Mutiny at HotCopper

Joe Blow said:

I definitely don't have a problem with the off topic chat. I think it adds a lot of character to ASF and generates some great discussions. I'd just like to see some more stock chat. It doesn't have to be discussion of particular stocks either, it can just be general market chat. Here's the 2012 General ASX Market Discussion thread that so far has only one post. I'd love to see it revived and some general market discussion generated. Anyone reading this prepared to run with it?

interesting idea and great food for thought. Thanks!

Click to expand...

..............................................................................

I am prepared to run with it....but with qualifications......I no longer hold much stock......for reasons I will state later...I am predominately holding property and cash.....for the following reasons.....

I like to have total control over my investments....
I dont trust anyone out there today.....to look after my assets...except myself.....I am the only person I can trust to do the right thing...hence property.....the cash is purely a safeguard...for whatever is required to protect my interests....and waiting to pounce on any investment, that attracts my eye

I dont like cash as an investment,,,, its future is basically dependent on others, namely the bankers and the govnuts, with their fudged CPI figures..
also the devaluation of the dollar, by inflation......by the same banks, and govnuts

Did you know, the value of the dollar has been devalued by over 95% in the last 100 years....that is almost 1% a year, on average....

In the last 20 or so years, the devaluation has increased to, on average 10% per annum. this is soley due to inflation, credit, and the rampant printing of valueless paper money by various govnuts.
You may well protest and state, the CPI is currently at 3% or lower, so inflation is only at the lower rate of 3%.

That is not the case....the figure of on average 10%, is fudged to a lower figure......because so many wages,superannuation and other costs are dependent on the CPI figure , for their growth.
Most wages and super increases are tied to the CPI figure, for any increases. The govnut employees rely on those figures...they are the biggest workforce. So to reduce the costs, their employers, fudge the figures, in order to pay a lower increase.

As for HC, they have done a great job, they have brought a community together. It is not only stocks that the members are interested in, members are also interested in other topics, including health, lifestyle interests, music, politics, property, science, cooking and recipes, and a variety of different interests, they have introduced forums to cater for all those other external interests.

Keep the family together, give them what they want. keep it all in house, if you get the drift, or know what I mean.

I think HC has a more vibrant and active community, compared to ASF, and probably more active members, with a larger membership. This is due to a variety of interests allowed to the members....the stocks are the most active threads. But with that comes, more moderators, and the education of moderators, to be more at ' arms length', to not use their own personal prejudice, when moderating members posts.

I found at ASF, that some moderators, and members, were very prejudiced, and antangonistic, their views were
tantamount to antaganising new members.....and so , faced with a prejudiced responses from those in charge, they in fact turned away a host of new members..

I must admit, I appreciated, the empathy and caring nature of the majority of ASF members, who contributed to my recent thread, in relation to the death of my daughter. I will remember their kind thougths, forever in my heart. Each and everyone of those members are important people, as far as I am concerned, and although I do not know them personallly, I can recognise them, from their blogs. thank you.

kincella said:

..............................................................................



I think HC has a more vibrant and active community, compared to ASF, and probably more active members, with a larger membership. This is due to a variety of interests allowed to the members....the stocks are the most active threads. But with that comes, more moderators, and the education of moderators, to be more at ' arms length', to not use their own personal prejudice, when moderating members posts.

I found at ASF, that some moderators, and members, were very prejudiced, and antangonistic, their views were
tantamount to antaganising new members.....and so , faced with a prejudiced responses from those in charge, they in fact turned away a host of new members..

I must admit, I appreciated, the empathy and caring nature of the majority of ASF members, who contributed to my recent thread, in relation to the death of my daughter. I will remember their kind thougths, forever in my heart. Each and everyone of those members are important people, as far as I am concerned, and although I do not know them personallly, I can recognise them, from their blogs. thank you.

Click to expand...

I cannot agree with your comments on HC diverse interest and moderators.

HC moderators are mechanistic and terrified of another ASIC rap on the knuckles.

And many posters on HC are knuckleheads, broke sad sacks with no holdings from my viewing of HC.

It seems to be a sheltered workshop for intense obsessive fundamentalists.

