Optionetics Course - Is it good?

[GreenTreeFrog]

Do some paper trading and/orsmall scale real time trading. (I don't recommend paper trading on options)

Learn those bloody greeks like the back of your hand, contrary to what all the snake oil merchant will tell you, they really are the key to long term success; because whether you realize it or not, you are trading them.

Hi - first time poster on here but regular on many other forums.

I attended an Optionetics seminar yesterday with someone who has been to them before. He was keen to sign up but I definitely was not. I found the presenter... creepy and sweaty.

Anyway - I have ordered a couple of books that I have seen recommended several times:

The Psychology of Trading
Options as a Strategic Investment

I am hoping these books will help me start on the road to successfully trading options.

I was just wondering, wayneL, why you do not recommend paper trading options and can you explain more about getting to know Greeks. Do you mean
Theta, Delta etc?

Thanks!

 

[Boggo]

The CBOE has a free downloadable interactive software that will teach you the greeks etc, well worth a look.

http://www.cboe.com/LearnCenter/Software.aspx

Mike

 

[wayneL]

I was just wondering, wayneL, why you do not recommend paper trading options

Because of the shifting spread and that the last traded price does not represent the tradeable price.

It's not too bad if you can sit in front of a screen and take available bids and asks, otherwise it is just too easy to delude yourself

and can you explain more about getting to know Greeks. Do you mean
Theta, Delta etc?

Yes. Also how changes in price/time/volatility changes the behaviour of the greeks.

It's not rocket science, but it is more complicated than other derivatives and takes time to get it consolidated in your mind via the learning process. \/

unconscious incompetent => conscious incompetent => conscious competent => unconscious competent

 

[cmh888]

I found the presenter... creepy and sweaty.

I had to laugh when I read this. I attended an introductory workshop this week. The next day I had 2 missed calls on my mobile phone and two emails asking for feedback. I decided that I could either give polite feedback or honest feedback. Here is the honest feedback I emailed back ... haven't heard back from them!?!

My feedback on the 2 hour free workshop is that I did learn a few things that I had not known previously, however I found the style of the presenter annoying and, at times, patronising. Given that this was an introduction to trading strategies for options and an invitation to attend further workshops, I was somewhat bemused when the presenter spoke so much about his own family, and was self-indulgent enough to even include their photographs in his slideshow.

As someone who was interested in learning a bit more about options trading, I did take away a few new pieces of information, however did not expect to have to listen to a stranger rant about loving one another. Did he assume that those attending were somehow morally lacking and that it was his job to set them straight? More like a church service at times. I also found his ground rules and constant reference to his own sense of humour terribly tiresome. It is Optionetics who should be thankful for the attendance, not the other way around.

Unfortunately for your company, I can spot a well-rehearsed salesman a mile off. The 'funny guy, family man who got rich, don't ask questions unless they are on my terms and I won't take a breath so you don't get the chance' approach is very transparent.

 

[wayneL]

Unfortunately for your company, I can spot a well-rehearsed salesman a mile off. The 'funny guy, family man who got rich, don't ask questions unless they are on my terms and I won't take a breath so you don't get the chance' approach is very transparent.

It's a lot like an Amway presentation when you think about it.

 

[mmonkey]

The CBOE has a free downloadable interactive software that will teach you the greeks etc, well worth a look.

http://www.cboe.com/LearnCenter/Software.aspx

Mike

Thanks Mike for the URL, I heard people talking about (CBOE and fidelity) but I don't know where to find it. I'll download their software and practice it!

 

[porkpie324]

optionetics

If this Q has been requested previously please forgive me.
There is a series of introductory seminars being organised by Optionetrics, has anyone attended one and if so was it of value, also if any experianced option traders would like to comment on the above please do.
I am thinking of options rather than CFD's in these present market conditions, after trading CFD's successfully for about 18 months up until Nov last year, I'm finding the market is not trending as well now making CFD's difficult, porkpie

 

[peter2]

Learning to trade options profitably takes a lot of work. There is a lot to learn. There is a lot to understand. Optionetics will sell you the education or you can buy the books recommended many times in this forum. Optionetics will sell you educational seminars and audio-visual aids which will explain most of the details and market requirements of each option strategy. You will be on your own with the books and will have to go though the option strategies in a very detailed manner. It depends on how you learn best, by being shown or finding out by yourself.

