Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

NBN Rollout Scrapped

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sydboy007 said:
Once again attaining political power trumps supporting sound policy.

There'd be short term pain in a backflip, but it just might be the circuit breaker needed to shake his Dr NO image.
Click to expand...

I dissagree, Labor would really run with any weakening of the coalitions stance on the NBN, at this point.

I think Abbott will soon turn the tables on the dr no thing, it is getting a bit off topic.
But as shown in the article below Abbott blows Swans feet off, in this too and frowing.
Swan would do better by saying nothing he certainly is no assett. IMO sorry it is a bit off topic.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...a-party-comments/story-e6freono-1226580957617
 
I don't know how the LNP can justify the behaviour during the latest Senates Estimates hearing

What are we to make, for instance, of Senator Bill Heffernan’s statement that if Conroy turned off his laptop, which he had with him to aid in the Senate Estimates process, his “brain would go dead”? Or his following statement that Conroy was “full of ****” ”” a statement he made repeatedly? Or Senator Ian McDonald’s statement that NBN Co was “full of Labor Party apparatchiks right from the top”? Or Heffernan’s later statement that Quigley was “brain-dead”?

Now if this was the uncouth behaviour of union officials, I'm sure quite a few member of this forum would be up in arms. When when it's members of the LNP doing the argy bargy, well seems the attitude is that the ALP deserve it.

I ask you, how many people on this forum talk to their work colleges in the same manner?

One measure of the farcical nature of the ongoing Senate Estimates hearings with respect to the NBN is the fact that during calendar year 2012, NBN Co was asked some 444 questions on notice by Senators and members of the Joint Parliamentary Committee into the NBN ”” including 192 alone from Liberal Senator Simon Birmingham. Upon examining the questions, it’s possible to ascertain ”” as Senator Conroy pointed out during last week’s session ”” that a large amount of them could be answered by the questioners themselves by simply viewing the appropriate section of NBN Co’s comprehensive website.

Obviously LNP senators like things to be served up to them on a silver platter.
 
sydboy007 said:
I don't know how the LNP can justify the behaviour during the latest Senates Estimates hearing

What are we to make, for instance, of Senator Bill Heffernan’s statement that if Conroy turned off his laptop, which he had with him to aid in the Senate Estimates process, his “brain would go dead”? Or his following statement that Conroy was “full of ****” ”” a statement he made repeatedly? Or Senator Ian McDonald’s statement that NBN Co was “full of Labor Party apparatchiks right from the top”? Or Heffernan’s later statement that Quigley was “brain-dead”?

Now if this was the uncouth behaviour of union officials, I'm sure quite a few member of this forum would be up in arms. When when it's members of the LNP doing the argy bargy, well seems the attitude is that the ALP deserve it.

I ask you, how many people on this forum talk to their work colleges in the same manner?

One measure of the farcical nature of the ongoing Senate Estimates hearings with respect to the NBN is the fact that during calendar year 2012, NBN Co was asked some 444 questions on notice by Senators and members of the Joint Parliamentary Committee into the NBN ”” including 192 alone from Liberal Senator Simon Birmingham. Upon examining the questions, it’s possible to ascertain ”” as Senator Conroy pointed out during last week’s session ”” that a large amount of them could be answered by the questioners themselves by simply viewing the appropriate section of NBN Co’s comprehensive website.

Obviously LNP senators like things to be served up to them on a silver platter.
Click to expand...

While all very petty, it's pretty typical behaviour from one politician to another, but I do draw the line at Heffernan describing Mr Quigley as "brain dead".

I doubt you could find a more intelligent and successful man in telecommunications anywhere in the World, and from all reports very well respected and likeable. For the tech-illiterate like Heffernan to call him brain-dead is a pretty low ebb of the debate.
 
sydboy007 said:
as Senator Conroy pointed out during last week’s session ”” that a large amount of them could be answered by the questioners themselves by simply viewing the appropriate section of NBN Co’s comprehensive website.

Obviously LNP senators like things to be served up to them on a silver platter.
Click to expand...

lol

It is always different getting it from the horse's mouth.

Conroy can hide behind bs and fabricated statements on a website, but if he SAYS the bs then it comes back to bite him on the ass.

MW
 
drsmith said:
More indigestion on the rollout ?

http://afr.com/p/technology/contractor_troubles_hit_nbn_rollout_B84IZXkCUmoiUV3dTGkZdO
Click to expand...
What do you seriously expect? Has there ever been a situation where a contractor doing electrical or similar work for government didn't either mess it up or walk away with a ridiculous sum of money? Government = easy money and the whole industry knows it.

As I've said before, business and government don't mix well. Business should run business and government should keep away. If government is going to build the NBN then NBNCo should set up their own works depots, hire their own labour and so on. Doing so ends up far cheaper in the long run. Heck, even privately owned utilities are going back to this approach to some extent.

Just wait until the inevitable kinks in the cable, improperly removed asbestos, sinking pits, insufficient compaction and poor reinstatement start turning up. Then it'll be a real circus.