I prefer the eclectic opinions of ASF.

Each to his own, and I wish you well for the future kincella.

gg

Garpal Gumnut said:

I cannot agree with your comments on HC diverse interest and moderators.

HC moderators are mechanistic and terrified of another ASIC rap on the knuckles.

And many posters on HC are knuckleheads, broke sad sacks with no holdings from my viewing of HC.

It seems to be a sheltered workshop for intense obsessive fundamentalists.

I prefer the eclectic opinions of ASF.

Each to his own, and I wish you well for the future kincella.

gg

Click to expand...

Just came across this and see things quite differently.

If anything both forums have more than their fair share of naive folk, many seemingly unemployed or work from home.

Fact is Hot Copper has a hell of lot more members, some of them knowledgable, others very persistent and a lot of silly, naive posts. You can cut through the chaff. More importantly for me, is most are active small cap investors and traders so there is much more coverage on the small caps. I can get feedback for my blue chips by turning on Sky Business or reading my analyst's briefings, but HC has given me many tips and on balance I am still way ahead.

I don't always agree with the moderators, but doesn't upset me overly. They're only doing what they think they need to do and in the scheme of things have little impact on the volume or quality of posts. Most of the time they pick up on rude posts, unsubstantiated ones and yes, more recently possibly defamatory. Again bear in mind there are many naive posters who love to rant about management's decisions, their pay levels and the like.

Personally, have little interest in the general forums, haven't time or inclination. Occasionally will post when the right wingers and/or religious zealots get going, but don't expect to change anyone's views. So not a big drawcard for me. Don't see it as much of community, especially when everyone is using pseudonyms.

My suggestion would be to accent the stock forum more, do whatever you can to attract more posts to this area, unless intent is to keep ASF as a smaller "elitist" type group. Hot Copper flourishes because of the sheer volume of information sharing on almost every stock on the ASX.

Btw, I do miss Hangseng on HC and understand his frustrations. Needs to bite his tongue more, or as he has decided, move along.

I got to agree somewhat with the above post..
As a long term HC user.. With a few self inflicted sabbaticals, it has proven itself a worth while site
to tune into and catch the news on the latest pumps and dumps..
If it's the small caps you are after in the Aus market then hands down its one of the better places to get the dirt..

I know I will ruffle a few furthers of some the long term users on this site with these comments..
But one of the reasons you see me here and posting is the convenience of having it linked into the mobile apps..
For those that know me on HC, I am also O/S, in China working in petrol chemicals industry, and thus a lot of time on the road.

As to grammatical errors, Cough.. Cough.. Must be some school teachers in the crowd..
As when you are using mobile devices to type out your thoughts.. Sometimes you are just going to get mistakes..
Anyway on to the best part of what I see here.. Once again.. More mobile devices, and more people wanting to access a stock discussion site on the fly..
as an example in the tech world XDA is king as the format is ripe to attract people..
As yet I haven't posted on any stocks but are a reader and will have a jump in when the time is right..
Also I like the ability to edit your posts.. Thus proof read and change if it's too out of wack, and the times right..

Over the years I have personally meet with a number of people out of sites like HC and the old irc daytraders channel and as anything in life
You either will contact them again if you are comfortable with the the relationship or you won't.. Thus I would term these stayers as value added contacts that I would have never meet in my life otherwise.. And believe me I have been through a few brokers and accountants in my time that are not in my 'to' contact list anymore..

Anyway.. I hope to add value here to this site when I can and as time permits.. Happy bantering all..


Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

I sometimes browse hotcopper re stocks that I own due to as Joe has pointed out, there is little specific stock chat on ASF. Which is dissapointing as the level of knowledge on ASF is obviously high.

However at times threads are dominated by rampers of both persuasions, and the motives and identities seem at times interesting to say the least.

Anyway I note in the MYG thread that a moderator is pleading for posters to be more aware of comments made as it appears the companies lawyers are not impressed. In fact possibly seeking a court order to access posters identities.

Share mkt blogs can strongly influence investors, especially new ones.

I believe there was a recent article on this in the Syd Morn Herald.

Certainly something of interest to all posters on all sites.

