NBN Rollout Scrapped

[sptrawler]

I suppose we'll wait for another LNP Govt to see the cookie jar is full of a tasty asset to sell off. Bet they'll add the lovely vertical integration of a Telstra and let them go full retail

Howard needs to be SHOT for selling off Telstra the way he did. Retail should have been sold, whith network / wholesale kept in public hands, or sold off as a separate entity. I would argue the way things stand that consumers and business especially, have been right royal shafted that the sale price has been lost in higher charges.

Sydboy don't get too out of shape, Labor sold off plenty as well.
I bought into the first sale of Telstra and the opposition (Labor) said it was sold too cheap. So the next tranche was sold at $7.40, I'm still waiting for it to hit that again.
Labor sold CBA at $5 first issue, $10 second tranche, I fail to see your reasoning.
Should Howard have split Telstra up and recieved less, or was Keating remiss in selling CBA cheap?
Maybe someone made a fortune out of shares?

 

[NBNMyths]

Here you go GG, some more high praise from the private sector for you:

NBN A ‘BRILLIANT FOUNDATION’, SAYS BERNERS-LEE

The inventor of the world wide web, Sir Tim Berners-Lee, says the National Broadband Network is a “brilliant foundation” for Australia, but now work has to be done to make sure that we make the most of it.

“The fact that you have a piece of fibre optic cable coming out of the wall is only a start,” he says. Berners-Lee is making his first visit to Australia in 15 years.

Berners-Lee spoke in Sydney at the launch of the CSIRO’s $40 million Digital Productivity and Services Flagship research initiative, which is focused on helping the services sector get the full value from the NBN.

The program aims to help improve Australia’s sagging productivity levels and to change from being a a resource-focused nation to a country that delivers more efficient and innovative “digitally enhanced” services.

..... full story here: http://www.brw.com.au/p/tech-gadgets/nbn_brilliant_foundation_says_berners_LWyBHFJtdUoOi2M2QLpDZN

 

[medicowallet]

Here you go GG, some more high praise from the private sector for you:



..... full story here: http://www.brw.com.au/p/tech-gadgets/nbn_brilliant_foundation_says_berners_LWyBHFJtdUoOi2M2QLpDZN

Perhaps he should wait another 15 years, then possibly more than 10000 people will be able to access it.

 

[sydboy007]

Sydboy don't get too out of shape, Labor sold off plenty as well.
I bought into the first sale of Telstra and the opposition (Labor) said it was sold too cheap. So the next tranche was sold at $7.40, I'm still waiting for it to hit that again.
Labor sold CBA at $5 first issue, $10 second tranche, I fail to see your reasoning.
Should Howard have split Telstra up and recieved less, or was Keating remiss in selling CBA cheap?
Maybe someone made a fortune out of shares?

The issue I have is converting a public monopoly into a private one.

While the sale price would have been less, a sale of Telstra retail and wholesale would have been much better for consumers and business due to the increased levels of competition. A Telstra wholesale would have been similar to the current NBN. Both have a self interest to get the highest number of users on the network. What retail company gives them the user is of no relevance as each one will pay the same price.

Cut over to Telstra and the situation we have now I think anyone who has a bit of an understanding of how the industry works would agree that Telstra has abused its monopoly and we as consumers have suffered from higher prices. So the reality is the higher sale price has been at the cost of higher consumer prices.

Oh, and now Lord Bullturn is complaining the Govt is selling the 4G mobile spectrum at too high a price. Hmmm. AT&T just paid the equivalent of $1.80 per MHz per subscriber, so seems we're not being ripped off too much

 

[sails]

Our internet and phones and eftpos in Townsville have been out, something to do with a cable broken down south, all today.

Businesses would have lost millions in the North today.

The NBN will be similarly ransom to weather events.

We should have spent all the money on wireless.

But no, a brilliant idea by a couple of Labor appartchiks who have never worked a day in their lives in private enterprise, thought up over a vino in a business class seat, on the back of an envelope, trumps common sense.

gg

We lost our cable internet the last couple of days presumably to the bad weather. Our only access to the internet has been through mobile data on our phones using WIRELESS. It worked well.

