Overpopulation

[skc]

LOL.

Errr......you'd need to "shrink" cars & houses too.

Imagine trying to drive today's "normal" sized cars when you are just 8-10 cm tall??

Or open the front door of your "normal" sized McMansion?

Thanks for boggling my mind this morning skc! Now I feel like scrambled eggs...

Yes we will need to shrink everything, except earth itself.

Not sure if that post is directed entirely at me, but if so i never mentioned applying anything specifically to the 3rd world.

I have travelled the World too and some of the happiest you will find are in what we would class as over-populated 3rd world countries.

Bhutan is one of the happiest nations on earth...

In 2006, Business Week magazine rated Bhutan the happiest country in Asia and the eighth-happiest in the world, based on a global survey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutan

 

[Calliope]

Not sure if that post is directed entirely at me, but if so i never mentioned applying anything specifically to the 3rd world.

I have travelled the World too and some of the happiest you will find are in what we would class as over-populated 3rd world countries.

Of course not. It was about the futility of thinking that we can change foreign cultures. It's fair enough to comment but there is nothing we can do. Threads of this type are futile.

Incidentaly, kangaroos out West are in plague proportions following our wet season. The next drought will take care of that. When they begin to starve they stop breeding. In Ethopia they have their children and then watch them starve to death.

 

[prawn_86]

In Ethopia they have their children and then watch them starve to death.

Perhaps that comes down to humans being on of the few species i am aware of that have sex for pleasure instead of extending the species. And without adequate birth control Ethopia and the likes are the result.

 

[skc]

Perhaps that comes down to humans being on of the few species i am aware of that have sex for pleasure instead of extending the species. And without adequate birth control Ethopia and the likes are the result.

Dolphins also are horny.

 

[drsmith]

As a species, we need to do two things.

We need to expand the energy pie and distribute that expanded pie more evenly.

 

[Surly]

As a species, we need to do two things.

We need to expand the energy pie and distribute that expanded pie more evenly.

How will this help overpopulation?

The energy pie is in a bit of trouble as it is and redistributing it expends pie!

cheers
Surly

 

[pixel]

As a species, we need to do two things.
We need to expand the energy pie and distribute that expanded pie more evenly.

Logistics aside, what do you think will happen once the pie has been distributed?
This is what will happen: The average Global Citizen will be dirt-poor by First-World standards; scrape-by in areas, where people presently live from hand-to-mouth; and they'll feel really well-to-do - and encouraged to breed even more vigorously - in today's Starvation Zones.

The newly dirt-poor will lose all incentive to "further themselves", leaving maintenance and upkeep of plant and distribution networks to chance, or even more likely begin to sabotage the very installations. In the latter, they will be ably supported by militants from hitherto suppressed regions, who see their support base eroded because their recruits find they can live better from hand to mouth or even feel really well-to-do to procreate more vigorously.
Within a generation or two, we'll be back to Square One...

 

[Aussiejeff]

We as a world can not keep on growing like this there is going to massive problems in the future.
Since 1960 the world has had a population increase from 3b till todays 7b and is expecting 8b in 2027
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Interestingly, digging into the data reveals the world population will increase by approx 77 million this year alone....that's the equivalent of adding the total population of Iran each and every year to the food and resources queue.

Mind bending, ain't it?

Also worth noting is that the world population is currently growing at approx. 1.1% pa and declining steadily (down from approx 2.15% in 1972 after rocketing up prior to then). The rate of decline is expected to reach a lowly 0.5% by 2050, when the planet is due to be stuffed full with 9.2 Billion poor souls...gawd help 'em.

I wonder whether all these debt woes are to some increasing extent inextricably linked with declining world population growth rates? As already discussed, it is the prospect of booming growth rates (of any sort) that fuels buoyant speculation, investment & generally bullish sentiment. How can a grinding year on year lower population growth rate for the foreseeable future (with rapidly aging populations to boot) do anything but deflate the world economy bigtime? Are we seeing the first big deflationary move post GFC1?

http://www.google.com.au/publicdata...ue&dl=en&hl=en&q=world+population+growth+rate

 

[drsmith]

Logistics aside, what do you think will happen once the pie has been distributed?
This is what will happen: The average Global Citizen will be dirt-poor by First-World standards; scrape-by in areas, where people presently live from hand-to-mouth; and they'll feel really well-to-do - and encouraged to breed even more vigorously - in today's Starvation Zones.

If we redistribute without significant expansion then that is the likely outcome.

What I'm advocating in expansion to bring everyone up to something like first world standards. In terms of the energy required, this may seem like a dream from where we currently stand, but from a global perspective, it's where we need to aim.

 

[Julia]

The problem is that technology is the main culprit in increasing population. Now they are claiming a cure for malaria, which in the past has put a brake on population growth in the third world. And of course technology lets us live way past our use-by dates.
.

True, in objective terms. But when applied personally, say if you or I had malaria, we'd probably be pretty happy to accept a cure.

Can we have a thread that doesnt discuss the carbon tax??

+1.

