Liberal or Labor

[bullmarket]

Hi rederob

no problem but to me we're just going round in circles now.

You keep saying that you and others are worse off post GST and I don't doubt that, but the extent to which you are worse off is of no interest to me because it is unverifiable and the bottom line is that you are then simply in the minority I have acknowledged in earlier posts that have been worse off.

But I still believe the vast majority are better off with the GST especially given the tax cuts that were introduced.

I have stated my views earlier and gave my reasons why and so I don't have an issue with the GST and so was happy to vote it in and so I don't have anything more to discuss about it.

At the end of the day, for me personally, there are much more important issues around the world atm with people suffering much harsher hardships than what you claim to be under to be concerned about and debate.

So it's Sunday, try to relax and not take things so seriously.

Insiders has started so I will see you in the soup during the week

cheers

bullmarket

 

[rederob]

But I still believe the vast majority are better off with the GST especially given the tax cuts that were introduced.

I guess the difference will always be that some "believe" and others "know".
Others still search, so they might know.
I apply the process across the board, so the GST matter is just a catalyst for thinking more broadly.
I agree there are more important matters.
And because most people nowadays seem to rely on limited sources of information - especially mainstream media - they seldom question what is happening around them.
Our goverment is relatively silent on Zimbabwe and Sudan where thousands are dying evey month from preventable events, mostly disease and starvation now. Yet comparatively few "western" soldiers are killed in Iraq or Afghanistan and its daily broadcast news.
Our government today seems to have lost its way in the world, or is glued to the US.
I will be looking towards the next federal elections to see where, as a nation, we are to be guided.
The "economic management" debate is an utter furphy - the previous Labor government guided the nation through tougher times and was in power longer than the present Coalition government.
Give me a $15b surplus as treasurer (on the back of higher taxes as that's where revenue comes from) and I will give you a budget to die for.

 

[Julia]

I guess the difference will always be that some "believe" and others "know".
Others still search, so they might know.
I apply the process across the board, so the GST matter is just a catalyst for thinking more broadly.
I agree there are more important matters.
And because most people nowadays seem to rely on limited sources of information - especially mainstream media - they seldom question what is happening around them.
Our goverment is relatively silent on Zimbabwe and Sudan where thousands are dying evey month from preventable events, mostly disease and starvation now. Yet comparatively few "western" soldiers are killed in Iraq or Afghanistan and its daily broadcast news.
Our government today seems to have lost its way in the world, or is glued to the US.
I will be looking towards the next federal elections to see where, as a nation, we are to be guided.
The "economic management" debate is an utter furphy - the previous Labor government guided the nation through tougher times and was in power longer than the present Coalition government.
Give me a $15b surplus as treasurer (on the back of higher taxes as that's where revenue comes from) and I will give you a budget to die for.

Excellent, Rederob.

When are you announcing your candidature?

Julia

 

[Prospector]

If you spent more in accounting for the GST than making payments to the ATO after the fact, you might not agree.
If your sports association had to add 10% to its fees so that kids can play their chosen sport I am not sure you would agree.
If you chose tradespeople to do jobs for you "GST free", you might agree.
It is a fact that the GST has benefited the wealthy substantially by reducing or eliminating taxes on products at the luxury end of the market and transferred that burden onto lesser earning folk.

I hear ya rederob. I have had to purchase software, spend several hours a week just doing the GST related stuff. Is that productive? When did I, as a research consultant suddenly become an accountant. And I dont get paid any more for the extra work. And how is Joe Blow the carpenter( : ) expected to suddenly drop tools and do the books! I am now an unpaid Tax collector for the Government. Most people have no idea of how GST issues have impacted terribly on small businesses. We do our best to comply, and then get threatened with nasty letters if we make a mistake!

I always write 9999 in the space where it asks you how much time it takes to fill in the BAS. It is not the filling in of the form that takes the time, it is the compilation of the info 'behind' the form!

I know of so many businesses who gave up when the GST was introduced. I wonder if that is part of the reason why we are now so short of plumbers, electricians, tilers etc

And what has it done to stop the black market - diddly squat.

I NEED A UNION :swear:

 

[visual]

Prospector,
I`m starting to think that this shortage of skilled workers is turning out to be a shortage of workers willing to be paid in chinese renminbi.

