Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Occupy Wall Street

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My biggest problem with this isn't that they're protesting (hey if they were just protesting financial policy in the US, I'd be on board with them!) but the fact that they don't even seem to know exactly what they're aiming at and that it seems to just come down to rich vs. poor.
 
"While I fully endorse the efforts and actions of the Occupy Wall Street protests, now emerging internationally, there are concerns which need to be addressed and kept in mind as the movement moves forward.

The process through which a potentially powerful movement may be co-opted and controlled is slight and subtle. If Occupy Wall Street hopes to strive for the 99%, it must not submit to the 1%, in any capacity.

The Occupy movement must prevent what happened to the Tea Party movement to happen to it. Whatever ideological stance you may have, the Tea Party movement started as a grass roots movement, largely a result of anti-Federal Reserve protests. They were quickly co-opted with philanthropic money and political party endorsements.

For the Occupy Movement to build up and become a true force for change, it must avoid and reject the organizational and financial ‘contributions’ of institutions: be they political parties, non-profits, or philanthropic foundations. The efforts are subtle, but effective: they seek to organize, professionalize, and institutionalize a movement, push forward the issues they desire, which render the movement useless for true liberation, as these are among the very institutions the movement should be geared against.

This is not simply about “Wall Street,” this is about POWER. Those who have power, and those who don’t. When those who have power offer a hand in your struggle, their other hand holds a dagger. Remain grassroots, remain decentralized, remain outside and away from party politics, remain away from financial dependence. Freedom is not merely in the aim, it’s in the action.

The true struggle is not left versus right, democrat versus republican, liberal versus conservative, or libertarian versus socialist. The true struggle is that of people against the institution: the State, the banks, the central banking system, the corporation, the international financial institutions, the political parties, the mainstream media, philanthropic foundations etc

The transfer of power from one institution to another does not solve the crisis of our ‘institutional society,’ whereby a few have come to dominate so much, to concentrate so much power at the expense of everyone else having so little. True liberation will result only from opposition to ‘the institution’ as an entity. Placating power from one institution to another renders resistance ineffective. The power structures must be discredited, and power must be distributed to the people, through voluntary associations, communal groupings, and people-powered (and people-funded!) initiatives.

In order to survive as a movement, money will become a necessity. Do not turn to the non-profits and philanthropic foundations for support. The philanthropies, which fund and created the non-profits and NGOs, were themselves created to engage in ‘social engineering’: to ‘manufacture consent’ among the governed, and create consensus among the governors. The philanthropies (particularly those of Carnegie, Ford, and Rockefeller) fund social movements and protest organizations so as to steer them into directions which are safe for the elites. The philanthropies are themselves run by the elite, founded by bankers and industrialists striving to preserve their place at the top of the social structure in the midst of potentially revolutionary upheaval."
-Andrew Marshall

I COULDNT AGREE MORE! ......BANDICOOT
 
kimcasablancas said:
My biggest problem with this isn't that they're protesting (hey if they were just protesting financial policy in the US, I'd be on board with them!) but the fact that they don't even seem to know exactly what they're aiming at and that it seems to just come down to rich vs. poor.
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+1!!!!
 
kimcasablancas said:
My biggest problem with this isn't that they're protesting (hey if they were just protesting financial policy in the US, I'd be on board with them!) but the fact that they don't even seem to know exactly what they're aiming at and that it seems to just come down to rich vs. poor.
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I think there is a core that know allright. Having been a part of the sytem myself once I can assure you the press are engineered to paint a picture of confusion and radicalism. Of course the latter element may be needed more and more to shift opinion in a direction that can find solutions for survival.

This following clip is from a young lad who does seem to know the bigger picture. And again acknowledgements to my friend Steve for sending it through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQow0Fhua1A
 
explod said:
I think there is a core that know allright. Having been a part of the sytem myself once I can assure you the press are engineered to paint a picture of confusion and radicalism. Of course the latter element may be needed more and more to shift opinion in a direction that can find solutions for survival.

This following clip is from a young lad who does seem to know the bigger picture. And again acknowledgements to my friend Steve for sending it through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQow0Fhua1A
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Thanks for posting it up explod.

Here's a copy of an email I sent to a couple of my former and current seppo work colleagues today.

Hi all

There is an Occupy Wall St movement currently orchestrating a "sit-in" in New York.

As I'm sure many are already aware, it comprises a mixed group of anarchists, commies, environmentalists, celebrity cling-ons and
"it's all capitalisms faultists." As well as a bunch of whole other lemmings.

But not everybody there is a lemming like this young bloke. He has his head screwed on and is outnumbered by the unintelligent throng of "blow-ins".

Good to see that there are some young people who understand what is going on.

He will probably become unemployable for his entire life after what he says in this video. I'd give him a job just for his honesty.

I'm happy to invite anyone to critique his analysis.

Cheers
Steve

It's good to see that this young American guy hasn't been playing computer games all his life.