While paying lip service to the dangers of over-population in Asia, Africa, Central and South America, we continue to engage in indulgences like IVF, saving premature and severely disabled babies, keeping alive people who would die without artificial support, or are brain dead. These procedures are vastly expensive and counter productive yet we think the Democratic state is obliged to do these things.

We also indulge ourselves by saving idiots who under Darwin principles should not be allowed to procreate themselves. We pull them out of the surf. we pull them off mountain tops, we rescue them from their unseaworthy boats and we rescue them from floods are fire in areas where they shouldn't be living. We think these are normal democratic entitlements, and the rescuers are called heroes.

So please let us hear no more rubbish about telling the third world how they should limit their populations by harsh laws.

Totally agree, especially when it comes to keeping old people alive against their will.

 

[sails]

Can we have a thread that doesnt discuss the carbon tax??

Yes, my apologies.

Perhaps we could fix population and any percieved co2 issues if all humans held their breath for 15 mins...

However, I still think that overpopulation presents a far greater danger to our existence than the little issues for which we may be taxed next year while baby bonuses continues to be handed out freely to all and sundry who want as many babies as they want with no regard to some sensible controls.

 

[Calliope]

Yes, my apologies.

If you are having withdrawal symptoms, sails, call it Electricity Tax.

 

[Logique]

Malthusianism comes and goes, and may be found at the base of most Green scrums. Little further comment necessary or warranted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism
..Many journalists, academics and other commentators have criticized the neo-malthusian revival on various grounds. In light of the green revolution, which has seen substantial increases in food production, sufficient to keep up with the rapid population growth of the latter 20th century, some of the more dramatic malthusian warnings now appear to many to be overstated..

 

[robusta]

This is a old video but very interesting in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

The above link is for part 1 of 8, just looked at them all again definate food for thought.

 

[Starcraftmazter]

and why should governments restrict their population growth when its that growth that is allowing their economy to grow so rapidly?

I think lifestyle standards will just continue to decline until it causes war or disease or both

You answered your own question there buddy.



These videos are also very relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnXZzx9pAmQ

 

[kimcasablancas]

This is an economic issue, and it mainly involves the status of women. It's more complicated, because the status of women doesn't happen overnight, but that seems to be the link. Countires where women have more status and therefore, more education, have more sustainable or even declining birth rates. As women gain ground, birth rates fall, and this is becoming more clear in sectors of emerging economies.

 

[Sdajii]

This is an economic issue, and it mainly involves the status of women. It's more complicated, because the status of women doesn't happen overnight, but that seems to be the link. Countires where women have more status and therefore, more education, have more sustainable or even declining birth rates. As women gain ground, birth rates fall, and this is becoming more clear in sectors of emerging economies.

I think you're mistaking two things happening at the same time for a case of cause and effect.

By this logic you could correlate any two trends of an advancing culture and say it is a case of cause and effect.

Increasing education of a population tends to cause both those things to happen, I'd argue the two trends you've identified have a common cause rather than one causing the other. You could make women as equal as you like, you could even make women rule the country and keep men as slaves, but if they're still uneducated idiots they're still going to be having sex and it's still going to cause pregnancy, they're still going to be wanting children, and they're still going to be short-sighted enough to fail to realise that having too many kids is going to make the whole family suffer.

It wouldn't matter if you were only educating the men enough to understand the situation and use contraception (or make their women use some form of it), even if they were keeping their women as utterly unequal sex slaves.

It's just that when we educate a population, women tend to gain a more equal place in society.

Before any feminists start burning their bras at me, I don't have any problem with women being educated or women having equal rights etc etc, I'm all for it, and I don't pose the above hypotheticals as any sort of ideals.

 

[kimcasablancas]

I think you're mistaking my post as well. I basically meant what you just said...that education is important because it brings women higher status and also better information regarding birth control and such. It also does decrease family size because people can put two and two together that larger families don't mean a better economic situation for them.

I worded my post poorly....sorry!

 

[sails]

This is an economic issue, and it mainly involves the status of women. It's more complicated, because the status of women doesn't happen overnight, but that seems to be the link. Countires where women have more status and therefore, more education, have more sustainable or even declining birth rates. As women gain ground, birth rates fall, and this is becoming more clear in sectors of emerging economies.

Kim, I agree with you. I think education and careers give women more choices. In days gone by, and in some cultures today, women are expected to be only home makers and care for the children while the male earns enough to keep them all.

When women have choices other than raising children, some clearly choose career over children. Also, if a woman wants both career and children, they are more likely to limit their number of children to one or two so that they can more effectively juggle both motherhood and career.

 

[Eager]

We also indulge ourselves by saving idiots who under Darwin principles should not be allowed to procreate themselves. We pull them out of the surf. we pull them off mountain tops, we rescue them from their unseaworthy boats and we rescue them from floods are fire in areas where they shouldn't be living. We think these are normal democratic entitlements, and the rescuers are called heroes.

So a significant portion of Brisbane, population 2m+, and just down the road from you, should be abandoned.