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Occupy Wall Street

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Bandicoot: who is Andrew Marshall?
You say you agree with his remarks.
Could you outline how you consider "power structures can be discredited", and "distributed to the people".
It all sounds like a blurb for the Socialists.

I'd just be interested in an outline of how "the people" are going to successfully run the country in the absence of any 'power structures'.
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hi julia,

andrew marshall is an independant journalist, other than that i dont know anything about him other than i found his article that i quoted from very apt!

i find it hard to understand how you came to the conclusion his words equated to "a blurb for the socialists", from my reading of his article i concluded that he was focussing on the corrupting influence of certain powerful lobby groups, backed by both corporate parasites & manipulating NGO's such as the foundations (being the power structures) on grassroots organisations.

from my perspective (as a jeffersonist libertarian) i see his position as opposing over-regulation and domination of the population that is being engineered by institutional power structures, be it big government or crony-capitalism (the current phony-capitalist system that is manipulated and dominated by parasite 'elite' corporations at the expense of developing & small business that represent TRUE capitalism)

as an example of crony capitalism i give you JD rockefeller, a man who created the standard oil empire not by honest and productive practices but by undermining, manipulating and ultimately destroying & taking over any competition he had by whatever devious, corrupt and unethical behaviour that it took. that is not true capitalism, it is authoritarian elitism at its worst and goes hand in hand with fascism.

'competition is a sin' -JD Rockefeller

...this was the basis for the bastardisation of true capitalism that has brought us to the current corrupt financial system

i'll leave you with a relevant jefferson quote:

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
― Thomas Jefferson
 
Gundini said:
Nuff said. This guy has worked out the problem and the solution.

If you watch the documentary called "Inside Job", everything this young protestor says is explained in detail.

We all know the problem. We all know the solution. And we all know that nothing will change. We are all Muppets who spend our lives trying to protect our wealth in this great global Ponzi game.

I truly feel for this guy. He realises where we are all headed and is trying to warn the planet to rally for change. Unfortunately, he is too young to know he is fighting a losing battle against an opponent he will never defeat. :(
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That guy has shown his true colours...

 
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bandicoot76 said:
i find it hard to understand how you came to the conclusion his words equated to "a blurb for the socialists", from my reading of his article i concluded that he was focussing on the corrupting influence of certain powerful lobby groups, backed by both corporate parasites & manipulating NGO's such as the foundations (being the power structures) on grassroots organisations.
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Thanks bandicoot, for your response. My socialist comment was probably a bit of a misinterpretation of the message.

What largely provoked the comment was:
The power structures must be discredited, and power must be distributed to the people, through voluntary associations, communal groupings, and people-powered (and people-funded!) initiatives.
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Imo that has somewhat of a socialist flavour to it.

What I'm probably more interested in is how anyone might suggest this actually happens? All very well to have lofty notions about what's wrong and what should happen to make a better and more functional society, but to just say that "power must be distributed to the people" omits a huge step in reality. i.e. it isn't as if the current power structures are suddenly about to agree with this notion and readily hand over power to community groups.

And further, how equipped would these so called community groups be to actually handle any level of power? How would they organise themselves and how would they make essential decisions? Who, actually, are these community groups?

I acknowledge that I'm very literal and reluctant to accept amorphous ideological protestations, but it's one thing to clearly state what's absolutely wrong, and quite another to set out a plan for how to change it.

There are no politicians currently anywhere in the world, as far as I can tell, who come even close to being prepared to even slightly depart from the status quo.

i'll leave you with a relevant jefferson quote:

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
― Thomas Jefferson
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No argument from me. My questions are simply are about how we may have any realistic expectation of change.
 
If you do not support the protest, then you are a communist - 'nuff said.

What is communism if not taking from every hard working taxpayer to bail out failed banks?
 
Julia said:
No argument from me. My questions are simply are about how we may have any realistic expectation of change.
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Hi Julia,

Not sure change is on the agenda. Yet.

I think that the movement has been very savvy so far not to be coopted by either left or right. Despite the media trying so hard to pigeonhole them. That is my concern so far in any movement that may try to form in Australia - to be highjacked by some left wing group ....