For your info

Crom

Crom said:

as Joe has pointed out, there is little specific stock chat on ASF. Which is dissapointing as the level of knowledge on ASF is obviously high.

Click to expand...

Agreed. At times I have tried to encourage more stock specific chat, and there have been moments when we have seen a burst of activity - most notably when springhill is posting - but at the moment there does seem to be a bit of lull.

All it will take for things to pick up a little is for everyone to post in the threads of stocks that they follow when there is new information or analysis to share. In turn, many of those posts will generate even more discussion and we will build up some momentum as the level of posting in stock threads increases.

If everyone can contribute where they could, I would be very appreciative.

Crom said:

I sometimes browse hotcopper re stocks that I own due to as Joe has pointed out, there is little specific stock chat on ASF. Which is dissapointing as the level of knowledge on ASF is obviously high.

However at times threads are dominated by rampers of both persuasions, and the motives and identities seem at times interesting to say the least.

Anyway I note in the MYG thread that a moderator is pleading for posters to be more aware of comments made as it appears the companies lawyers are not impressed. In fact possibly seeking a court order to access posters identities.

Share mkt blogs can strongly influence investors, especially new ones.

I believe there was a recent article on this in the Syd Morn Herald.

Certainly something of interest to all posters on all sites.

For your info

Crom

Click to expand...

I'm sure there are traders/investors on HC who do well with fundamental analysis, but I find that sort of approach very hard. Company boards in general don't give two hoots about shareholders. And if you're dealing with small mining companies, many of the characters in charge are really questionable in their honesty. Also, a lot of small companies have poor public relations (eg. delayed news), which can create uncertainty and that can hurt share price. So I can't afford to trust a lot of the things I hear from most small-to-medium sized companies (or from HC posters, even though some are very cluey). And since small co.s are the ones that tend to move, I have to use a technical approach.

If I was to use FA, I'd really want to be able to meet the guys in charge face to face. A five minute interview and a stroll around HQ could tell you so much. Some people do get such access, like the guys from Sliptream and co., but then can I trust that they are reading the board correctly.... or are they being led up the garden path? And then what if the market decides to go into a 3 year bear phase?

Joe Blow said:

Agreed. At times I have tried to encourage more stock specific chat, and there have been moments when we have seen a burst of activity - most notably when springhill is posting - but at the moment there does seem to be a bit of lull.

All it will take for things to pick up a little is for everyone to post in the threads of stocks that they follow when there is new information or analysis to share. In turn, many of those posts will generate even more discussion and we will build up some momentum as the level of posting in stock threads increases.

If everyone can contribute where they could, I would be very appreciative.

Click to expand...

I agree that this site would be much better if the stock specific threads were posted in more frequently. The quality of posters here is high, I can't see ramping being a problem here.

Having said that, I do try (see my efforts in EGP) but no one ever replies.

Tyler Durden said:

Having said that, I do try (see my efforts in EGP) but no one ever replies.

Click to expand...

OK, I'll attempt to offer a reason why.
I have never heard of EGP until I read your post, tyler, so have had a quick look at it.
What I see is an obscure stock in a downtrend since May this year.
This is not offset by a decent yield which is quoted at just 1.9% with no franking.
Total shareholder return is quoted for one year only at just 0.7%.

I cannot see why anyone would be interested in it on this basis. There might be some amazing fundamentals, however, of which I am unaware.

So rather than commenting thus which would perhaps be seen as being uber critical or throwing cold water on what you or others see as some outstanding opportunity, I'd prefer not to comment at all.

This is the case for most of the stock threads I ever actually take a look at, with the exception of some of the bigger companies for which Nulla Nulla frequently posts a chart accompanied by an intelligent comment.

Julia said:

OK, I'll attempt to offer a reason why.
I have never heard of EGP until I read your post, tyler, so have had a quick look at it.
What I see is an obscure stock in a downtrend since May this year.
This is not offset by a decent yield which is quoted at just 1.9% with no franking.
Total shareholder return is quoted for one year only at just 0.7%.

I cannot see why anyone would be interested in it on this basis. There might be some amazing fundamentals, however, of which I am unaware.

