PEN - Peninsula Energy

[tech/a]

tech/a,
I can't imagine why an insto would invest if there was not that fundamental belief?

That said, we can't assume they would be right. It could turn out to be a dog, and on balance many stocks do so PEN would be one of their many plays in the market in an effort to manage the risk and exposure.

The tricky part here is that the insto investing in PEN is PALA, not necessarily their "nominee" Citicorp, similarly for Blackrock and theirs.

Ordinarily I'd contend that such a nominee may have only a short term objective in the stock, but if you look back to the days before the sharelending agreement between PALA and Citi, between March - May 2010 Citi increased their holding from just over 6 million shares to 90 million. Now I appreciate this was at a time that Uranium was going up rapidly, pre Fukushima, but there's no evidence they have divested that holding and I believe they are closet Uranium bulls

Well there is no doubt that if you were to accumulate
PEN it would be at these levels.
Return on Risk has the potential to be substantial.
Either the timing has to be perfect (as you could lose 100% gain finessing entry)
or sit there.

 

[hangseng]

For what it's worth, i've had a look at the Dec 12 and Jan 13 Top 20's, there was negligible change, refer:

Col, you won't see a change in Citi Nominees holdings. They have a "Prime Brokerage" agreement in place and as such any change in holdings by the third party being UBS requires no disclosure by Citi or UBS. Read up on the Non-disclosure aspect of these agreements with ASIC rulings.

So although third parties could do as they wish with the shares they borrowed from Citi, there would be no change indicated in Citi's holdings in the Top 20. Unless Pala via Citi decided to sell shares then it would require disclosure as they are the "Owner", no evidence of that having occurred to date.

The secrecy surrounding these agreements flies in the face of the ASX objective of a transparency in the market. If there was transparency we could all see what has happened with these shares due to Pala passing on to Citi as Nominee holder on their behalf, and the resultant Prime Brokerage agreement between Citi and UBS (see PEN announcements).

I would love to see the share movement data of UBS (and Citi Nominees) PEN holdings since this agreement went into place and the beneficiary fees that applied to the agreements relating to the PALA shares. But almost certainly that data would ever be available publicly. If it was then maybe once and for all the speculation would be over regarding share movements.


Today we have another outstanding fundamental change in PEN, and very little interest displayed. Maybe Mick's statement is coming home to roost and the damage has been done. Todays extremely positive announcement would have sent any other stock into a buying frenzy, instead with PEN just another fizzer.

 

[Trembling Hand]

I would love to see the share movement data of UBS (and Citi Nominees) PEN holdings since this agreement went into place and the beneficiary fees that applied to the agreements relating to the PALA shares. But almost certainly that data would ever be available publicly. If it was then maybe once and for all the speculation would be over regarding share movements.

I assume they have borrowed them to short? If so why wouldn't they show up on ASIC database of shorted stock?

Which they don't?

http://asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/Short+position+reports+table?openDocument

 

[skyQuake]

Col, you won't see a change in Citi Nominees holdings. They have a "Prime Brokerage" agreement in place and as such any change in holdings by the third party being UBS requires no disclosure by Citi or UBS. Read up on the Non-disclosure aspect of these agreements with ASIC rulings.

Link? Not sure what you're referring to.

I would love to see the share movement data of UBS (and Citi Nominees) PEN holdings since this agreement went into place and the beneficiary fees that applied to the agreements relating to the PALA shares. But almost certainly that data would ever be available publicly. If it was then maybe once and for all the speculation would be over regarding share movements.

U mean with pala in Dec 2010?

 

[Stormtrooper]

I assume they have borrowed them to short? If so why wouldn't they show up on ASIC database of shorted stock?

Which they don't?

http://asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/Short+position+reports+table?openDocument

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Trembling Hand,

Whilst they have borrowed the stock, they would be considered the owners of the stock.

As such, selling that stock wouldn't be considered shorting (although they do have to purchase back at some point in time to hand back to the original owners).

I guess technically there is no short (ie if Pala were to sell & then buy back that isn't considered a short), although they would be submitting a number of change in substantial shareholders forms.

No difference here except another party is the legal owner..........all in my opinion.

Stormtrooper

 

[Trembling Hand]

Stormtrooper what you have described is exactly the Technical process of shorting a stock. Thats how it works.

 

[skyQuake]

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Trembling Hand,

Whilst they have borrowed the stock, they would be considered the owners of the stock.

As such, selling that stock wouldn't be considered shorting (although they do have to purchase back at some point in time to hand back to the original owners).

I guess technically there is no short (ie if Pala were to sell & then buy back that isn't considered a short), although they would be submitting a number of change in substantial shareholders forms.

No difference here except another party is the legal owner..........all in my opinion.

Stormtrooper

This is simply a stock lending agreement. They must disclose as per RG196

Where a person (a seller) executes a short sale and relies on an existing securities lending arrangement to have a ‘presently exercisable and unconditional right to vest’ the products in the buyer at the time of the sale, the sale of the products is a covered short sale. Covered short selling is permitted under the Corporations Act 2001 (Corporations Act). For a detailed overview of the short selling provisions of the Corporations Act, please see Regulatory Guide 196 Short selling (RG 196).

