PEN - Peninsula Energy

[Stormtrooper]

Here is mine, PEN is missing on the 24th, obviously an error !
http://www.asx.com.au/data/shortsell.txt

The report is correct. There were no REPORTABLE shares shorted that day.

The arrangement that hangseng is talking about is an agreement between Pala & Citi.

Pala still own the shares, but have lent these shares to Citi (also the nominee holder) for a fee. A bit like renting out your house so that you receive a rental income. You still own the asset, but another party has the right to use your asset as they see fit.

Citi now can do what they want with the shares (in this case short sell) & buy back, returning the share holding at some point to its rightful owner (Pala).

This type of shorting will NOT appear in the ASX records as PALA the owner have not shorted, they have only only lent the shares.

It's an area condoned (via lack of control by ASX).

At some point Citi will need to hand back all shares to Pala & this is what hangseng is talking about that they are not yet finished & hence why el capo is so confident of lower prices

Watching with interest as Blackrock now have a position at 3.6c (when you include option position). It will be 'interesting' to see if/how they work together to each others benefit, as shorting & lowering the price will hurt Blackrocks book position (initially) if it does run as low as elcapo claims.

 

[hangseng]

The report is correct. There were no REPORTABLE shares shorted that day.

The arrangement that hangseng is talking about is an agreement between Pala & Citi.

Pala still own the shares, but have lent these shares to Citi (also the nominee holder) for a fee. A bit like renting out your house so that you receive a rental income. You still own the asset, but another party has the right to use your asset as they see fit.

Citi now can do what they want with the shares (in this case short sell) & buy back, returning the share holding at some point to its rightful owner (Pala).

This type of shorting will NOT appear in the ASX records as PALA the owner have not shorted, they have only only lent the shares.

It's an area condoned (via lack of control by ASX).

At some point Citi will need to hand back all shares to Pala & this is what hangseng is talking about that they are not yet finished & hence why el capo is so confident of lower prices

Watching with interest as Blackrock now have a position at 3.6c (when you include option position). It will be 'interesting' to see if/how they work together to each others benefit, as shorting & lowering the price will hurt Blackrocks book position (initially) if it does run as low as elcapo claims.

Finally someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

I will also add Citi has the right then to further "loan" stock to others such as CFD providers and brokers in general, who also sell the stock down.

Those that aren't aware of this type of arrangement only need to look to ASIC rulings on (non) disclosure regarding stock lending agreements, or more correctly "Securities Lending Agreements". This has nothing at all to do with "Reportable ASX Shortsell Stock", of which is transparent. Stock lending agreements require no such disclosure.

Those that care to can look at the original substantial holder agreement after PALA was issued shares. Noting it is reported not by PALA but a law firm on behalf of PALA and then the shares show up as Citi in the top 20 not PALA.

No surprise 4.1c and now 4c has gone and soon 3.9 will be steadily sold into etc until the short selling is over.

As for Blackrock let's see if the shares remain in their name or if they enter into a similar arrangement.

For newbies, non believers and ostriches with their heads firmly stuck in the sand:

http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/AD08+-+23+?openDocument

 

[Boggo]

Finally someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

I will also add Citi has the right then to further "loan" stock to others such as CFD providers and brokers in general, who also sell the stock down.

Those that aren't aware of this type of arrangement only need to look to ASIC rulings on (non) disclosure regarding stock lending agreements, or more correctly "Securities Lending Agreements". This has nothing at all to do with "Reportable ASX Shortsell Stock", of which is transparent. Stock lending agreements require no such disclosure.

This concept would have to scare the bejaysus out of all the people who base their investment decisions on fundamental analysis.
You are saying that you could have any stock that is perhaps fundamentally sound and it could actually be manipulated by short sellers and you wouldn't know it was happening as there is no disclosure to the ASX !

 

[skyQuake]

Finally someone who actually knows what they are talking about.

I will also add Citi has the right then to further "loan" stock to others such as CFD providers and brokers in general, who also sell the stock down.

Those that aren't aware of this type of arrangement only need to look to ASIC rulings on (non) disclosure regarding stock lending agreements, or more correctly "Securities Lending Agreements". This has nothing at all to do with "Reportable ASX Shortsell Stock", of which is transparent. Stock lending agreements require no such disclosure.

Those that care to can look at the original substantial holder agreement after PALA was issued shares. Noting it is reported not by PALA but a law firm on behalf of PALA and then the shares show up as Citi in the top 20 not PALA.

No surprise 4.1c and now 4c has gone and soon 3.9 will be steadily sold into etc until the short selling is over.