TOO BIG TO FAIL, TOO SMALL TO PASS :eek:
 
kimcasablancas said:
My biggest problem with this isn't that they're protesting (hey if they were just protesting financial policy in the US, I'd be on board with them!) but the fact that they don't even seem to know exactly what they're aiming at and that it seems to just come down to rich vs. poor.
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+2.

explod said:
I think there is a core that know allright. Having been a part of the sytem myself once I can assure you the press are engineered to paint a picture of confusion and radicalism.
Click to expand...
Well, explod, I listened to a quite extensive interview with a spokesperson for this protest today and he was forced to agree that their philosophy is somewhat amorphous. He was quite unable to say what actually they were asking for.

Reminded me of the 'rent a crowd' bunch, usually comprising those with a gripe against something, even if they're not quite sure what, and who are happy to be roped into protesting about pretty much anything.

(The above comment should not be taken as my feeling all warm and fuzzy toward Wall Street et al.)


bandicoot76 said:
The power structures must be discredited, and power must be distributed to the people, through voluntary associations, communal groupings, and people-powered (and people-funded!) initiatives.
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Bandicoot: who is Andrew Marshall?
You say you agree with his remarks.
Could you outline how you consider "power structures can be discredited", and "distributed to the people".
It all sounds like a blurb for the Socialists.

I'd just be interested in an outline of how "the people" are going to successfully run the country in the absence of any 'power structures'.
 
Julia said:
+2.

Could you outline how you consider "power structures can be discredited"
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"There was a private vocabulary, well-known in the industry, covering these loans and related financial products: liars' loans, NINJA loans (the borrowers had no income, no job or assets), neutron loans (loans that would explode destroying the people but leaving the buildings intact), toxic waste (the residue of the securitization process). I suggest that this tells you that those who sold these products knew or suspected that their line of work was not one hundred percent honest. Think of the restaurant where the wait staff refers to the food as scum, sludge and sewage."

"To learn as we do from the excellent book by Bethany McLean and Joe Nocera, All the Devils are Here, that at the dominant mortgage originator in the United States, Ameriquest, the office chiefs fed their sales staff crystal methamphetamine to keep them going."

I think that outlines , in part, how the financial industry's done that job themselves.
Both Quotes were taken from James Galbraiths address to Dijon that I've previously linked, Not that I expect anyone to read it.
 
And this 'how the people without Structure', The market is a structure and those who manage it should make a living but it's inter play, it should work for us not us for it. So the bloated financial system that's developed under the failed 'Chicago School' experiment needs to be redressed. The Ayn Randers wont recognises it, it's not in their vocabulary, so where setting up the re-education camps now ' It's "regulation" '
 
Its an excuse to say that they movement is listless at the moment.

The media used to have spin - now they have wash.

Wash basically means that they confuse the issues so much that everyone gets so confused, everyone shrugs their shoulders, and moves on...

I agree with Bandicoot... and Andrew Marshall... they can't take money or organise institutionally...

Bankers, Austrians, Ron Paul, ... you've all had your chance. Time to go. Time for new thinking.

Brad
 
BradK said:
Bankers, Austrians, Ron Paul, ... you've all had your chance. Time to go. Time for new thinking.

Brad
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You may be right Brad K. It could be time for Americans to consider Bob Roberts once again. Wait a minute isn't the guy playing the lead role in that movie a Libertarian too?

I suppose he's also one of the "you've all had your chances" right? :D BECAUSE BOB SPELLED BACKWARDS IS STILL BOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
GumbyLearner said:


TOO BIG TO FAIL, TOO SMALL TO PASS :eek:
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Nuff said. This guy has worked out the problem and the solution.

If you watch the documentary called "Inside Job", everything this young protestor says is explained in detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzrBurlJUNk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Job_(film)

We all know the problem. We all know the solution. And we all know that nothing will change. We are all Muppets who spend our lives trying to protect our wealth in this great global Ponzi game.

I truly feel for this guy. He realises where we are all headed and is trying to warn the planet to rally for change. Unfortunately, he is too young to know he is fighting a losing battle against an opponent he will never defeat. :(
 
Gundini said:
Nuff said. This guy has worked out the problem and the solution.

If you watch the documentary called "Inside Job", everything this young protestor says is explained in detail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzrBurlJUNk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Job_(film)

We all know the problem. We all know the solution. And we all know that nothing will change. We are all Muppets who spend our lives trying to protect our wealth in this great global Ponzi game.

I truly feel for this guy. He realises where we are all headed and is trying to warn the planet to rally for change. Unfortunately, he is too young to know he is fighting a losing battle against an opponent he will never defeat. :(
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it's a shame that he is fighting a losing battle, and im sure he would be very well aware of the fact. worst part is the people he is speaking out against know he is right aswell...
 
Yeah, my only problem with that you articulate guy is that he seems to have watched one too many of those 'conspiracy' You Tube films ... you know, the 'Fed is evil, Illuminati, NWO' ****e.

... I wonder if people are beginning to wake up. Interestingly, Ralph Nader, Michael Moore, Ron Paul, Alex Jones (cough cough... what a crazy!) all seem to be on the same page at the moment.

Lloyd Blankcheque must be getting pretty nervous right now.

