Management of employees

[Smurf1976]

At work I supervise a small group of people in a highly specialised field (we are the only people in the state who do this type of work). I am the supervisor of this group and not the manager of the company.

Whilst I am certainly not a professional manager (my own background being technical), historically I have done this job in a manner which seems to have impressed both senior management (they handed me a pay rise without me even mentioning it as an issue so they are presumably happy) and most employees most of the time.

But a persistent problem keeps coming up with one individual. At any given time, they always seem to have someone as a "target" and work to convince others as to how bad this individual really is. This has gone on for 10 years or so (noting that I have only been the supervisor since this year) and most in the group have at some point been the target. Right now, I'm the target but if I wasn't then someone else would be.

Personally, I see it as whinging since the issues raised by them are almost always of a relatively minor nature of the kind that most people would have with colleagues from time to time. If I had such an issue with someone then I would simply approach them (in private) and discuss the matter openly. Odds are they didn't even realise they were doing it.

But not with this person. They raise, for example, an issue about safety. So I devote resources to fixing the problem to the point of brining in (incredibly expensive) outside expertise. But then they say the outside expert isn't 100% safe, says one thing whilst doing another and can't be trusted. So I meet with the hired expert, discuss the problem and convince them that they had better do the job properly or we'll get someone else and that I will be monitoring their performance.

Problem fixed and all seem to be happy with the result. "Well done, thanks" say the other workers. The problem is fixed. But the problem individual still isn't happy - now I'm some nasty, horrible person for threatening the external contractor with loss of future work if they don't do it properly.

Just can't win... Don't fix the problem and I'm in the wrong for not looking after the workers. Do fix the problem and I'm in the wrong for not looking after the contractor (who is supposedly dishonest etc according the the problem individual). Not only that, but I'm wrong if people aren't safe but I'm also wrong for doing a trial of methods to resolve the issue. Can't win either way it seems.

All the consultants we have used, internal experts from other sections of the organisation, the union and even the government safety regulators say I've done everything reasonable to make sure things are safe and that this goes well beyond minimum legal requirements for safety.

But safety is just an example. We went through the exact same problems with pay. Don't do anything and I'm a "company man", try to do something and I'm to blame for that too. They're not happy with people doing the same work being paid different rates but when I try to fix that I'm to blame for trying to get a larger % rise for the lower paid ones than the higher paid ones so as to fix their original complaint. Just can not win.

Don't tell this person what's going on and they complain about secrecy. Tell them what's going on and they say, in a sarcastic voice, "we do know what we're doing you know". Just can't win either way.

Now, I don't have the authority to sack this individual without proving they've actually done something wrong (and simply complaining doesn't really meet the company criteria for dismissal).

Anyone have any advice as to what to do about this? I want to actually fix the problem with this person rather than simply getting them to pick another target (either working for us or somewhere else).

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

At work I supervise a small group of people in a highly specialised field (we are the only people in the state who do this type of work). I am the supervisor of this group and not the manager of the company.

Whilst I am certainly not a professional manager (my own background being technical), historically I have done this job in a manner which seems to have impressed both senior management (they handed me a pay rise without me even mentioning it as an issue so they are presumably happy) and most employees most of the time.

But a persistent problem keeps coming up with one individual. At any given time, they always seem to have someone as a "target" and work to convince others as to how bad this individual really is. This has gone on for 10 years or so (noting that I have only been the supervisor since this year) and most in the group have at some point been the target. Right now, I'm the target but if I wasn't then someone else would be.

Personally, I see it as whinging since the issues raised by them are almost always of a relatively minor nature of the kind that most people would have with colleagues from time to time. If I had such an issue with someone then I would simply approach them (in private) and discuss the matter openly. Odds are they didn't even realise they were doing it.

But not with this person. They raise, for example, an issue about safety. So I devote resources to fixing the problem to the point of brining in (incredibly expensive) outside expertise. But then they say the outside expert isn't 100% safe, says one thing whilst doing another and can't be trusted. So I meet with the hired expert, discuss the problem and convince them that they had better do the job properly or we'll get someone else and that I will be monitoring their performance.

Problem fixed and all seem to be happy with the result. "Well done, thanks" say the other workers. The problem is fixed. But the problem individual still isn't happy - now I'm some nasty, horrible person for threatening the external contractor with loss of future work if they don't do it properly.

Just can't win... Don't fix the problem and I'm in the wrong for not looking after the workers. Do fix the problem and I'm in the wrong for not looking after the contractor (who is supposedly dishonest etc according the the problem individual). Not only that, but I'm wrong if people aren't safe but I'm also wrong for doing a trial of methods to resolve the issue. Can't win either way it seems.

