JohnDe
La dolce vita
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The True Lifetime of Nuclear Power plants.
Check out teh PDF which details the history of tehse plants.
The True Lifespan of Nuclear Power Plants
Though nuclear plants are theoretically engineered to operate safely for 40 years—their initial permit life—our analysis of the overall record of US first generation commercial nuclear plants shows that almost two dozen reactors were shut down long before their initial license/design life expired.
View attachment 190207
Nuclear Plant Closure Chart
Among plants built before 1973, fully HALF did not make it to 40 years, or much beyond that, before closing down. Some of these shutdowns were for economic reasons, but in most cases the plants simply wore out, broke down, or never functioned properly. This record of failure can be viewed in our plant closure chart.
In addition to normal industrial wear-and-tear, nuclear plants have the unique and often irreparable liability of having their components continually exposed to varying levels of radiation. Over time, radiation embrittles and/or corrodes the infrastructure (metal components in particular) and will eventually lead to structural failure (hopefully not catastrophic!)
The most common point of failure occurs in the steam generators. Nuclear steam generators are composed of thousands of small tubes that corrode and crack, leading to radioactive water leaks into the secondary cooling system and the environment. Some plants have had their steam generators replaced at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars, while many others simply closed in the face of the expense. This issue has been detected at the Seabrook plant, though it’s unclear how far the damage has progressed at this point in its life.
The True Lifespan of Nuclear Power Plants - Seacoast Anti-Pollution League
Though nuclear plants are theoretically engineered to operate safely for 40 years—their initial permit life—our analysis of the overall record of US firstsaplnh.org
Two main components determine a plant’s lifetime: the reactor pressure vessel and the containment structure, says Jacopo Buongiorno, a professor of nuclear engineering at MIT.MIT technology review
The new owner of a plant in Michigan that was shut down in 2022 is now working to reopen it, as I reported in my latest story. If the restart is successful, the plant could operate for a total of 80 years. Others are seeing 20-year extensions to their reactors’ licenses. Extending the lifetime of existing nuclear plants could help cut emissions and is generally cheaper than building new ones. So just how long can we expect nuclear power plants to last?
Two main components determine a plant’s lifetime: the reactor pressure vessel and the containment structure, says Jacopo Buongiorno, a professor of nuclear engineering at MIT.
- The reactor pressure vessel is the heart of a nuclear power plant, containing the reactor core as well as the associated cooling system. The structure must keep the reactor core at a high temperature and pressure without leaking.
- The containment structure is a shell around the nuclear reactor. It is designed to be airtight and to keep any radioactive material contained in an emergency.
Both components are crucial to the safe operation of a nuclear power plant and are generally too expensive or too difficult to replace. So as regulators examine applications for extending plant lifetimes, they are the most concerned about the condition and lifespan of those components, Buongiorno says.
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And that is why Torness is closing down as well as many other power stations.
Yep if, somehow, there is a way to repair/restore ancillary parts of Nuclear Power station it might make sense to do so.( I note that the writer also hedges his bet on the overall cost effectiveness of trying to repair various failing elements of a reactor. I think engineers would be very cautious about trying to restore 30 year old Nuclear Power stations. And if so at what final cost ?)
But that is not the case in the overall scheme of things. And it certainly should be postulated as the basis for a blue sky nuclear program in Australia.
Two main components determine a plant’s lifetime: the reactor pressure vessel and the containment structure, says Jacopo Buongiorno, a professor of nuclear engineering at MIT.
- The reactor pressure vessel is the heart of a nuclear power plant, containing the reactor core as well as the associated cooling system. The structure must keep the reactor core at a high temperature and pressure without leaking.
- The containment structure is a shell around the nuclear reactor. It is designed to be airtight and to keep any radioactive material contained in an emergency.
Both components are crucial to the safe operation of a nuclear power plant and are generally too expensive or too difficult to replace. So as regulators examine applications for extending plant lifetimes, they are the most concerned about the condition and lifespan of those components, Buongiorno says.
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And that is why Torness is closing down as well as many other power stations.