Brad
 
BradK said:
Yeah, my only problem with that you articulate guy is that he seems to have watched one too many of those 'conspiracy' You Tube films ... you know, the 'Fed is evil, Illuminati, NWO' ****e.

Brad
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That was my reaction to this interview too. I relate much more to the protester interviewed here http://www.alternet.org/vision/1526...now_exactly_what_they're_fighting_for/?page=1 who "was noticably uncomfortable being interviewed. He asked me several times if he could start an answer over. “You'll edit that part out?” he asked me more than once. “I'm really not good at public speaking,” he said, awkwardly."
 
Time for new thinking.

I notice how everyone on both the left and the right are trying to coopt this movement. From the unions, heck, even Obama! to Alex Jones (!) to Michael Moore... to some tea partiers, who put out a spiffy website with Middle Americans with shiny teeth and crisp blue shirts on the front page.

It is important that all the old failed entities - the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the Unions, the Banks, the mainstream media - do not get their hooks into this.

To say there are no clear demands is disingenuous. There is a strong feeling about

a) the corruption of Wall Street,
b) the presence of money in American politics which has resulted in no serious moral outrage from a single leader in Washington towards the corrupt practices of the banks,
c) the growing poverty in the United States.

That is enough to unite at the moment. Dont rush, take it slow. Time for new thinking to emerge. It might take some time. But, it will come.

As I say, Austrians, neo-liberals, Marxists, political parties, bankers have NO PART IN THE SOLUTION. The new thinking will emerge.

The BANKERS AND POLITICIANS AND THE BABY BOOMERS DO NOT HAVE THE WISDOM ON THIS. The youth do. They are the leaders of tomorrow, and by god I hope this runs!

Brad
 
BradK said:
Time for new thinking.

I notice how everyone on both the left and the right are trying to coopt this movement. From the unions, heck, even Obama! to Alex Jones (!) to Michael Moore... to some tea partiers, who put out a spiffy website with Middle Americans with shiny teeth and crisp blue shirts on the front page.

It is important that all the old failed entities - the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the Unions, the Banks, the mainstream media - do not get their hooks into this.

To say there are no clear demands is disingenuous. There is a strong feeling about

a) the corruption of Wall Street,
b) the presence of money in American politics which has resulted in no serious moral outrage from a single leader in Washington towards the corrupt practices of the banks,
c) the growing poverty in the United States.

That is enough to unite at the moment. Dont rush, take it slow. Time for new thinking to emerge. It might take some time. But, it will come.

As I say, Austrians, neo-liberals, Marxists, political parties, bankers have NO PART IN THE SOLUTION. The new thinking will emerge.

The BANKERS AND POLITICIANS AND THE BABY BOOMERS DO NOT HAVE THE WISDOM ON THIS. The youth do. They are the leaders of tomorrow, and by god I hope this runs!

Brad
Click to expand...

Hi Brad

You raise some great points.

Especially this one

b) the presence of money in American politics which has resulted in no serious moral outrage from a single leader in Washington towards the corrupt practices of the banks,

You can thank Bill & Hillary as well as Phil Gramm from Texas for that one.

The abolition of the Glass-Steagull Act.

Obama will never be Roosevelt. Too many people in his pockets.

Or as Alex Jones would say -

"Obama going after Wall Street is like Hitler testifying at Nuremberg."
 
The next thing that wouldn't shock
would be for Bono from U2 to roll out with an
acoustic set including all his buddies (ie. Bush, Putin, Brown, Trichet, Mervyn King, Bernanke, IMF goons and World Bank problem solvers etc...) That may quell the fed-up steam of the masses in New York. ROTFLMAO :rolleyes::D
 
BradK said:
Time for new thinking.

I notice how everyone on both the left and the right are trying to coopt this movement. From the unions, heck, even Obama! to Alex Jones (!) to Michael Moore... to some tea partiers, who put out a spiffy website with Middle Americans with shiny teeth and crisp blue shirts on the front page.

It is important that all the old failed entities - the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the Unions, the Banks, the mainstream media - do not get their hooks into this.

To say there are no clear demands is disingenuous. There is a strong feeling about

a) the corruption of Wall Street,
b) the presence of money in American politics which has resulted in no serious moral outrage from a single leader in Washington towards the corrupt practices of the banks,
c) the growing poverty in the United States.

That is enough to unite at the moment. Dont rush, take it slow. Time for new thinking to emerge. It might take some time. But, it will come.

As I say, Austrians, neo-liberals, Marxists, political parties, bankers have NO PART IN THE SOLUTION. The new thinking will emerge.

The BANKERS AND POLITICIANS AND THE BABY BOOMERS DO NOT HAVE THE WISDOM ON THIS. The youth do. They are the leaders of tomorrow, and by god I hope this runs!

Brad
Click to expand...

Hi Brad

If Alex Jones or Michael Moore were for real they would be either bashed by the police or at least put in gaol for a day or two for what they "believe in". Neither have done that.
Both "too soft".
Both Cream puff mouthpieces.
Neither want to lose credibility by getting arrested or bashed.
You have to do both to have any credibility in my opinion. I know I have. :D
 
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