NBN Rollout Scrapped

[sails]

It will be interesting to see how long it takes, how much it ultimately costs and even if it's ever completed.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/busines...ill-prove-costly/story-e6frfig6-1226067514549

This is what really gets under my skin with both "climate change" and NBN theorists. They all promote their "science" with seeming little thought to practicality. They don't seem to care whether or not Australia can afford a carbon tax or a NBN.

We would all like to have expensive things, but just because we can reason they are good, doesn't mean that we can blow the budget at the expense of other essentials required for every day life.

If the NBN was a fraction of the cost, I don't think there would be too many objections. I believe the major objection is that Australia is falling deeper and deeper into debt every day and this is not the time to be spending an extraordinary amount of funds on a project with such a massive price tag.

 

[DB008]

It will be interesting to see how long it takes, how much it ultimately costs and even if it's ever completed.

Here Here!

Maybe the Government should have launched 10 communication satellites at 200-300 million a pop would have been cheaper and still provided the same coverage?

 

[medicowallet]

This is what really gets under my skin with both "climate change" and NBN theorists. They all promote their "science" with seeming little thought to practicality. They don't seem to care whether or not Australia can afford a carbon tax or a NBN.

We would all like to have expensive things, but just because we can reason they are good, doesn't mean that we can blow the budget at the expense of other essentials required for every day life.

If the NBN was a fraction of the cost, I don't think there would be too many objections. I believe the major objection is that Australia is falling deeper and deeper into debt every day and this is not the time to be spending an extraordinary amount of funds on a project with such a massive price tag.

What gets me is that there is no way that productivity will ever be increased to warrant a $50 billion pricetag.

I know multitudes of small business owners, none of which require anything greater than what they currently have.

I know many uni students, who are looking forward to better gaming pings and faster piracy.


All I can see from NBN is consumption, no productivity gains, as any decent sized business already has fast internet.

Stupid government, sold this to the stupid populace.

 

[IFocus]

It will be interesting to see how long it takes, how much it ultimately costs and even if it's ever completed.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/busines...ill-prove-costly/story-e6frfig6-1226067514549

The realities for a project this size and complexity is that it is unlikely to be on time and wont be on cost. Time and cost will be politicized to death but success engineering wise is about it working, being maintainable and low fault rate.

Before all anti Gov what ever's start squawking like........well a bunch of Galah’s go look at the numbers and time around building the Sydney opera House.

From what I have seen so far the NBN Co seem quite competent

 

[sails]

The realities for a project this size and complexity is that it is unlikely to be on time and wont be on cost. Time and cost will be politicized to death but success engineering wise is about it working, being maintainable and low fault rate.

Before all anti Gov what ever's start squawking like........well a bunch of Galah’s go look at the numbers and time around building the Sydney opera House.

From what I have seen so far the NBN Co seem quite competent

Maybe for a fiscally responsible government, but with this government with it's spirraling debt and multitude of other seemingly badly managed policies, it leaves one with many reseverations as to their ability to manage such large infrastructure with such a massive price tag.

 

[NBNMyths]

Here Here!

Maybe the Government should have launched 10 communication satellites at 200-300 million a pop would have been cheaper and still provided the same coverage?

Bu then it wouldn't, would it? The NBN already includes 2 state-of-the-art Ka band satellites at $500 million each. These have a total capacity of 80Gbps each (60 down, 20 up).

So launching 10 would cost $5bn, and give a total capacity for the country of 600Gbps download.

There are 10 million premises in Australia, so that would be an average 0.06Mbps each, assuming perfect conditions and zero loss.

Quick, someone suggest it to Andy and Alan. They're probably silly enough to run with it.

 

[DB008]

Stupider things have been suggested NBNMyths, ie, free set top boxes for inflated prices.

 

[JTLP]

Is NBNMyths one of the government's champions?

This guy is a little too 'clued' in about this bumbling mess to be a regular joe.

Oh geez - I can't wait for Australia to steam ahead with this one!

 

[IFocus]

Maybe for a fiscally responsible government, but with this government with it's spirraling debt and multitude of other seemingly badly managed policies, it leaves one with many reseverations as to their ability to manage such large infrastructure with such a massive price tag.

Sails in the end it will be down to the NBN Co to manage the project and from what I have seen they do have some quality people.

 

[IFocus]

Is NBNMyths one of the government's champions?