 

[hangseng]

Stormtrooper what you have described is exactly the Technical process of shorting a stock. Thats how it works.

It is no different from you being the "owner" or "holder" of 10m shares and decided to sell 5m, you don't have to report this sale as a "shortsell" position. You merely sold stock you held. If the sp drops and you buy it back at a lower price then good luck to you, but you have no obligation to buy back.

Yes technically that is shorting but the sale above requires no disclosure as "reportable shortsell" stock.

In the case of the Prime Brokerage agreement, if UBS sells stock then they MUST at some stage buy it back when the stock borrowed is handed back to the original owner (UBS back to Citi and then Citi back to PALA). That is about the only difference I can see.

I think Stormtrooper has it right.

 

[Trembling Hand]

It is no different from you being the "owner" or "holder" of 10m shares and decided to sell 5m, you don't have to report this sale as a "shortsell" position.

I do if I borrowed it from someone Off market!!

 

[Stormtrooper]

I do if I borrowed it from someone Off market!!

-----------------------------

Maybe my understanding/reading of the Prime Brokerage Agreement is wrong.

Have you read it?

It is attached to the 2nd June 2011 Notice Form 604 Change under Substantail Holding.

http://www.pel.net.au/news___announcements/general_announcements.phtml

Here's a couple of clauses, whats your take on these?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bell diver]

Announcement out
http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/do...nZXNpZ25hbC9lcnJvcnBhZ2VzL3BkZmRlbGF5ZWQuanNw

50.1 MILLION POUND MAIDEN JORC CODE COMPLIANT
RESOURCE AT KAROO PROJECTS

Intersting there has been zero discussion on this. A slight blip from MR market but other then that nothing. I know alot have been waiting for this for some time as it was promised prior to xmas. Now its here not a murmer?? Is it that bad???

 

[skyQuake]

Its just a regular prime broker agreement. The fund (pala) enters into the custodian agreement, and the stock goes into a pool. UBS can now lend out that stock from the pool to short sell. Generally, if you locate stock from UBs, you'll have to place the order through UBS. Esp if the stock is hard to locate.

The short is then reported, because of the borrow was sourced from UBS.

 

[Country Lad]

Its just a regular prime broker agreement. The fund (pala) enters into the custodian agreement, and the stock goes into a pool. UBS can now lend out that stock from the pool to short sell. Generally, if you locate stock from UBs, you'll have to place the order through UBS. Esp if the stock is hard to locate.

The short is then reported, because of the borrow was sourced from UBS.

Yes, difficult to understand what all the angst is about regarding this agreement, they are not uncommon and are relatively straight forward. PEN stock very much talked about on forums and consequently can be volatile. I expect that UBS is both playing with it themselves as well as lending it to others who play on all this mad unwarranted hype and UBS get the commission.

Nothing untoward, PEN is not the only one with such agreements.

Cheers
Country Lad

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

For some reason PEN is 2.56% down since the beginning of this month, and I lie 29th out of a field of 50 in the ASF Stock Tipping competition.

It will on a previously posted chart find support, in the low 0.03's , so I see no reason to be despondent at present.

gg

 

[Karlos68]

For some reason PEN is 2.56% down since the beginning of this month

Should my "dip in Feb" prediction play out its gonna get worse.



Good news for ya thou Garpul. Heres a chart displaying OBV trends being forerunners to Share Price trends.

 

[followme]

the problem with this stock is management. MD thinks he is a rock star/movie star with a package salary that is in the millions, really? the stock itself is a dog trading in the 3's.

 

[colossus]

the problem with this stock is management. MD thinks he is a rock star/movie star with a package salary that is in the millions, really? the stock itself is a dog trading in the 3's.

what constructive input, well said sir.

 

[Jewels]

Looks like everything is lining up for PEN except the market cap.!
I'm wondering does anybody know why PEN commentary has been canned on the other Blogg?
I've seen the official statement, just wondering what went on behind closed doors..... if you know what I mean.
Thanks. J

 

[hangseng]

Looks like everything is lining up for PEN except the market cap.!

The BOT still holding the SP back despite many positive announcements....one can only speculate as to why?

My system one gave up long ago and system two was in overdrive trying to analyse why. Now I don't care, I will buy when the negative BOT activity ceases, PEN and the U price display a definite +ve sentiment turn and gg wins the monthly comp on PEN...the latter must be the most keenly watched and sought after indicator

 

[Karlos68]

I'm wondering does anybody know why PEN commentary has been canned on the other Blogg?
I've seen the official statement, just wondering what went on behind closed doors..... if you know what I mean.
Thanks. J

Jewels, that other forum was warned a while back that critical comment was not welcome and the forum shall be observed by legal representatives of PEN.

Seemed that the regular knockers of PEN management do not understand that penny stocks are in a downtrend and this is not due to management but general market sentiment. You only need to look at many small cap tops early 2011 and observe the similar downtrends in Share Price since.

I did warn them to show management some respect. Did they listen?:bonk:

I feel the demise of the other forum is beneficial to the well being of many an individuals sanity.:iagree:

Thankfully ASF is down to earth