Yep if, somehow, there is a way to repair/restore ancillary parts of Nuclear Power station it might make sense to do so.( I note that the writer also hedges his bet on the overall cost effectiveness of trying to repair various failing elements of a reactor. I think engineers would be very cautious about trying to restore 30 year old Nuclear Power stations. And if so at what final cost ?)
But that is not the case in the overall scheme of things. And it certainly should be postulated as the basis for a blue sky nuclear program in Australia.
I guess the obvious question is Bas, where and when are the mega dams going to be built, to supply the long duration storage?
I guess the obvious question is Bas, where and when are the mega dams going to be built, to supply the long duration storage?
Snowy 2.0 is one, but several more will be required, yet no one is talking about it, I find that strange because everyone knows batteries can't do it and gas isn't much cleaner than coal.
So there is no point comparing nuclear with nuclear, people need to compare nuclear with something else that is clean and can supply long term grunt when it is required, otherwise it is just another hollow argument and a scam IMO.
People are quick to complain about the build time for nuclear and I do agree, but Snowy 2.0 has been going on for nearly 10 years and no other similar sized dam projects have been announced, so really isn't the nuclear argument similar to the renewables long duration argument?
People aren't stupid and both sides if politics have holes in both their stories, so credibilitity is a huge issue ATM.
Currently you have Dutton saying that nuclear wont cost a lot, but will supply the clean power required and the public dont believe the cost or the time frame, but they do believe the power output.
Labor is saying trust us we have this, but really a lot aren't sure, because there isn't any long term storage, there is a lot of issues with installing adequate renewable generation and there isn't many definitive answers on how much of anything renewable is required.
It is like a leap of faith project and I hope Labor get in to see it through, because the coal generators can't go on forever and people need to own the dream to get it done, or die on the cross trying, because it is a huge undertaking and kudos to them if they pull it off.
My guess is it will be a mop and bucket issue that will require a huge amount of money and pain to fix, time will tell.
First things first, we have to get Labor back in.
Planned $2bn South Australian offshore wind farm scrapped
A planned $2bn wind farm off the South Australian coast has been axed, with the application for the Kingston project pulled this month.
Another proposed wind farm development has been shelved, with the partners behind a contentious plan in South Australia quietly pulling the project.
An application with federal environmental regulators for the almost $2bn SA offshore wind farm project – also known as the Kingston project – was withdrawn without explanation this month.
The project was originally proposed by British company Australis Energy.
German group Skyborn Renewables – which is involved in operating or under-construction wind farms in Germany, Taiwan, France and the US – stepped in as a 50-50 joint venture partner in 2022.
Under the original plan for the project, about a third of the proposed 75 wind turbines would have sat in state, as opposed to commonwealth, waters.
The closest of the turbines – which together would have been capable of generating up to 600 megawatts of energy – would have been about 6.5km from the coast.
But that initial proposal was knocked back in August 2023 by SA Planning Minister Nick Champion, who said at the time that he believed the project had the potential to cause real harm to local aquaculture and fishing industries.
Skyborn said in the wake of the rejection that they continued to push on with a plan to develop the project further out to sea but wholly within commonwealth waters. That plan, too, now looks in doubt following the withdrawal of the federal application.
A spokeswoman for Skyborn declined to comment on the decision.
The apparent demise of the project makes it the latest in a string of failed wind proposals around Australia, despite the Albanese government’s advocacy for the sector and its reliance on wind power to help meet its 2030 renewable energy target.
In October, UK-headquartered RES Group formally withdrew its proposal to develop the 63-turbine, 441 megawatt Barneys Reef wind farm north of Gulgong in central NSW.
In that instance, RES cited the impact of new planning requirements in NSW as well as challenging economics for the decision.
And in July, Korea Zinc subsidiary Ark Energy pulled its plans for a 430MW, 54-turbine Doughboy wind farm between Armidale and Coffs Harbour, in northern NSW, after determining that the project was “no longer viable”.
The outlook for large-scale wind power in Australia has been further complicated by the position of Peter Dutton, who has vowed to scrap three of the six priority wind farm areas declared by Energy Minister Chris Bowen.