This guy is a little too 'clued' in about this bumbling mess to be a regular joe.

Oh geez - I can't wait for Australia to steam ahead with this one!

Personally I prefer opinions, vague negative comments and hearsay rumors from the Herald Sun and Bolt.

Facts and details who needs them...............

 

[DB008]

Bu then it wouldn't, would it? The NBN already includes 2 state-of-the-art Ka band satellites at $500 million each. These have a total capacity of 80Gbps each (60 down, 20 up).

So launching 10 would cost $5bn, and give a total capacity for the country of 600Gbps download.

Launch 20 for $10 Billion, still build NBN - but in areas where it needs to be built, not in my street where l have ADSL2+ already.

Advances in technology also mean that by the time the NBN is complete, Ka-Band Sats will be superseded by Q/V Band Sats?

White Paper #8-701 -Satellite Spectrum - An Overview

I think that a hybrid approach might have been the way to go. Not to mention that Australia could have got it's foot in the door in relation to the space side of things. At the moment, we are nothing.

I guess, as with all politicians, they have no accountability. If they stuff it up, they get voted out and someone else has to clean up their mess.

 

[JTLP]

Personally I prefer opinions, vague negative comments and hearsay rumors from the Herald Sun and Bolt.

Facts and details who needs them...............

IFocus I rarely weigh into these political debates as everyone has them covered (as well as questions to you)...but seriously...you would have to be one of the most die-hard/one-eyed/would run over their own grandmother - Labor supporters i've ever witnessed.

You can simply not accept that this minority government is a shambles and has done virtually nothing right. If they were all about prosperity and Australia moving forward - they would have responsibly managed the massive inflows coming in via our very favourable lucky land and made "real changes" to ensure this country can thrive once the minerals are gone/China buys us out...

The way they conduct themselves and draft legislations beggars belief. The 'resource rent' tax and carbon tax are 2 prime examples of Labor shooting for the moon and landing nowhere near the stars...rather their 'rocket' went backwards. Can you agree on these points? You don't have to say they were bad ideas (in which they are but that's my opinion) - can you agree they have been grossly mismanaged?

Julia has asked you numerous questions in which you have conveniently side-stepped...no doubt you will do the same to mine...thus confirming you know you're caught out...

 

[DB008]

Is NBNMyths one of the government's champions?

This guy is a little too 'clued' in about this bumbling mess to be a regular joe.

BINGO!

NBNMyths is a person who knows way too much for the average Joe, and is, believe it or not, connected to the Government in regards to this project somehow.


Who the f**k knows about Ka-Band Satellites; upload an download speeds, and the rest.....

Give me a break, NBNMyths is definitely in Conroy's circle, might even be Conroy himself? How was the ski trip in the US with Stokes mate? LOL

Stephen Conroy's skiing freebie

 

[NBNMyths]

Is NBNMyths one of the government's champions?

This guy is a little too 'clued' in about this bumbling mess to be a regular joe.

Oh geez - I can't wait for Australia to steam ahead with this one!

I'd be quite happy to be one of the "champion", but I'm not high-profile enough unfortunately.

As for my info, it's all in the public domain. The satellite specs, for example, are in the NBN business case.

 

[NBNMyths]

BINGO!

NBNMyths is a person who knows way too much for the average Joe, and is, believe it or not, connected to the Government in regards to this project somehow.


Who the f**k knows about Ka-Band Satellites; upload an download speeds, and the rest.....

Give me a break, NBNMyths is definitely in Conroy's circle, might even be Conroy himself? How was the ski trip in the US with Stokes mate? LOL

If only you blokes knew who I really am and what I do for a crust!...

But I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't (and have never) worked for the Fed Govt, NBN Co, any telco or any IT company. Nor do I know anyone who does. Nor do I own any shares in any related company, and nor does anyone I know. The site admin can verify my IP address for all of these posts, if they so desire.

Who knows about the NBN satellite specs? Well, anyone who has bothered to follow the NBN information from reliable sources.

Specs for the satellites are listed on page 71 of the NBN corporate plan. There is a plethora of info on the NBN satellites in numerous news articles.

Everything I have posted in this forum is available in the public domain, because that's where I got it all from. It's not hard.

 

[sails]

Sails in the end it will be down to the NBN Co to manage the project and from what I have seen they do have some quality people.

IFocus, we can only hope so. This country is going deeper into debt and anything the Gillard government seems to touch seems to be costly.