It made me wonder if fibre optic will fare any better in these bad weather conditions. It seems not according to the two articles below. And yet isn't the plan for fibre optic cables to even replace our land lines? What's the point of that if they are going to just go down when we have heavy rain and people lose both internet and land lines? We are spending billions of dollars on this?

Telstra has flown techicians in to repair a flood-damaged fibre optic cable between Gladstone and Bundaberg in Queensland that it says "carries much of the state's communications needs".

Read more:
Telstra flies in crew to repair flood-damaged fibre

and previously in 2011:

Telstra has repaired a flood-damaged fibre optic cable on the NSW far south coast that cut landline access to the Triple Zero emergency network.

Read more:
Telstra fibre optic cable damaged in NSW storms

 

[Smurf1976]

Cut over to Telstra and the situation we have now I think anyone who has a bit of an understanding of how the industry works would agree that Telstra has abused its monopoly and we as consumers have suffered from higher prices. So the reality is the higher sale price has been at the cost of higher consumer prices.

Not only that, but Telstra have profit mined (run down) the copper network to the point that replacement would soon be required even if fibre and the NBN hadn't come along.

The NBN is as much about bailing out a failed privately owned communications network as it is about introducing new technology.

I'm all for private enterprise in its' place but it has a rotten track record when it comes to infrastructure things like electricity, water etc and the evidence is pointing in much the same direction with communications networks. The trouble is, these big corporations tend to focus on this year and next versus the 30 - 100 year life of major infrastructure assets. That leads directly toward running things into the ground so as to extract profits more quickly and ends with a government bail-out.

Communications - being bailed out now.

Electricity - been done once before and we're on the track toward a second go.

Transport - blatant anti-competitive conduct props up private roads in NSW. Meanwhile look what happened in Tas with rail - run down by Pacific National to the point that trains couldn't actually make it from one end of the state to the other without derailing.

As I said, I'm all for private enterprise but I just don't think the model fits well with long life cycle assets. It tends to be too short term focused and that doesn't end well.

 

[sydboy007]

Not only that, but Telstra have profit mined (run down) the copper network to the point that replacement would soon be required even if fibre and the NBN hadn't come along.

As I said, I'm all for private enterprise but I just don't think the model fits well with long life cycle assets. It tends to be too short term focused and that doesn't end well.

+1

Add in that sometimes it's better to have the Govt do it, even if less efficient than the private sector, because at the end of the day they only need to break even and fund maintenance, while the private sector needs to make a 15-20% return on equity else they wont invest.

That's where the NBN wins. Low cost of Govt debt, mandated to not make more that 7%, excess profits ploughed back into either extending the fibre foot print or reducing access fees.

I get annoyed the LNP keep bagging the NBN yet they have a policy that's not much more developed than a few slogans on a napkin. There's nothing to actually compare to the NBN, and as yet the FTTN network they propose is still uncertain as to being a core or non core promise.

If the LNP do go the way of FTTN I will love to see the reaction of their supporters as the devil in the detail becomes well known.

There's no acknowledgement by Bullturn that when a tech goes to move a customer pair to the node, that the records are so bad it is going to be trial and error to get a service working. he doesn't even provide an estimate to how much copper will be replaced with fibre once they start the rollout. he's not even been willing to say which areas currently getting fibre are going to end up on fixed wireless instead.

 

[NBNMyths]

We lost our cable internet the last couple of days presumably to the bad weather. Our only access to the internet has been through mobile data on our phones using WIRELESS. It worked well.

It made me wonder if fibre optic will fare any better in these bad weather conditions. It seems not according to the two articles below. And yet isn't the plan for fibre optic cables to even replace our land lines? What's the point of that if they are going to just go down when we have heavy rain and people lose both internet and land lines? We are spending billions of dollars on this?



Read more:
Telstra flies in crew to repair flood-damaged fibre

and previously in 2011:



Read more:
Telstra fibre optic cable damaged in NSW storms

Optical fibre is not generally damaged by water, unless that water washes away the soil covering it.