All the consultants we have used, internal experts from other sections of the organisation, the union and even the government safety regulators say I've done everything reasonable to make sure things are safe and that this goes well beyond minimum legal requirements for safety.

But safety is just an example. We went through the exact same problems with pay. Don't do anything and I'm a "company man", try to do something and I'm to blame for that too. They're not happy with people doing the same work being paid different rates but when I try to fix that I'm to blame for trying to get a larger % rise for the lower paid ones than the higher paid ones so as to fix their original complaint. Just can not win.

Don't tell this person what's going on and they complain about secrecy. Tell them what's going on and they say, in a sarcastic voice, "we do know what we're doing you know". Just can't win either way.

Now, I don't have the authority to sack this individual without proving they've actually done something wrong (and simply complaining doesn't really meet the company criteria for dismissal).

Anyone have any advice as to what to do about this? I want to actually fix the problem with this person rather than simply getting them to pick another target (either working for us or somewhere else).

Workplace culture can be terrible at times. Take the fight to the person and take them on head on. This doesn't have to be in an unfriendly way.

 

[CanOz]

With 13 years experience in supervising and managing large teams i see it that you have two options that i would consider worthwhile:

1.) as Snake said take the person on, tell them how you feel, that nothing you do as a supervisor is ever enough for them etc. But in the end, put them in their place, they're not responsible and have no authority what so ever. You appreciate thier input, but hope that they could be more constructive and less destructive to the team.

2.) a longer term solution is to build your team, through whatever team building exercises you like or feel appropriate for your business. As you build the team you need to highlight others to take the role model position away from the negative role model. This is a long process and takes a lot of effort. You need to put together a strategy for this. You must undermine them and gradually work on diminishing their credibility until the point where you have a cohesive team, and one individual that feels so out of place that they leave on their own.

Cheers,

 

[Julia]

Smurf

This type can be very destructive in the workplace. Usually their behaviour arises from a fundamental sense of insecurity within themselves.

Good suggestions so far.

To extend on Snake's suggestion, how about taking this bloke for lunch or a beer and simply tell him how you are feeling. Much as you've told us.
Don't criticise him or say "you're causing ......." etc. Just explain that as supervisor, you are finding his attitude puzzling and would like to understand what the underlying problem is. e.g. perhaps he has personal worries and simply doesn't want to be at work, all sorts of things could be going on.

I've sometimes found that, by discovering what is underlying the behaviour and offering support about whatever that problem is, the person's whole attitude has changed.

If that is fruitless, mediation is an alternative, as is the introduction of a competent industrial psychologist.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Julia

 

[juddy]

Good suggestions guys, but if all else fails Smurf you could try the Al Capone (De Niro) 'teamwork' talk as in The Untouchables.

 

[IFocus]

Hi Smurf

Snake summed it up, work place cultures, have a group of people and there will be almost certainly some one who is dysfunctional oh and its some ones else fault.
Canaussieuck offers some good advice particularly the 1st point

Your experience is identical to my own people management is the hardest

The issue is clearly with the individual and their own problems that exist in their own lives then they act that out at their problems at the work place, the need for feed back to fill the void maybe the need for control or significance.

Take the guy on like Snake said in a friendly manner using questions rather than statements, sounds basic but invite them into a office and ask how they are going, are there problems, noticed there seems to be some stress, where would they like to be in 5 years, what responsibilities would they be prepared to take on to move forward or to help solve problems, how can they proceed forward in there own lives, is there any thing you can do to help. Get a discussion going and explore all avenues.

If that fails go to Canaussieuck second point and don’t be afraid to be assertive and stand your ground some people will often feed on weakness

Oh one other point, the best supervisor I ever worked with in 35 years used humor continually and generally accepted and acknowledged everyone’s view point then went on to get everyone do what he wanted but he was a natural.

Good luck
Focus

 

[Buster]

Anyone have any advice as to what to do about this? I want to actually fix the problem with this person rather than simply getting them to pick another target (either working for us or somewhere else).

Smurf,

A handy little trick is to deflect the 'whinge' back onto him and make it his responibility to develop a solution.. It's as simple as something like agreeing that 'IT' is a real problem, and you appreciate him bringing it to your attention, however you need his assistance to rectify, ask him to please flesh out a proposal that you can present senior management, and in order that he can take full credit ask if he minds presenting it.. Make sure you mention that he is doing this at the morning meeting in front of the 'group'..

I find that many 'whiney' problems simply dissappear when 'they' have to contribute to the solution rather than bag whatever it is that you come up with.. You might find that the real problems will be addressed and may just give him something to focus on rather targeting other individuals..

You need to be careful though, and only do this for the 'serial' whiners. If you do this to everybody they will detect the pattern and stop telling you about the problems, because they want to avoid being stitched up to do the paperwork/legwork.. You may just miss a 'real' issue..