Directional trading is perhaps the easiest to start with. Do you have a profitable trading system already? Do you have software that will scan the market looking for the setups you want to trade? If not, then you will need something and then you will have to learn how to use it efficiently. Scanning software is a necessary "tool of the trade". Optionetics will recommend one product, but there are many available. Do you understand what you may need and do you have the time to look?

The best way to understand the effect of the greeks is to backtest your trading setups and follow the value of multiple options day by day in concert with the price charts. You will need to do this over and over again for as many of your setups as possible. This will take a lot of time. You will need access to a database of historic option prices to backtest your trading strategies. Optionetics will sell you access to their database. I am sure there are others available, maybe even a free one somewhere. You will have to learn to use the option analysis software. Will you teach yourself or pay someone to help you?

The 2-hr sales pitch is just that. It aims to sign you up. Optionetics will provide a stack of useful information for you once you sign. Will this make you successful, absolutely not. IMO 90% of Optionetics students will not be profitable. You have to work damn hard to "get it".

I was at one of the 2d seminars recently and there were a lot of people that have never traded shares. They signed up to make profits trading options, but know nothing about trading shares, know nothing about TA, know nothing of managing the risks in trading. It is going to be a long hard journey for many before they even get to the option "greeks".

Are you prepared to work damn hard to become successful in this career?

----------------------------------

porkpie324: The market may not be trending, but there are a stack of cfd tradable shares that are in very good trends, some up, most down.

 

[sophieyan]

With all these courses, I feel that what they teach is generally OK. Optionetics does teach the basics in their 2 day seminar, but what they don't tell you at their introductory night is that the 2 day is only the beginning. If you want to learn seriously about options, there are many, many more courses - all several thousand each.

It's the price tag that is overdone - something like paying $100 for an icecream - nothing wrong with the icecream itself - just overpriced.

Yep, I think there are a lot more to be learned about it. I was doing finance in the university, and most of courses are about derivatives. Spent at least one year to learn options. It is not that easy to get the whole piture in just two day courses. Once you understand the whole thing, it is so much fund in it, like playing games. The money you make is the money other people might lose. I recently watch closely on the options of ausssie gold coys, like GBM, ALD, RND ect. Get ready to make money!!!

 

[robe4]

Have done the optionetics basic course paid $260.00 for coursework books and c/ds, have had some luck with trading but rather get adviced from a broker who deals in options. You will find this on their website.

 

[sophieyan]

Have done the optionetics basic course paid $260.00 for coursework books and c/ds, have had some luck with trading but rather get adviced from a broker who deals in options. You will find this on their website.

Can u post the useful website? Thx

 

[RichKid]

Yep, I think there are a lot more to be learned about it. I was doing finance in the university, and most of courses are about derivatives. Spent at least one year to learn options. It is not that easy to get the whole piture in just two day courses. Once you understand the whole thing, it is so much fund in it, like playing games. The money you make is the money other people might lose. I recently watch closely on the options of ausssie gold coys, like GBM, ALD, RND ect. Get ready to make money!!!

Hi Sophie,

Welcome to ASF! You'll find lots of great threads in this Derivatives forum. It'll be interesting to see what you think of the material here in comparison to what you were taught at uni. Please feel free to contribute in those threads if you see something of interest.

btw, those co's you refer to suggest that you trade co issued options rather than eto's...is this correct? Just curious.

 

[RichKid]

Can u post the useful website? Thx

Try googling it Sophie and please read the ASF Code of Conduct and Posting Guidelines please, this'll help you make the best of the site.

 

[JHB888]

After cancelling out a few times I finally went along to an Optionetics seminar at North Ryde the other day. The presentation was certainly slick, perhaps too slick, options trading cannot be this simple and the idea of learning a complex subject in 2 days did not sit well with me at all, only one person of about 25 put their hand up so we all either missed the point or we were not quite as gullible as expected. The slick 'this is my grandaughter' presenter also mentioned that the classes may have up to 250 people present. How can you learn a complex subject in 2 days, how can you even grasp the basics with 250 other people??
No, for $4k I would expect a far more personal touch. I have a 3 book set of Trading Essentials that I'm going to use instead, they seem to be quite comprehensive and well structured AND didn't cost me $4k. Also Mr Snake Oil failed to mention the mega dollar software and advanced training I discovered only by doing my research and reading these blogs. All in all $4k could well end up $4k++++++ which to me is unethical, misleading and very, very expensive. Having said that, if the Optionetics course did deliver on its promise even $4k+++++ could be value for money. But are you prepared to take the chance? Not me. If anyone has any experience with the Trading Essentials course I would appreciate some feedback.