To repeat what I wrote above:

The optical fibres cables damaged in the stories above also carry the traffic for local wireless networks. The mobile network towers are joined to the rest of our phone/internet infrastructure by optical fibre cables. The same optical fibre cables that join telephone exchanges to the wider network. So when a transit cable serving an area is cut, then all phone/internet services (be they copper, NBN or wireless) will be cut, assuming they are from the same provider. (ie if Optus have their own transit cable, then their mobile might still work if a Telstra cable is damaged).

Mobile phone towers also require large amounts of electricity. Major towers have battery backups and/or generators, but if they cannot be refuelled or the tower base itself is flooded, then the network goes down.

And, once again, a cellular wireless network (no matter what the technology) is not physically capable of replacing the data load currently carried by our fixed networks. There is simply not enough bandwidth in the radio spectrum for this to occur, unless we plan rewriting the laws of physics. It's not a limitation you can fix by throwing money at it.

Urban and suburban areas require fixed-line networks for these technical reasons, and it is why there is no country on the planet where urban/suburban fixed line networks are being replaced with wireless.

In rural areas where population density is low, wireless systems can cope. And in such areas, the NBN uses wireless or satellite as part of the policy.

 

[shermerhorn]

Yeah, they are doing that alright, my tax just went up in the last week, anything that was in the kitty has been spent on setting fire to ceilings, putting illegal immigrants in military accommodation, partly building new classrooms, ensuring that more money is spent on the administration of both the health and education system than on the people doing the work, making donations to corruption in Indonesia and numerous jollies overseas to save the planet.

You cannot be serious !

Yeap, so no different from any previous govt, only they're giving people in remote areas a shot at joining the 21st century. You've either got a govt that thinks of the future but screws things up or one that sits on its hands and watches the place rot. Hang em, but don't hang em for the one thing they might be doing right. If we had a bit more forward thinking and a bit less bleating the country might be worth a jot.

 

[NBNMyths]

Yeap, so no different from any previous govt, only they're giving people in remote areas a shot at joining the 21st century. You've either got a govt that thinks of the future but screws things up or one that sits on its hands and watches the place rot. Hang em, but don't hang em for the one thing they might be doing right. If we had a bit more forward thinking and a bit less bleating the country might be worth a jot.

Well written.

 

[So_Cynical]

Yeap, so no different from any previous govt, only they're giving people in remote areas a shot at joining the 21st century. You've either got a govt that thinks of the future but screws things up or one that sits on its hands and watches the place rot. Hang em, but don't hang em for the one thing they might be doing right. If we had a bit more forward thinking and a bit less bleating the country might be worth a jot.

Cant help but wonder what mite of been had Howard stepped aside before APEC, with Costello backing a FTTN project with a 10 > 12 billion spend and passing Kyoto and promising at the least some backing for renewable's etc.

Perhaps It didn't have to end in tears.

 

[Bill M]

Yeap, so no different from any previous govt, only they're giving people in remote areas a shot at joining the 21st century. You've either got a govt that thinks of the future but screws things up or one that sits on its hands and watches the place rot. Hang em, but don't hang em for the one thing they might be doing right. If we had a bit more forward thinking and a bit less bleating the country might be worth a jot.

Occasionally I pass by this thread, have a read and move on but when a post like this comes all I can say is

I agree 100%

 

[sptrawler]

Cant help but wonder what mite of been had Howard stepped aside before APEC, with Costello backing a FTTN project with a 10 > 12 billion spend and passing Kyoto and promising at the least some backing for renewable's etc.

Perhaps It didn't have to end in tears.

Spot on, the splash of cash and monty python style running of infrastructure spending, really didn't have to happen.
It ended up as an excercise, in giving the teenage kids control of the family budget.
The result is as expected, internet gaming and social networking, is the winner.

 

[NBNMyths]

NBN Co have just announced a huge boost to the country/remote NBN wireless and satellite services, from a previous maximum of 12Mbps down, 1Mbps up to 25Mbps down and 5Mbps up.

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/nbn_to_boost_wireless_satellite_zEe93EbV2yN97sUZgKnYGN

NBN Co plans to increase the internet speeds offered to nearly a million homes and businesses in rural and remote Australia starting from June 2013.

Communications Minister Stephen Conroy announced the changes during an event in Bungendore on the outskirts of Canberra.