Just a thought..

Regards,

Buster

PS Another way to get individuals more considerate of the needs of the group is a techniqe we used to use in the Navy known as the Blanket Bash.. The disgruntled 'Mob' musters at his bedside in the middle of the night and gives him a good old fashioned beating with thier blankets/towels that have knots tied in them and normally a bar of soap in the knot.. Seemed to work well in my day.. Ahhh, thats what we call communal harmony..

 

[Wysiwyg]

Wysiwyg comment.....

I move around to different work places and have had to work with some real nasties.You may be able to see some of the motivations and excuses these destructive people have...the first one I am dealing with at present.

The grudge bearer...forever throwing a spanner in the works and blaming other for it.Some of these types are real cunning too and will set up the targeted individual to make a mistake or hurt themselves.The grudge escalates as others become involved (which the grudge bearer needs to justify their actions) until major damage to equipment or injury brings it to a stop.

Envious of higher wage earners
Fear of losing their job to the new employee
Fear or envious of someone better
Don`t like the look of someone(crazy but true)
Bored and need to start a fight to liven up their dull job
Compulsive thieves
Divorce or relationship problems
Push someone to see how much they can take

These people will belittle you,set you up,steal,run you down,spread lies/rumours,play pranks,knock your intelligence,criticise,blame and I could go on but the message is clear.

Some of the suggestions to talk it over are o.k. As a male, I find physical action is sometimes required to end the stupidity because these people are as thick as 2 planks (also their actions and words make me angry)

In your case Mr.Smurf1976 talking it over will bring it out in the open. Exposure is the ultimate cure.

 

[tech/a]

Buster has nailed it.

Retain control by placing him in the position to solve problems or place input which will be judged by his peers (Not just you). Make it that his decisions and actions will be judged adopted or rejected.
You simply manage the process.

 

[money tree]

I read one of Alan Pease's books once. He knew someone who was a constant whiner. To fix this behavior, Pease simply ignored the person when in 'whine" mode. He would look away, appear to be thinking about something else, not respond, and when the whine ended he would change the subject so its as though the whine never existed. If the person said something positive, Pease would make eye contact, listen closely, and carry the conversation.
People who whine (and there are quite a few on this forum) do so to seek attention. remove the attention and the whining stops. Pease said the whiner tranformed into a positive person, suddenly had nothing but good things to say.

From what you say though, this person appears to be craving CONTROL. They probably think they are superior to everyone else, and dont understand why THEY cant be supervisor. The whining is nothing more than a projection of authority, when they have none. Julia is right, this is an insecurity issue. Probably not job security, but self worth. I worked at one place where this one guy was the local gossip. He would always scout for rumours & news and spread them. I realised it was because he was gay and didnt want anyone else gossiping about him!

My mother always seemed to have a "target". We all took turns, but one of us was always on the chopping block, usually me :

 

[macca]

Hi Smurf,

I agree with most of the above.

Unfortunately, some people are determined to be unhappy and critical of all and sundry.

It really is a mental problem and something that can need serious professional help.

However, in the workplace, we don't have that luxury so we just have to make do with common sense.

I like the suggestion that you ask for their solution to the problem or perhaps you could pair them off with the most blase employee. Usually there is someone who has a very thick hide that will basically ignore sniping.

One thing that I would do is keep a written record of all of his complaints, critiscisms or tormenting of other employees and your actions to remedy the problem. I would then discuss these with your personnel department as sometime in the future there maybe an unfair dismissal case in this and you would be best to cover your own rear end.

Failing that, maybe you nick name him "the pom" as most aussies were brought up with the joke that poms like to have whinge.

 

[constable]

One bad egg can make a horrible smell! We have at anyone time about 10 - 14 employees on the books . For most part the guys work in teams of 3 -4 and if some doesn't fit in then usually by the end of 2 weeks he will get segregated by the team and no one will want to work with him. Because we only run casuals then its basically a case of the revolving door.!
I will approach the employee about the situation and give them every oppurtunity to make good ,try fitting them with other teams but at the end of the day you have to act decisive and fast! "loose lips sink ships" and if you dont nip it in the bud then it will only erode your position of authority and bring down the rest of the team. Good luck with this Smurf!

 

[Stan 101]

Smurf, you aren't a postal worker by any chance are you? If the answer is yes, i suggest a kevlar jacket for work!
I work in a specialised industry also and I assume, like you that simple replacement is not an easy option although it would improve group harmony.