Change? Let's not lose sight of the core message - Wall Street criminality. At present, there is an attempted Attorney General's Settlement across America, where ALL institutions pay a collective $20 billion fine and in return receive immunity from future prosecution for their crimes relating to the packaging, selling and marketing of complex Mortgage backed securities.

The only complication is that the Attorney General of New York told them to get stuffed with that '****ty deal' - and as of two days ago the LA Attorney General says its too low. Essentially, for a price that everyone accepts, the Washington administration is attempting to seal off the criminality in a one time out of court settelment. But $20 Billion? Collectively? For a Trillion dollar crime? Come on!

All eyes to Australia with the case brought against S&P by the 11 local councils. Riveting stuff so far. ABN AMBRO basically rated their own highly risky product AAA, prompting an ABN junior to email a colleague, 'Isn't that S&P's job?' The next 10 weeks of the Federal court case will be revealing.

In short, as I see it, the main value of these protests will be the pressure they exert on the authorities to bring the criminality clearly to the surface and see Wall Street executives jailed. Not fined. Jailed.

Anything else is our failure not to look, or being too self-interested to care. Noone is calling for the end of capitalism, or banking. Only to bring to justice those who knowingly, recklessly, willfully, gambled and lost with the livelihoods of millions of American and international investors.

To say that these instruments were too complex is to be disingenuous. The knew and not one major politician has expressed moral outrage with some real judicial action. It seems like Washington has only been focused on decriminalising the criminal acts. It wont wash this time. Times up.

See some more excellent reporting from Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone on this AG Settlement
http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...settlement-the-next-big-bank-bailout-20111005
 
BradK said:
I think that the movement has been very savvy so far not to be coopted by either left or right. Despite the media trying so hard to pigeonhole them. That is my concern so far in any movement that may try to form in Australia - to be highjacked by some left wing group ....
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What do they want?:dunno:

When do they want it?:dunno:
 
Calliope said:
What do they want?:dunno:

When do they want it?:dunno:
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They want an adequate legislative and judicial response to Wall Street corruption, specifically in relation to the packaging and selling of mortgage backed securities, and the frauds perpetrated around that.

Any time would be good.
 
Julia said:
There are no politicians currently anywhere in the world, as far as I can tell, who come even close to being prepared to even slightly depart from the status quo
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there is only one IMO, libertarian (R) presidential candidate Ron Paul. his book 'liberty defined' lays open his positions on many issues and how he would tackle them... a good read :2twocents
 
"it's called the american dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it" (language warning)

 
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disarray said:
"it's called the american dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it" (language warning)

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RIP George Carlin... what an awesome vid (must admit i saw it years ago) but how spot on was this guy! :D
 
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Does anyone know what they want besides "stuff"? This protester, Omar Hassan, in Melbourne got more than he wanted.

243965-occupy-violence.jpg
 
"Never be decieved that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth." - Lucy Parsons :(
 
"Arabic Spring" in Australia. What a load of garbage.:rolleyes:


While Australian protesters may have suffered a few bumps and bruises from run-ins with the police, in Libya the damage is obvious - particularly in cities such as Misratah. The victims are obvious, too, even in small towns where posters of young men and women killed during the uprising adorn the streets.

Abdesalam, 29, a hospitality student, said when looking at the New York protesters he thought they were lucky. "My uncle was put in a box by Gaddafi," he said.

But Darren Bloomfield, another member of Occupy Sydney, thought otherwise.

"This is the lucky country? Lucky for nobody, I don't think. It's the country of struggle," he said.
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ring-say-libyans/story-fn59niix-1226177798417
 
Maybe someone should point out to Dazza that in many real countries of struggle the local citizenry aren't lucky like he is to be able to squat on a main thoroughfare while collecting benefits paid for by those he depises.
 
Ho Hum.

But what's new? Governor-general Paul Hasluck on June 2, 1969:

AS well as using a lot of energy attacking what they don't like, the young might also give some thought to finding out what they do like. My own difficulty in understanding some sections of youthful opinion today is that I can see what they are against -- sometimes in a rather jumbled way, for they tend to get their protests mixed up together -- but I seldom can see what they are for. A placard may demonstrate whether its author can spell correctly but is incomplete evidence of whether they can think
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