So rather than commenting thus which would perhaps be seen as being uber critical or throwing cold water on what you or others see as some outstanding opportunity, I'd prefer not to comment at all.

This is the case for most of the stock threads I ever actually take a look at, with the exception of some of the bigger companies for which Nulla Nulla frequently posts a chart accompanied by an intelligent comment.

Click to expand...

Hi Julia, thanks for looking into it and posting your thoughts.

I'm not after solely positive thoughts (that's HC), I would've been happy for any thoughts

Tyler Durden said:

Hi Julia, thanks for looking into it and posting your thoughts.

I'm not after solely positive thoughts (that's HC), I would've been happy for any thoughts

Click to expand...

Hey Tyler

I've read your posts on EGP and maybe you don't get a response because you are really just cut and pasting news items. If you did a bit of TA or FA you might get the discussion fired up. From what I've seen, the threads with the most discussion are where people give an opinion of why they think something is good or bad.

McLovin said:

Hey Tyler

I've read your posts on EGP and maybe you don't get a response because you are really just cut and pasting news items. If you did a bit of TA or FA you might get the discussion fired up. From what I've seen, the threads with the most discussion are where people give an opinion of why they think something is good or bad.

Click to expand...

+ 1

McLovin said:

Hey Tyler

I've read your posts on EGP and maybe you don't get a response because you are really just cut and pasting news items. If you did a bit of TA or FA you might get the discussion fired up. From what I've seen, the threads with the most discussion are where people give an opinion of why they think something is good or bad.

Click to expand...

You have a point, however, I think if I posted news items on HC there would be at least a few responses to it.

Tyler Durden said:

You have a point, however, I think if I posted news items on HC there would be at least a few responses to it.

Click to expand...

Perhaps, but I think generally you get a better quality response on here than HC (although there are some great posters on HC). If you post news items then you'll just get a commentary about the news. If it's in the newspaper then chances are everyone knows about it anyway.

Joe Blow said:

Agreed. At times I have tried to encourage more stock specific chat, and there have been moments when we have seen a burst of activity - most notably when springhill is posting - but at the moment there does seem to be a bit of lull.

All it will take for things to pick up a little is for everyone to post in the threads of stocks that they follow when there is new information or analysis to share. In turn, many of those posts will generate even more discussion and we will build up some momentum as the level of posting in stock threads increases.

If everyone can contribute where they could, I would be very appreciative.

Click to expand...

Sorry Joe, work has put me out of regular posting for a while to come, still keeping an eye on things but just no time to assess new potential specs.
Hopefully will be back regularly soon.

Man...has anybody been over to HC lately? They've completely revamped the site. It's become quite slow/jerky and the layout isn't very easy on the eye. Even the very useful option of following posters by punching their name into the search box has disappeared!

Maybe they will have a mutiny and ASF will pick up

JTLP said:

Man...has anybody been over to HC lately? They've completely revamped the site. It's become quite slow/jerky and the layout isn't very easy on the eye. Even the very useful option of following posters by punching their name into the search box has disappeared!

Maybe they will have a mutiny and ASF will pick up

Click to expand...

i have always preferred ASF.

HC has made a "jumping the shark" change, though I suspect they had to.

Encourage your friends to follow stocks on ASF.

But we need to have less sad sacks worrying about dying , their hearts, and wearing lycra on their sad daily bike trips, on ASF.

Let's have some robust discussion on ASF on the stocks that matter, BHP.RIO, NAB,WBC,LEI,IVC, instead of the granny stocks on HC.

gg

JTLP said:

Man...has anybody been over to HC lately? They've completely revamped the site. It's become quite slow/jerky and the layout isn't very easy on the eye. Even the very useful option of following posters by punching their name into the search box has disappeared!

Maybe they will have a mutiny and ASF will pick up

Click to expand...

Completely unable to gain access yesterday. I guess not unexpected that there will be some teething problems in moving to their new format.

I have always hated HC's layout, and it was enough to keep me away for a long time, but they have a lot of discussion and eventually I gave in and got used to their system. Why they would take a terrible layout and replace it with something far worse is beyond me. Why such a hideous system is so popular is also puzzling.

Hot Copper always seems to me, to be a group of people, trying frantically to justify their stock choices.