The federal Opposition Leader has promised to abolish the declared areas off the coast of NSW’s Illawarra and Hunter regions as well as off the coast of Bunbury in Western Australia, adding to the regulatory uncertainty facing would-be developers eyeing off those regions.
The Coalition’s energy policy is underpinned by introducing nuclear power to the electricity grid.
Mr Dutton this month released the Coalition’s nuclear-plus-renewables plan based on a Frontier Economics report that showed it would cost up to $263bn less than Labor’s renewables-only plan and result in cheaper electricity prices for consumers.
Jim Chalmers on Friday mounted a new government attack on the Coalition plan, which has also attracted opposition from the states. The Treasurer released government modelling suggesting that for Mr Dutton’s plan to work it would have to rely on the east coast states shedding $4 trillion of economic growth by 2050.
Well if the majority want that, so be it, that's how democracies work.Yeah, because we’re heading down the socialist route we might as well continue towards the goal of highest taxed and most expensive electricity in the world.
"project cost estimates from 2020 with those given in 2024. Most projects costs were wildly underestimated...but we don't even know which projects the CSIRO included in the model because they haven't given us the data"
Keeping the door closed on nuclear makes zero sense
JENNIE GEORGE
Many nations believe that achieving net-zero emissions by 2050 requires nuclear in their energy mix.
Australia is the only G20 country that maintains a nuclear ban. It has been 26 years since the Howard government agreed to the Greens’ amendment, a condition of proceeding with a research reactor at Lucas Heights in Sydney’s southwest. There’s no rational reason for maintaining the ban.
Just days ago the government signed an agreement with Britain described as “an important step in establishing a sovereign nuclear submarine build capability in Australia”.
Keeping the door closed on emissions-free, next-generation nuclear technologies makes no sense and is not in our national interest.
The recent Frontier Economics report outlined a less costly pathway to 2050 with nuclear in the mix. Labor clings to its mistaken belief that intermittent, weather-dependent renewables can power our economy.
With Climate Change and Energy Minister Chris Bowen rejecting gas even as a transition fuel, how will the government ensure reliable baseload power 24/7 to meet the demands of industry and households? Bowen’s immediate instinct was to score political points by challenging the credibility of Frontier Economics.
He described its costings as not passing the “sniff test” and claimed the figures were dodgy. Another minister said it had “the shelf life of a seafood milkshake”.
Bowen can’t sustain any credible argument about costs until the Albanese government makes public its whole-of-system costings for its Reliable Renewables plan. We know the government’s energy transition is anchored in magic pudding economics, held together by subsidy upon subsidy, taxpayer-funded relief packages and off-budget outlays.
The opaque underwriting of secret contracts for renewable projects provides a bonanza in what’s described as crony capitalism. The government’s costings remain a mystery, and the Energy Minister maintains the fiction that the plan would cost $122bn.
Bowen references the use of that figure by the Australian Energy Market Operator but conveniently fails to mention its exclusions. AEMO makes clear that “the $122bn value includes transmission augmentation, utility-scale generation and storage capex, and does not include the cost of commissioned, committed or anticipated projects, consumer energy resources and distribution network upgrades”.
What is being constructed is not the cheapest energy system for consumers, it’s the lowest-cost pathway to meet the government’s targets and objectives. That’s precisely why AEMO’s chief executive, at a Senate hearing, could not promise lower power prices.
Frontier Economics costed the opposition’s plan at $331bn, $263bn less than Labor’s at $594bn. How that 44 per cent cost differential will affect power prices is still to be revealed.
The Darlington Nuclear generating station in Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada. Picture: Getty Images
Bowen argues that extending the life of coal-fired power stations is “terrible news for Australia’s emissions … and for the reliability of our grid”. His statement is disingenuous.
A few days earlier he’d reached initial agreement to give the states the power to mandate the extension of retiring coal and gas-fired plants if that was needed to keep the lights on and ensure reliable supply – yet another confirmation of problems with Labor’s transition. This is the inevitable result of Labor’s plan that prioritises meeting the 2030 targets at the expense of ensuring reliable and affordable power all day, every day.