Handing huge profits to contractors doesn't mean you have small government. It actually means you have a far bigger government than necessary due to the additional taxation required. The sooner people work this out, the better off business and individuals alike will be. :2twocents
 
drsmith said:
Interesting.

The AFR is Fairfax.
Click to expand...

News print and TV media are directly threatened by the NBN hence most are actively dead against it News have pretty much taken the lead in shock negative coverage.
 
Unbelievable... first they won't release costings and now they want an industry study to determine the best way to build the NBN? Why didn't they think about that BEFORE they started spending tax payers money?

It would seem anything the coalition might do with the NBN is highly likely to be an improvement...:D


The head of the National Broadband Network (NBN) wants an industry study to determine the best way to build the high-speed internet project.

Construction has been underway on the NBN for more than two years but there is still debate over which technology should be used.
Click to expand...

and

Opposition communication spokesman Malcolm Turnbull says the study should have been completed before the Government embarked on the NBN project.

"Mike Quigley's statement today is a colossal admission of failure," he told PM.

"It is admitting that the Government has made a hash of this ... that there needs to be an examination of the different options and ... that should have been done four years ago."
Click to expand...

Read more: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-22/nbn-boss-calls-for-study-into-broadband-policy/4535092
 
sails said:
Unbelievable... first they won't release costings and now they want an industry study to determine the best way to build the NBN? Why didn't they think about that BEFORE they started spending tax payers money?

It would seem anything the coalition might do with the NBN is highly likely to be an improvement...:D




and



Read more: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-22/nbn-boss-calls-for-study-into-broadband-policy/45350[B]92
Click to expand...



Looks like there might be some holes in the drink coaster plan.

Maybe they should have done a little research first, duh


NBN 'can be changed', says Mike Quigley

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ays-mike-quigley/story-fn59niix-1226583906421

At least that intelligent and successful telecommunications man, Mr Quigley can see the light!
( Bet he doesn't wear red underpants on his head)
 
sails said:
Unbelievable... first they won't release costings and now they want an industry study to determine the best way to build the NBN? Why didn't they think about that BEFORE they started spending tax payers money?

It would seem anything the coalition might do with the NBN is highly likely to be an improvement...:D


and

Read more: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-22/nbn-boss-calls-for-study-into-broadband-policy/4535092
Click to expand...

dutchie said:
Looks like there might be some holes in the drink coaster plan.

Maybe they should have done a little research first, duh


NBN 'can be changed', says Mike Quigley

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ays-mike-quigley/story-fn59niix-1226583906421

At least that intelligent and successful telecommunications man, Mr Quigley can see the light!
( Bet he doesn't wear red underpants on his head)
Click to expand...


Interesting the way Mr Quigley's statements have been completely misconstrued by Turnbull, and then reported by the media.

He most certainly has not called for a review of the technology used for the NBN, and most certainly is not looking for "a better way" to rollout the NBN. He merely said that if the Coalition think there are better alternatives, then ask the Communications Alliance.

And the inference that no research was done on the technology chosen is blatantly false. To the contrary, the initial plan back in 2007 was FTTN. As we all know, that proposal fell over for a number of reasons, mainly Telstra. Numerous submissions recommended FTTP, and that's what the review panel recommended.

Since then of course, FTTP rollouts have exploded around the World, and it has become the technology of choice.

Turnbull's touted technologies of FTTN and HFC have just been described as the "steam trains" of broadband technology by Paul Budde. There has been no new standard for FTTN ratified since 2006. That's 7 years of stagnation!

Nobody is constructing new HFC networks around the World now, because FTTP is better and cheaper.

Nobody is constructing FTTN except for incumbent carriers/owners of copper networks. And The Govt or NBN Co are not the incumbent operator of the Australian copper network.

The fact is, that when the NBN project was begun in 2009, there was no possibility of going with an open access FTTN network instead, because Telstra owned it and they refused to co-operate. That left the Govt with little choice, and given the swath of recent FTTP announcements from around the World and the rapid obsolescence of HFC and FTTN, it has turned out to be a smart decision.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/02/20/uk-france-broadband-idUKBRE91J11D20130220
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_premises_by_country
 
NBNmyths - are you employed by someone to professionally promote NBN?

Your link in your signature seems more than a lay person's interest in NBN.
 
dutchie said:
Looks like there might be some holes in the drink coaster plan.

Maybe they should have done a little research first, duh


NBN 'can be changed', says Mike Quigley

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ays-mike-quigley/story-fn59niix-1226583906421

At least that intelligent and successful telecommunications man, Mr Quigley can see the light!
( Bet he doesn't wear red underpants on his head)
Click to expand...

If the NBN is a drink coaster plan, then Malcolm has the leftovers of a soggy napkin at an all you can eat buffet.

At least with the NBN you are guaranteed the speed you pay for. The NoBN is all about UP TO with so far nothing concrete. Now if Malcolm would state the maximum node to premises cable length, a semblance of debate could occur. I find it crass hypocrisy to complaint he Government is spending too much and yet not even be able to give an approximate figure on what his NoBN will cost.

At present the Govt has a well thought out plan for delivering fiber to practically all Australians.

