvement, this is a really giant leap,” Hysata CEO Paul Barrett told <b>pv magazine Australia</b>. Hysata is commercialising a breakthrough made at the University of Wollongong which effectively, Barrett says, invented a “brand new category of...
www.pv-magazine-australia.com www.pv-magazine-australia.com
I read this to imply that hydrogen at 95% efficiency is better than batteries at 70%, roughly.
Therefore the lack of movement on the market is due to hesitancy because batteries are supported by some prominent people.
I could just give it up and buy a solar system.
Any thoughts?
 
It appears that the investment market like the government's budget assistance for hydrogen development.

The question for now, is this a long-term price trend or just a sugar hit?

I've held shares for a few years.

1715834328874.png
 
I will have to thank the governments Future Made in Australia announcement, it is the first time in a very long time that my holdings in PH2 have been in the green. However, I'm not holding my breath that the good news will remain.

1716511850294.png
 
Looks like we're selling Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric and Battery Electric Trucks in the United Arab Emirates and surrounding countries -

1722302651355.png

Key Points:​

  • MOU provides terms for Pure Hydrogen and ARMS Group Holding to negotiate the distribution and supply of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric and Battery Electric Trucks in the United Arab Emirates and surrounding countries.
  • ARMS Group controls and manages a group of large and highly recognised companies in Dubai with operations in the UAE and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) region.
  • Anticipated first supply of first trucks in CY2025 compliant with Gulf and Middle Eastern
    standards.
  • Presents a new opportunity for Pure Hydrogen to enter the Gulf and Middle Eastern markets
    with both zero-emission vehicles as well as hydrogen production and refuelling technologies.
  • ARMS Group is well established within the waste management industry from waste pick-up to recycling and landfill.
 
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