I still think the price tag seems more than Australia can afford at this point in time.

 

[medicowallet]

If only you blokes knew who I really am and what I do for a crust!...

But I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I don't (and have never) worked for the Fed Govt, NBN Co, any telco or any IT company. Nor do I know anyone who does. Nor do I own any shares in any related company, and nor does anyone I know. The site admin can verify my IP address for all of these posts, if they so desire.

Who knows about the NBN satellite specs? Well, anyone who has bothered to follow the NBN information from reliable sources.

Specs for the satellites are listed on page 71 of the NBN corporate plan. There is a plethora of info on the NBN satellites in numerous news articles.

Everything I have posted in this forum is available in the public domain, because that's where I got it all from. It's not hard.

not for the fed govt???

How about state govt? any other form of government, unions etc.

You are an ALP lackey.

 

[bellenuit]

There are 10 million premises in Australia, so that would be an average 0.06Mbps each, assuming perfect conditions and zero loss.

Gee NBNMyths. Is one in every two people; men, women and children; online simultaneously in your modelling? And those online are actually interacting 100% of the time with the internet? No pauses to read the screen or to compose responses or to just be doing something else while logged on?

Perhaps if your modelling was a bit more realistic you wouldn't need such an expensive system as the NBN.

 

[NBNMyths]

What gets me is that there is no way that productivity will ever be increased to warrant a $50 billion pricetag.

I know multitudes of small business owners, none of which require anything greater than what they currently have.

I know many uni students, who are looking forward to better gaming pings and faster piracy.


All I can see from NBN is consumption, no productivity gains, as any decent sized business already has fast internet.

Stupid government, sold this to the stupid populace.

All I can say, as a small business owner, is that you mustn't know very many if you think all is hunky-dory with internet speeds in Australia.

And the statement that "any decent sized business already has fast internet" is clear evidence that you should get out more. Apart from the fact it isn't true, you should also look at the cost of getting "fast internet" when you want it. Given its pathetically slow upload speeds, ADSL2+ is completely useless for any digital media-based business, so that leaves cable or fibre. Cable is only available to about 20% of the population. To give you an example for fibre, the quote I received for a fibre connection for me was $19,500 for the connection, and $4,000 per month for a 100Mbps CIR. I'm about 2km from a telephone exchange in a outer suburban area of Sydney. Now I have no doubt that many medium to large businesses are paying that now. Imagine the savings if that business could get a free connection, and pay maybe $300 a month for a high-end NBN connection.

All that aside, given that over the last 15 years typical internet speeds in Australia have increased by about 10,000 times, how do you think those people happy with ADSL2+ now will feel about it in another 15 years? How do you think business will move to the cloud, when average upload speeds in Australia are only 1Mbps?

The only way to substantially improve internet speeds is to roll out new infrastructure to replace the copper, whether it be with fibre of HFC cable. And the cost of doing either is similar. Even a stop-gap like FTTN would cost a good $15-20bn, plus whatever we'd have to pay to Telstra. So if (as anyone looking objectively would agree) we will certainly need a faster network within the next 10-15 years, what is a better way of getting there? The private sector has demonstrated that it's not interested. They have done no HFC for a decade or more, no fibre, no FTTN, no VDSL2.....

----

You think the NBN could never pay for itself through productivity etc? Well, off the top of my head, we have a GDP of $1.2 Trillion.

Even taking your inflated NBN figure of $50bn (the capex is actually 36), and given a minimum life of 50 years, that amounts to 0.1% of GDP pa in present dollar terms.

You really don't think that a world-class broadband network could add $1bn (0.1%) pa to our economy across the country?

A study into superfast broadband in Seattle found that a network in that city alone would result in economic benefits of US$1bn pa for the city.

 

[NBNMyths]

Gee NBNMyths. Is one in every two people; men, women and children; online simultaneously in your modelling? And those online are actually interacting 100% of the time with the internet? No pauses to read the screen or to compose responses or to just be doing something else while logged on?

Perhaps if your modelling was a bit more realistic you wouldn't need such an expensive system as the NBN.

You want an optimistic figure? OK, let's say only 1% of Australians are online at the same time. Including those at work. That would be an average speed of 4Mbps each from the 10 satellites.

So you think spending $5bn to deliver satellites enabling a speed of about half what we can currently get (on average), is a good idea?