The NoBN is offering what? No minimum speed. No rollout schedule. Nothing on the equipment to be used. No estimate of CAPEX and continuing OPEX. No estimate of the resale value of the network once finished.

Basically the LNP have gone from a fully costed policy last year - so Malcolm said on Lateline - only to say 3 days later that no he didn't have a fully costed plan. They still have no plan. Saying faster and cheaper 10 times a day does not constitute a plan.

I have yet to read of a story of someone complaining about the NBN once they're on it. I'm sure there's complaints about RSPs and teething probs that come from doing something new, but when businesses can gain access to 100/40 speed plans for <$150 a month with 1TB of downloads, the REVOLUTION for the SME market will probably provide productivity improvements and cost savings to businesses in excess of the cost to build the NBN. I know quite a few small business people and have yet to hear one of them say they're happy with their internet speeds. The cost to move up from ADSL is just so high that it can be hard to justify.

Tele health trials are already showing they can help reduce medical costs for the elderly by over 50% simply by allowing them to talk to their doctors via their TV with a video camera. These trials free up ambulances acting as taxis, free up hospital beds by allowing people to be monitored in their homes. Cisco has come out and said you will need a minimum 5Mbs up and down to support their new health communications systems. The NBN will do this easily, the NoBN will be able to do this ONLY for the select few mainly in the capital cities.

Malcolm is staking his reputation on a speedy rollout of the NoBN, yet has to get Telstra to agree to sell him their copper network. He's given Telstra a vice and placed his own googlies into it and pretty much told Telstra to keep applying pressure till he hands them a blank cheque. There is absolutely no incentive for Telstra to do a deal that isn't obscenely in their favour. This will go down in history as the worst negotiation tactic of a Federal Govt, up there with Gillard and the miners, though I get the feeling Malcolm's is going to cost the country far more over the long term! If the LNP win the election I say buy Telstra as they will be getting at least double the amount of payments, AND they will have entrenched their position as the dominant telco in Australia till a FTTH network is built, depending on if we've become such a slowlane country that we can even afford it.
 
sydboy007 said:
If the NBN is a drink coaster plan, then Malcolm has the leftovers of a soggy napkin at an all you can eat buffet.
Click to expand...

One of the things the lefties and the techheads need to realise is that someone has to pay for this $50 billion project.

Also, as I have been harping on about for ages, is there are better places with much greater returns to put $50 billion into.

Also the health part is a bit of a pipe dream at the moment, as the health system cannot even fund what it is doing at the moment.

The real world (where pirating movies, downloading movies and consuming should not be the main concern for government expenditure) exists, take a while and take a whiff of it.

MW
 
sails said:
NBNmyths - are you employed by someone to professionally promote NBN?

Your link in your signature seems more than a lay person's interest in NBN.
Click to expand...

As I've said many times....

No. I receive no benefit in money or otherwise for what I write about the NBN. I'm not and never have been a member of any political party. I don't know anyone who works at NBN Co or any related company. I don't own any shares (period) and I (to the best of my knowledge) don't know anyone who owns any shares in any NBN-related company.
 
medicowallet said:
One of the things the lefties and the techheads need to realise is that someone has to pay for this $50 billion project.

Also, as I have been harping on about for ages, is there are better places with much greater returns to put $50 billion into.

Also the health part is a bit of a pipe dream at the moment, as the health system cannot even fund what it is doing at the moment.

The real world (where pirating movies, downloading movies and consuming should not be the main concern for government expenditure) exists, take a while and take a whiff of it.

MW
Click to expand...

Yes, somebody does have to pay for it. And it will be the users. Most particularly the "tech heads" who pay for the biggest, fastest NBN plans and therefore make the biggest contribution to paying for the project.

And it's not a $50bn project. It's a $37bn project (capex), requiring a peak of $39bn (inc opex) of external funding either through Govt or NBN Co's own debt raising. The $11bn in opex to Telstra does not add to the funding required for the project, as it is paid progressively and therefore mostly comes from operating revenue.

But (for argument's sake) if you want to include that $11bn and call the NBN a ~$50bn project, then you must also include that $11bn (plus another $4-9bn to buy the copper) in the Coalition's "$19bn" FTTN proposal.

So that takes their policy to $34-39bn for a technology considered obsolete around the World, that will require upgrading in another 10 years.


So the broadband policy choice is:

Spend ~$50bn (inc Telstra) for an FTTP network that can already do 1000Mbps, which will probably last 50 years without requiring substantial upgrading.​
OR
Spend ~$34-39bn (inc Telstra) for an FTTN network that will deliver 18-50Mbps, which will probably require an FTTP upgrade within a decade of completion, at a further cost of at least $20bn.​

Which represents better value, would you say? :rolleyes:
 
NBNMyths said:
As I've said many times....

No. I receive no benefit in money or otherwise for what I write about the NBN. I'm not and never have been a member of any political party. I don't know anyone who works at NBN Co or any related company. I don't own any shares (period) and I (to the best of my knowledge) don't know anyone who owns any shares in any NBN-related company.
Click to expand...

I think you need therapy mate.

To get so wound up over something that is going to be scrapped in October 2013, in which you have no interest.

gg
 

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