People connecting to the $37.4 billion national broadband network using wireless and satellite technologies will see a doubling of the base downloads speeds from 12 megabits per second to 25Mbps. Uploads will increase from 1Mbps to 5Mbps.

The new promised speed is faster than what most people in cities using copper-based broadband like ADSL currently experience.

NBN Co said it would sell the new services to telecommunications companies like Telstra and iiNet for the same price as its fibre optic services to provide a level playing field - $27 per month for the 25/5Mbps service and $24 for the 12/1Mbps service respectively.

“The price for customers for the 25/5 Mbps service on fixed wireless and satellite will be the same as that charged for 25/5 Mbps fibre services at around $40 per month,” Senator Conroy said.

In a statement NBN Co said customers using fixed wireless services would be the first to see their services increase from June 2013 onwards. Premises in the most remote parts of Australia using satellite systems will not see an increase until the company launches its hardware into space in 2015.

According to its own predictions, the total number of premises NBN Co expects to have connected using both satellite and wireless services by June 2013 across all of Australia is 38,000. But a large portion of those customers will remain on satellite speeds of up to 6Mbps until 2015.

NBN Co revealed last month that while 17,300 homes and businesses could now connect to the fixed wireless network, just 1000 had an activated connection.

Senator Conroy told the ABC on Wednesday morning that the upgraded speeds would be offered after tests conducted on the network.

 

[sydboy007]

Interesting article in the blatantly biased ABC online.

A common complaint about the NBN is that it costs too much, or is expensive.

If you look at the CAPEX of just Telstra and Optus over the last 10 years (similar time frame to the NBN rollout) well Telstra spent $36B inflation adjusted and Optus spent $11.4B.

Admittedly a lot of that spending would have been in the mobile space, but it does go to show that the NBN isn't ridiculously expensive.

 

[drsmith]

Rollout problems bubbling to the surface ?

http://www.afr.com/p/technology/nbn_won_detail_problems_MAh8SEs74d7JLkwdPL9PzI

 

[pixel]

There won't be any problem for either Government or Broadband service providers.
I requested clarification from the TIO about the legal obligations of an ISP. Answer: All we, the peepull, are entitled to is a landline telephone service. Neither mobile phones nor internet need work.

 

[sydboy007]

There won't be any problem for either Government or Broadband service providers.
I requested clarification from the TIO about the legal obligations of an ISP. Answer: All we, the peepull, are entitled to is a landline telephone service. Neither mobile phones nor internet need work.

View attachment 50977

While what the TIO has told you is correct, if you could show that the issue had not been resolved by your previous ISP, but since migrating to the new ISP the problems you had experienced had cleared, then at the very least they could probably get any penalties for early termination refunded.

The USO only specifies either 14.4 or 28.8 Kbs data dialup speeds.

I would also add the USO isn't really relevant to the NBN, but at least if you have an NBN service you ave a much greater claim to a certain speed level - may not be able to complain about peak time speeds, but if you could show out of peak times that you are not getting the speeds you pay for, then you'd have a good case with the TIO.

 

[tinhat]

Hey Pixel, you didn't do a very good job of blurring out iinet. Best wishes with your next ISP.

 

[sydboy007]

Finally getting a little clarity from the Bullturn

Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has confirmed that metropolitan areas of Australia in the HFC cable footprint of Telstra and Optus would not immediately receive the Coalition’s planned fibre to the node upgrade if it wins Government and did not commit to deploying FTTN infrastructure in those areas in the long-term.

The shadow minister said:

“An ideal scenario would be that you would – well what you would certainly do is you would not prioritise areas where HFC is,” said Turnbull. “You wouldn’t be overbuilding the HFC areas in the near term because they’re getting very good service already. The Government, however, is over-building the HFC areas.”

Considering HFC is not available to MDUs and Optus has in some areas stopped allowing new users to connect to their cable for internet, seems like large swathes of capital cities will not be getting an internet upgrade any time soon. So much for a faster rollout. So the LNP NoBN will now exclude approx 25% of households as that is the HFC footprint.

Will be very interesting to see how that goes down in voter land as understanding percolates through the no longer upgrading suburbs. It also seems that current NoBN policy has no intention to upgrade internet access in HFC areas.