 

[rederob]

Prospector
You and I and many millions of others are in the same boat.
But some would have us believe we are in a minority.
One would think that after the GST had bedded down people wouldn't be too concerned about it.
Yet the small business people I talk to each week (and this is a part of what I do for a living) have no kind words for it all.
My accountant loves the GST because he had to grow his business to accommodate new clients - such as the tradespeople you are talking about.
And the bill he now gives me is over $200 more than it would have been pre-GST!
I feel so much better for bullmarket's explanation that the GST was not rocket science - lord knows how big the bills would have been if it was!

 

[Prospector]

.
Yet the small business people I talk to each week (and this is a part of what I do for a living) have no kind words for it all.
My accountant loves the GST because he had to grow his business to accommodate new clients - such as the tradespeople you are talking about.
And the bill he now gives me is over $200 more than it would have been pre-GST!

Wow, only $200! Mine went up in the 000's - and I do all my own reconciliations and BAS!

My accountant actually had to merge his business with another accountancy practice simply because he felt unable to keep up with the GST (wasnt it called 'the simplified tax system )

And so much for the GST getting rid of all the state taxes - in SA we are going to have to pay $35,000 stamp duty on a property purchase!
Oh yes, and GST on all the fees!

 

[rederob]

Wow, only $200! Mine went up in the 000's - and I do all my own reconciliations and BAS!

The bill I get from my accountant is several thousand $$s, but the GST only added a few hundred to what it would have been.
I pay well over $10k GST to the ATO each year, and have very few offsets - as you know if you are in the consultancy business.

 

[Smurf1976]

I know of so many businesses who gave up when the GST was introduced. I wonder if that is part of the reason why we are now so short of plumbers, electricians, tilers etc

And what has it done to stop the black market - diddly squat.

I NEED A UNION :swear:

Off topic but relevant I think.

Another reason for the shortage of trades people is that very few are willing to actually do that sort of work these days. Everyone seems to want an office job wearing a suit and tie. In my opinion this substantially comes back to a generation of parents defining success as a uni degree and a desk job.

The education system seems to be a real problem too. I'm not certain if this is still the case but to my understanding some states (NSW?) have some sort of set curriculum in years 11 and 12 and are thus seriously constrained in their ability to teach practical subjects such as electronics, metal machining and fabrication, CAD, motor mechanics, carpentry, business studies, office skills, music production, child care and so on as a result. It might make for impressive numbers but that's not a balanced education aligned with the needs of the real world.

That's not to say that the GST hasn't contributed. I really don't know what the situation is there with actual numbers of people. It would certainly have added to costs but whether or not these were passed on to consumers (as they should be) or absorbed by the tradespeople (which they shouldn't be doing) is another matter.

All the ridiculous paperwork certainly isn't an incentive to start a small business. In my opinion with modern technology it really ought to be a matter of maybe 30 minutes a month rather than hours per week. Likewise electronic systems are capable of collecting sufficient info to eliminate virtually all tax returns etc but, presumably to maintain the numbers employed at the ATO, this doesn't happen.

 

[Prospector]

It would certainly have added to costs but whether or not these were passed on to consumers (as they should be) or absorbed by the tradespeople (which they shouldn't be doing) is another matter.

Yes, these costs should have been passed on, but do you remember when the GST was introduced, business were threatened with DIRE consequences if their prices rose as a result. Consequently, they were just too scared to pass on the REAL costs of implementation of the GST for fear of punishment.

I received a very threatening letter from the ATO, but when I rang them to query the letter, in a state of panic I might add, it was their system's mistake. All BAS are scanned, and if the scan isnt clear (as was the case with mine), it puts incorrect figures into the computer. Then the ATO sends you a threatening letter saying you havent paid enough GST back. This took me about an hour of MY TIME to sort out ATO's mistake, but who pays for that time? I do. Apologies - Nope :swear:

So always keep a copy of every BAS because the ATO systems are just bad. And they assume you are in the wrong!

 

[Julia]

Prospector,

Re your signature: you're getting awfully picky about what you want amongst the stuff that comes out of the ground! Don't say no to the nickel - it can buy you some diamonds. Look at the bigger picture: even some coal could go towards your desired diamonds and gold if there was enough of it!

Cheers
Julia

(*Apologies for going off topic)

 

[Prospector]

Prospector,

Re your signature: you're getting awfully picky about what you want amongst the stuff that comes out of the ground! Don't say no to the nickel - it can buy you some diamonds. Look at the bigger picture: even some coal could go towards your desired diamonds and gold if there was enough of it!

Cheers
Julia

OK, is that better now?