As for Blackrock let's see if the shares remain in their name or if they enter into a similar arrangement.

For newbies, non believers and ostriches with their heads firmly stuck in the sand:

http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/AD08+-+23+?openDocument

I don't think thats how it works.

That link This simply allows the owners (lenders) to sell stock that they hold legal title to, but not beneficial title, because it has been loaned out; caveat being they can settle and recall.

Nothing in relation to reporting. RG 196: Short selling - Specifically RG 196.56 deals with that.

Under a typical securities lending agreement, the lender has the right to
recall securities loaned under the agreement. Ordinarily an owner who
wishes to sell the securities placed in a securities lending program first must
wait until those securities are delivered back to the owner.

Because this is technically a long sell, and treating it as a short sell would skew daily shorts reporting incorrectly.

Since citi is selling and pala is the owner, there is still a requirement to disclose. Just like any regular securities lending arrangement.

 

[hangseng]

I don't think thats how it works.


Since citi is selling and pala is the owner, there is still a requirement to disclose. Just like any regular securities lending arrangement.

There is no requirement to disclose as Pala are not actually selling the stock, but they do remain the legal owner. If they sold/disposed of shares under their own right then they must disclose. However Pala hasn't sold any holdings, they merely "loaned" the stock. Citi can then further "loan" the stock to others via securities lending agreements and I am certain they have.

PEN now selling into 3.9 on BOT selling as I previously stated would occur, believe what you will this is happening. When it is over PEN will make exceptional buying. Probably is now but an even better entry is likely to occur courtesy of this lending agreement.

One day all the stock will go back to Pala. In the meantime the BOT is having a field day and short term entry/exit points are provided along the way for anyone that cares to do so. After the rise to 7.4 I stated to my group offline PEN would be sold off, it was and I stated the same on and offline when it rose again to 5.0, both times on the back of very positive announcements. No more announcements and the selling continues to where who knows but I believe sub 3.0c is on the cards and maybe even el capo's sub 2.0c, it is anyones guess but the BOT.

As long as that stock lending arrangement is in place I expect this pattern to continue.

 

[reichman]

With a Lance JORC Update and the initial Karoo JORC expected any day now (as per the company telling shareholders at the recent AGM) , to believe sub 3c and even possibly sub 2cents is still on the cards is an interesting thought.

Unless those two imminent announcements are both pretty average in content (not impossible, but difficult to imagine given Blackrock recently paying to get on board), wouldn't the wider market (and Blackrock for that matter) make it hard for the share to be sold down to such levels?

Or, have these imminent announcements been delayed?

 

[dengo]

...to believe sub 3c and even possibly sub 2cents is still on the cards is an interesting thought.

Price uptrend break confirmed by the non lagging RSI uptrend break.
RSI back into negative territory below 50

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

With a Lance JORC Update and the initial Karoo JORC expected any day now (as per the company telling shareholders at the recent AGM) , to believe sub 3c and even possibly sub 2cents is still on the cards is an interesting thought.

Unless those two imminent announcements are both pretty average in content (not impossible, but difficult to imagine given Blackrock recently paying to get on board), wouldn't the wider market (and Blackrock for that matter) make it hard for the share to be sold down to such levels?

Or, have these imminent announcements been delayed?

It is of great fascination to me that investors like you still believe in fundamentals with all their incongruities, lies, half truths and midget commentators, not exclusive necessarily of the boards of the companies you follow.

Not to say this applies to PEN.

To go through some of your points.

1. With a Lance JORC Update expected any day now.
2. With the initial Karoo JORC expected any day now.
3. As per the company telling shareholders at the recent AGM
4. Unless those two imminent announcements are both pretty average in content
5. Blackrock recently paying to get on board.
6. Blackrock for that matter make it hard for the share to be sold down to such levels?

It displays a suspension of disbelief on your part, though I know not your cognitive skills, with many ifs and buts and imponderables.

I know you not, although the phrase

"There is one born every minute." may possibly apply to you, given the above statements.

If you want to read tea-leaves, follow tech/a on ASF for the sad sack of a stock that PEN is.

gg

 

[Karlos68]

With a Lance JORC Update and the initial Karoo JORC expected any day now (as per the company telling shareholders at the recent AGM) , to believe sub 3c and even possibly sub 2cents is still on the cards is an interesting thought.

Unless those two imminent announcements are both pretty average in content (not impossible, but difficult to imagine given Blackrock recently paying to get on board), wouldn't the wider market (and Blackrock for that matter) make it hard for the share to be sold down to such levels?

Or, have these imminent announcements been delayed?