NSW Premier Chris Minns understood thisand reached agreement with Origin Energy to keep the Eraring coal-fired power station operating at least until 2027. The Victorian government, in secret contracts, extended the life of Yallourn to mid-2028 and Loy Yang A until 2035. That leaves 10 coal-fired plants in the national market scheduled to remain operating beyond 2030; three in NSW, six in Queensland and one in Victoria.
Then there’s the critical issue of power prices and the broken 2022 election promise of power bills to be cut by $275 a year by 2025.
In a recent interview Bowen was asked: “If it wasn’t for cost-of-living subsidies, would power bills be cheaper next year?” He replied: “Well, I don’t quite follow the logic of that question. But look, we’ve just had the largest reduction on energy bills in Australian history according to the ABS.” Why did he resort to spin instead of stating the obvious?
An analysis of Australian Bureau of Statistics data reveals that without taxpayer subsidies we’d be paying prices that were higher by 66 per cent. Power bills will keep going through the roof while reliability falls and the queues in energy poverty grow.
Energy and cost-of-living pressures will be key issues at the election, which could be held as soon as late February. This timing would suit the government to avoid disclosing its 2035 emissions reduction target (previously suggested at 65-75 per cent); the draft power price increases for 2025-26, due in early March; and the bad news budget scheduled for March 25.
The Albanese government wants us to believe it governs in the Hawke tradition. On nuclear energy they are miles apart.
Bob Hawke believed in the contest of ideas and as a known supporter argued we should “put all the passions and prejudices to one side and look at the facts”. It would be a fitting tribute to his legacy for the government to lift the nuclear ban, make public its whole-of-system costings and lead a meaningful debate on an issue of such national importance.
Jennie George is a former ACTU president and Labor MP for Throsby.
Riding around the ANU grounds, it is amazing.
The ANU has all the skills and technology to teach our brightest minds, as well as those from other countries.
Nuclear science is becoming an important field that crosses fields such as medical physics, mining, defence, security, policy as well as the classic field of physics. Our research-led teaching spans undergraduate and postgraduate levels and covers all aspects of nuclear science, including reactor science, nuclear fuel cycles and how to ensure policy debates on nuclear issues are informed by science and best practice.
Department of Nuclear Physics & Accelerator Applications
Department of Nuclear Physics & Accelerator Applications at the Australian National Universityphysics.anu.edu.au
Go figure, if the renewables plan falls on its butt, I wonder what plan B will be.
Is the Coalition's nuclear power plan cheaper than renewable energy? - ANU Policy Brief
policybrief.anu.edu.au
Go figure, if the renewables plan falls on its butt, I wonder what plan B will be.
I doubt it, not because it wouldn't make sense because we do have a lot of coal, but because until it is proven emissions are not causing global warming reducing emissions is the main game.I don't think it will be nuclear. I think they will build more coal stations first and take the flak from the Greens.
There is no way new coal will go ahead, if it means global warming keeps increasing, that wouldn't make sense.
I think they will pick nuclear, young people don't have the inherent fear of it and they know it has plenty of grunt, the worst outcome for young people would be the fear of actually not being able to get online and game.1. if people have to decide between keeping their beer cold or our tiny contribution to climate change, what would they pick do you reckon ?
2. The Greens are going to oppose anything to do with hydro or gas, the only viable options for firming renewables and won't vote nuclear either, so until they go nothing good will happen.
3. Nothing has been said about all the other contributions to GHG emissions, like agriculture etc.
Pick off the low hanging fruit first, but people wont be happy if the low hanging fruit goes pear shaped.3. Nothing has been said about all the other contributions to GHG emissions, like agriculture etc.
I was reading today the Green vote has fallen with young voters, as I said they are connecting and discussing on social media, so some of the young will go with the renewable story others will go with the nuclear story.2. The Greens are going to oppose anything to do with hydro or gas, the only viable options for firming renewables and won't vote nuclear either, so until they go nothing good will happen.
Interesting times. I must borrow @IFocus caravan if it goes pear shaped, I could put it on the sons block until everything is sorted.
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