Though seriously, I believe Buster has a great idea for you to try. In some way, responsibility must be placed back on the offender. Indirect shaming of the offender can also work by simply bringing the facts out into the open in a very selective way and allowing his/her peers to debate this anonamous person's actions. You will know best how the offender will react if anonamous issues are raised in front of his peers, then the peers are asked to comment on the whiney attitudes.

Whatever you do, there will always be a minority that will need to be skull dragged outside and thumped, though. Not that I condone it, though it poses th question of how much resource does one spend on trying to alter a "too hard" personality before realising a loss and cutting ties?

 

[new girl]

At work I supervise a small group of people in a highly specialised field (we are the only people in the state who do this type of work). I am the supervisor of this group and not the manager of the company.

Personally, I see it as whinging since the issues raised by them are almost always of a relatively minor nature of the kind that most people would have with colleagues from time to time.

Just can't win...:

Smurf

Reading one of your previous posts, I think we both work in the same field, I’m one of those tinkering with the signal timing from the control room . My guess is that you work for a big organisation like me and this person’s been there for years and a member of the union as well, so they know how the system works and they feel safe, they’ve been whinging for years and getting a way with it (it’s the culture of an organizations like this)

I remember when I first joined my organization a few years a go, a relatively young woman and most of these people have been there for 20-30+ years. The others were all ex-police, army, navy (really tough people, who by the way, made sure my vocabulary became much more coulorful ) and I coped a lot of slack (the fact that I didn’t have a clue when I first started didn’t help either). Anyway, I took it on the chin and responded with a big and genuine smile to every smart comment directed at me (I have a nice smile ).

Being nice and graceful will work with most people and it’s great because you end up with a lot of friends, but everywhere you go, there will always be a couple that is impossible to deal with, the jealous type usually not happy in their personal life as well. Personally, I give them enough rope (my favorite program by the way ) and when they least expect it and when the time is right I take them head on, make sure it’s SPECTACULAR. It works every single time and it feels great (better than what I feel when I’m exercising http://www.unoriginal.co.uk/footage22_2.html) .

Sadly though, they won’t change but simply move on to the next target.

Hopefully, if you do really well with your shares you can go to work because you choose to not because you need the money, makes a big difference.


New Girl (not so new anymore, but I kinda like it)

 

[new girl]

that was my 100 post, thanks smurf most of them are pretty useless I have to say.

ps that link didn't work sorry, it was about arnie schwarznegger and how he feels when he exercises, try it, very funny.

 

[Wysiwyg]

One bad egg can make a horrible smell! We have at anyone time about 10 - 14 employees on the books . For most part the guys work in teams of 3 -4 and if some doesn't fit in then usually by the end of 2 weeks he will get segregated by the team and no one will want to work with him. Because we only run casuals then its basically a case of the revolving door.!
I will approach the employee about the situation and give them every oppurtunity to make good ,try fitting them with other teams but at the end of the day you have to act decisive and fast! "loose lips sink ships" and if you dont nip it in the bud then it will only erode your position of authority and bring down the rest of the team. Good luck with this Smurf!

Hi constable,

Just wondering what you mean by fit in.You probably either don`t know or won`t say but I think that if you check the examples on my post #8 then segregating (lowering self worth and confidence) of another person is a typical d`head response.The rotten eggs are often well established IN the company and no one comes into the circle/group unless they take sh** and kiss a**.

Check my post....workplace culture.

 

[CanOz]

These people are workplace bully's in most cases. Do you ever wonder how many were school yard bullies as well?

 

[Happy]

Buster is spot on.

Promote, elevate, give responsibility to the point that will have to pull the finger out and do something.
If up to task, will survive, if will not perform let others chop him down, will stick out as sore finger.

But chances are the individual is super whinger who will not accept any responsibility, so can shxt on everything, then you have to live with it or use unconventional methods.

 

[Smurf1976]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

I made the original post before a week on leave, that way I can't possibly do anything without having time to think about it first - never do anything in haste or in anger being a sensible approach IMO.

So I'll see what happens next week and make another post. Only thing I'm worried about is that I'll end up shifting the target from myself to another employee but I'll just have to watch closely what happens in that regard.

Could be an interesting week coming up...

 

[constable]

Hi constable,

Just wondering what you mean by fit in.You probably either don`t know or won`t say but I think that if you check the examples on my post #8 then segregating (lowering self worth and confidence) of another person is a typical d`head response.The rotten eggs are often well established IN the company and no one comes into the circle/group unless they take sh** and kiss a**.

Check my post....workplace culture.

I hear what your saying but in the scaffolding game if one bloke cant fit in by getting along with a tight Knit team and pull his own weight the leading hand and the other labourers are very quick to let me know! Far from being a d'head response as you suggested, from the teams point of view it makes their life harder and at the end of the day believe me, you want blokes you can trust and rely on when working on the scaffold!