Hi reichman, I hope you are well

Unfortunately your post sounds very "Hot Copperish"

I have been playing with charts to anticipate the sub 2 cent low.

At this point I currently have a couple of probabilities...(roughly April but) reasoning for March 2013 and mid year 2013.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Price uptrend break confirmed by the non lagging RSI uptrend break.
RSI back into negative territory below 50

View attachment 50134

dengo mate, never show a chart on ASF, without volume, and never use an indicator as a buy signal. It may fool the pensioners on HC, but you will encounter problems on ASF.

gg

 

[dengo]

dengo mate, never show a chart on ASF, without volume, and never use an indicator as a buy signal. It may fool the pensioners on HC, but you will encounter problems on ASF.

gg

Hi Garpal Gumnut

Volume is meaningless in a downtrend & today was a sell signal, (RSI confirming price action).

IMO, Regards

 

[Karlos68]

dengo mate, never show a chart on ASF, without volume, and never use an indicator as a buy signal. It may fool the pensioners on HC, but you will encounter problems on ASF.

gg

Dont you go stressing Garpal

I placed a chart of the day of the high of 5.5 cents on HC with Parabolic Rise, Fib Fan trendline touch and RSI about to break.

Next day dengo provided 10 year chart of RSI breaking trendlines (nice work dengo, my compliments)

 

[Joules MM1]

corn:

......

 

[skyQuake]

There is no requirement to disclose as Pala are not actually selling the stock, but they do remain the legal owner. If they sold/disposed of shares under their own right then they must disclose. However Pala hasn't sold any holdings, they merely "loaned" the stock. Citi can then further "loan" the stock to others via securities lending agreements and I am certain they have.

Go read RG 196.5x

Pala selling does not need to disclose, because they are the real/legal owners and can recall citi's stock at any time. Citi or any other entity that 'borrowed' stock will need to disclose. However since it is claimed citi is selling they will need to disclose.

Specifically RG 196.87

RG 196.87 A short sale transaction must be reported if:
(a) a ‘seller’ makes a sale of section 1020B products to a buyer on a
licensed market in Australia; and
(b) before the time of sale, the seller had entered into or gained the benefit
of a securities lending arrangement; and
(c) at the time of the sale the seller intends that the securities lending
arrangement will ensure that some or all of the section 1020B products
can be vested in the buyer (s1020AB(1)).

Similar story for short position reporting. The only exception is where total value is less than $100k or less than 0.01% of Market cap.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Hi Garpal Gumnut

Volume is meaningless in a downtrend & today was a sell signal, (RSI confirming price action).

IMO, Regards

You break me up.

You run a Lenards.

YOu on Monday have 200 people buying chooks.

On Tuesday 2000 people queue up to buy same chooks.

What price on Tuesday?

Stick to Hotcopper mate.

gg

 

[Karlos68]

You break me up.

You run a Lenards.

YOu on Monday have 200 people buying chooks.

On Tuesday 2000 people queue up to buy same chooks.

What price on Tuesday?

Stick to Hotcopper mate.

gg

Enjoy your humour Garpul:bananasmi

Hey mate.......I am anticipating your traditional "PEN is a dawg" post.

Any time now

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Enjoy your humour Garpul:bananasmi

Hey mate.......I am anticipating your traditional "PEN is a dawg" post.

Any time now

Thanks K68.

I do not think PEN is a dawg, atm. It has always been a good trading stock, but I would not hold it longterm for quids.

Some would say that the PEN board are "challenged", and more suited to a game of monopoly than running a listed ASX company.

I do not necessarily agree with this statement.

I sometimes look at HC for guidance, pensioners say up, I sell, pensioners say down I buy.

So far from my excel sheet over the past 2 years I'm $16454.43 up.

It's a good stock, for me, god help blokes like hangseng who accumulate, if he has.

gg

 

[dengo]

You break me up.

You run a Lenards.

YOu on Monday have 200 people buying chooks.

On Tuesday 2000 people queue up to buy same chooks.

What price on Tuesday?

Stick to Hotcopper mate.

gg

So it was you doing all the buying today...time for a refresher

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5004&p=742949#post742949

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

So it was you doing all the buying today...time for a refresher

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5004&p=742949#post742949

Put up a proper chart or shutup.

gg

 

[Karlos68]

Thanks K68.

I do not think PEN is a dawg, atm. It has always been a good trading stock, but I would not hold it longterm for quids.


It's a good stock, for me, god help blokes like hangseng who accumulate, if he has.

gg

I am on the impression you have seen my 2 charts on HC.

I am on the firm belief PEN shall fall below 2 cents next year.

Do you personally feel sub 2 cents?