 

[Smurf1976]

Yes, these costs should have been passed on, but do you remember when the GST was introduced, business were threatened with DIRE consequences if their prices rose as a result. Consequently, they were just too scared to pass on the REAL costs of implementation of the GST for fear of punishment.

A valid point which shows that this government doesn't mind interfeering with business in order to hide the effects of its' policies. A bit those rather blatant hints to the RBA a couple of years ago after interest rates rose.

 

[mista200]

Honestly guys who gives a flying **** about who kim beazley or john howard is .....at the end of the its not gonna make much difference to our lives with whoever it is...

peace

 

[The Mint Man]

Honestly guys who gives a flying **** about who kim beazley or john howard is .....at the end of the its not gonna make much difference to our lives with whoever it is...

peace

Ha! How doesn't it? Love to see your answer!!!

 

[rederob]

Honestly guys who gives a flying **** about who kim beazley or john howard is .....at the end of the its not gonna make much difference to our lives with whoever it is...

Mista
If you don't vote - and you don't - you are dead right.
So stop wasting our time with posts that dig you into a deeper grave.

 

[Happy]

Report from ABC:
“Barcaldine Tree of Knowledge poisoned
The historic Tree of Knowledge in the central western Queensland town of Barcaldine has been poisoned.
The ghost gum is symbolic of the Australian Labor Party, which was founded in the town.
Barcaldine Mayor Rob Chandler says it appears someone has poured about 30 litres of chemicals over the tree's roots.
A tree doctor is assessing the damage and Mr Chandler says the community is very upset.
"The Tree of Knowledge is just part of our history, it's part of Australia's history," he said.
"It's from those meetings under that tree that the Australian Labor Party was formed back in 1891 and it's a very very important part of Queensland and Australia's history."
“



Hope Liberals have nothing to do with it.
They don’t have to make stunts like this to win next election, I think.

 

[Julia]

Report from ABC:
“Barcaldine Tree of Knowledge poisoned
The historic Tree of Knowledge in the central western Queensland town of Barcaldine has been poisoned.
The ghost gum is symbolic of the Australian Labor Party, which was founded in the town.
Barcaldine Mayor Rob Chandler says it appears someone has poured about 30 litres of chemicals over the tree's roots.
A tree doctor is assessing the damage and Mr Chandler says the community is very upset.
"The Tree of Knowledge is just part of our history, it's part of Australia's history," he said.
"It's from those meetings under that tree that the Australian Labor Party was formed back in 1891 and it's a very very important part of Queensland and Australia's history."
“



Hope Liberals have nothing to do with it.
They don’t have to make stunts like this to win next election, I think.

That's just a dreadful thing to do. It was a beautiful tree, regardless of its political associations.

Julia

 

[smoothsatin]

As an economist and keen media analyst, i am consistantly dissapointed with peoples claim that the Libs are great economic managers.......what do people think this term means?

Almost any economist will agree with this and say, based on the previous 30 years of economic policy from both sides, that labour is far better at managing the economy and implementing policy to facilitate economic growth than the Libs.

It was labor who had the courage to seriously cut tariffs, invest in infrastructure, float the AUD, deregulate our backward socialist economy etc etc etc.

Do people realise that interest rates were lower when labor handed gov to liberal in 90s than when liberals handed to labor in the 80s? Indeed governments have very little influence over interest rates anyway? Although two key reasons why RBA has increased rates have been excessive credit growth and capacity constraints, both of these have been adversly effected by this governments irresponsible policys and lack thereof.

The libs are simply lucky, sponging off policy decisions made 20 years ago, currently they are losing an opportunity to increase the countrys capacity, but choose short term politically popular fixes, they simply add to the problem long term. The GST is the only decent policy i can think that the libs have come up with. Very efficient way to gain tax revenue, but tends to tax poorer people at a higher percentage (ie regressive) because they tend to save less/spend a higher % of their incomes.

I hope some people have read this,
Goodnight all, i am jumping off my soapbox....

 

[Knobby22]

I have changed my vote to Labour federally.
Lately they have shown themselves to be poor managers -
I site - labour shortages
- US free trade agreement
- collapse of maufacturing
- failure to monitor wheat trade adequately.
- willingness to ignore information that does not meet party views.
- 19th century labour policies that even internation right wing groups predict will be deletarious to our economy.
- failure to address housing bubble.

I don't know if Labour will be much better but it is definitely time for a change in the guard.