 

[Grinder]

Yeah I cut my teeth on trading essentials awhile back (if it's by Brent Price that is) and found it to be an easy and enjoyable read in 3 modules that maps out the basics of option trading in a very simplied manner. However, tends to be alittle one dimmensional at times, from what I can remmember it was suited to the market a few years ago that is different to what is happening now. Either way, it's a good entry point to get you started.

 

[JHB888]

Thanks Grinder nice to know I'm on the right track, at least initially.

 

[>Apocalypto<]

Yeah I cut my teeth on trading essentials awhile back (if it's by Brent Price that is) and found it to be an easy and enjoyable read in 3 modules that maps out the basics of option trading in a very simplied manner. However, tends to be alittle one dimensional at times, from what I can remember it was suited to the market a few years ago that is different to what is happening now. Either way, it's a good entry point to get you started.

I also bought trading essentials, was a bit light on what it gave you for the price I felt but all in all I learnt a lot from it and I am happy I bought it. The second book on options and writing options strategies taught me a lot. Was set out in a very easy to understand manner as well.

What did u guy's think of the cci share buying method, I did have a few winning trades off it while the market was cursing up.

 

[Grinder]

What did u guy's think of the cci share buying method, I did have a few winning trades off it while the market was cursing up.

Didn't use it as wasn't doing any cc, but liked the idea of it.

 

[section61]

Hi all

This is my first time here, I went to the 2 hour free seminar the other day and it was quite interesting, probably because I don't know much about trading although already got two acounts (E-trade and CMC), but haven't started trading yet due to the fact that I don't know enough knowledge and money to start trading.

I thought the seminar was quite good and didn't sign up for the 2 day course yet due to the lack of extra cash. I didn't sign up for that 2 day course, however the next day the salesman rang me and asking me what was the reason that didn't sign up, so i told him i don't have enough money. So he offered me that they are having this special package offer which has the 2 CD and 2 books (but no 2 day course unless the purcahse the full packate), so i orded a couple of days later for $199 (the actuall cost was $500 but this is a special offer). I should receive it on Monday and going to start reading ASAP. the orignal full package was about $5995 or something, but people attended the free seminal received anohter $1800 discount. Anyway, the salesman said, if i want to purchase the full package before the 15th and 16th of june for the 2 day seminar I would received a another $300 something off the already discounted price which turns out to be $3490 if i purcahse before the 15ht of June.

I don't know much about trading that's why I am here for and I don't know if i am being galiable or what. But is it worth of my time and money. They have those seminars and sounds like it's going to cost a lot of money if you make a big money out of their knowledge to be worth of attending their semiars later on. I would like to hear what people have got to say about this. Option trading sounds like fun, and the example they used in the freeseminar sounds not as risky as many would think provide follow the strategie or guideline.

Am i being sucked in??? Please let me know know. They also claimed that if you don't make 300% profit in 6 month you will get your money back, in my case i would have to make $9000 on top of $3000 (package cost). I also briefly asked the guy on the phone, what's a good amount to if i was to follow their strategies and start trading which he said $2000 with $200 max per trade and spread out to 10 trades. Does any one got any advice to what have mention here please feel free. I am just here to learn and make money of course so I can do my own studies during the day and not have to have work too much which affects my studies.

Cheers.

 

[MRC & Co]

Re: Optionetrics - Dodgy?

But for $4k for a weekend?

To my mind an options course can only be of value if knowledge is trickle fed over a period of months. There is WAY too much to absorb in a weekend. So even if the quality of the information is quite good, it will largely be a waste of money.

Despite not having done the course, I think this statement is 100% true and most important for anybody looking to do an options course.

It took me a week of study just to get my head around some very basic strategies (spreads, naked puts, covered calls and DITM) and the lingo, let alone any depth of understanding. In a weekend, would have gone straight over my head.