Liberal or Labor

hi folks

just wondering what the preference is with the two major parties at the moment. give a reason why you would or wouldnt vote for one of the parties.

thanks

twojacks28

twojacks28 said:

hi folks

just wondering what the preference is with the two major parties at the moment. give a reason why you would or wouldnt vote for one of the parties.

thanks

twojacks28

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Hello twojacks28

Definitely Liberal. The alternative is just too awful to contemplate. Kim Beazley is driving me nuts with his attempts to criticise everything the government does, just because some PR person has told him he needs to be more aggressive and "out there".
And don't even mention the Greens!

Julia

yes i couldnt agree anymore!!!! i dont know why he is still there. his own party doesnt like him. hahaha and they have no one else. also peter costello is now the best treasurer that australias ever had. bring the debt from 90+ million down to $5 million. what a great job.

twojacks28 said:

just wondering what the preference is with the two major parties at the moment. give a reason why you would or wouldnt vote for one of the parties.

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as there is no election, i will not be voting
if there was, i would be voting for someone that had integrity
so i suppose my vote will have to be informal

Well, I have some grave concerns about some of the values of the current Government, and their ongoing commitment to the US above all other considerations. I resented that they called people who marched against the Iraq invasion as stupid and foolish - gosh, I saw so many well informed intelligent people in the march so how dare Howard dismiss us!

But I look at the alternative - and I just cant vote for them! I think the thing that galls me most is the factional Union involvement, and their constant carping about business. I heard on the radio today that if Labor was elected then they would act to limit the salaries paid to CEO's of big corporations. Smart move - that will really encourage talented people to come to Australia! How can you take them seriously!

So yes, looks like Im an informal too, but if push came to shove - well it would have to be a government that knows how to run a business, and that aint Labor!

rederob said:

as there is no election, i will not be voting
if there was, i would be voting for someone that had integrity
so i suppose my vote will have to be informal

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ditto

I'm not keen on either of them as far as Federal politics is concerned. Neither seems to have anything approaching a long term plan for this country in practically any area (economy, health, environment, energy (belive me when I say this will outrank health as an issue within a few years), infrastructure, national security). Everywhere I look it's just short term thinking or no thinking at all. The Greens are also guilty of short-termism as a central basis of their policies so it's not just Labor and Liberal.

On a state level I would definately vote Labor. In Tas at least, the Liberals are all about running up debt, selling everything off (including hospital medical equipment), making trust funds disappear (!) and so on. They've done it (run up debt to the point of near-bankruptcy) twice since the early 1980's and their policies don't seem to have changed.

It really says it all about the Liberals (and Greens) in Tas when the business lobby tells people to vote Labor. Business backing Labor? An uneasy partnership maybe but it beats the doom and gloom "fire sale" Liberals. At least Labor's had a go even if they have made a few mistakes along the way.

I think Kim Beazley could do with a few tips from some of the state premiers about how to (1) run a political party and (2) run a state/country once point number 1 is sorted out. Labor needs to get business on side as they have done in Tas if they're to be a credible alternative IMO.

Is there that much difference between them, these days?
Does not matter who you vote for, a politician still gets in!
Cheers,
Peter

Hi prospector

Prospector said:

Well, I have some grave concerns about some of the values of the current Government, and their ongoing commitment to the US above all other considerations. I resented that they called people who marched against the Iraq invasion as stupid and foolish - gosh, I saw so many well informed intelligent people in the march so how dare Howard dismiss us!

But I look at the alternative - and I just cant vote for them! I think the thing that galls me most is the factional Union involvement, and their constant carping about business. I heard on the radio today that if Labor was elected then they would act to limit the salaries paid to CEO's of big corporations. Smart move - that will really encourage talented people to come to Australia! How can you take them seriously!

So yes, looks like Im an informal too, but if push came to shove - well it would have to be a government that knows how to run a business, and that aint Labor!

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you've basically summed up my view as well

I usually vote for whoever I think is most likely going to do the better job running the country or state for at least the next term.

Federally? - for me it's a no-brainer Labor is still a basket case overall and so I would definitely vote Liberal if an election was held now.

State level? - here in Victoria, Doyle and his Liberal party is essentially a circus and so I would vote Labor (Bracks) if a state election was held now. Actually we have a state election due by November this year

Happy Easter.

bullmarket

I think it's time for a change, the present government is starting to smell.

Politicians are like baby's nappies. They should be changed often.

twojacks,

I really don't know the actual figures so you could well be right in your comments that peter costello brought debt down from 90 to 5 million but it just doesn't seem right to me. Was it meant to be billion? Or is million correct? Thanx

Also I think the next Budget will have a big influence on what people's thoughts on the current liberal Govt are. I can't for the life of me understand why the are so anti-reform. They don't nesacarily have to change every element of tax all in one go, but make a start on it and progress through it year by year. I really think they are aproaching the whole thing in the wrong way, instead of looking at where we compare to the rest of the world try looking at where we are at and where we could be. We have the potential to be world leaders and trend setters but instead we seem to like being sheep and in the good years we are just given an extra ration of wheat.

I like your analogy Knobby22

Knobby22 said:

I think it's time for a change, the present government is starting to smell.

Politicians are like baby's nappies. They should be changed often.

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I suppose what you are saying is that politicians are full of pooh

To some extent I agree with you

cheers

bullmarket

hi sorry,

It actually is 90 billion down to 5 billion, my mistake.

In considering the debt issue, both sides need to be looked at. Liabilities and assets.

If you have a 300K mortgage then one way to pay it off is to sell the house and rent. Or you could partly pay it off by swapping the BMW for an old banger and so on. But to then claim that you've repaid the debt is a bit misleading (to say the least) since all you've really done is move money between your assets and liabilities. You haven't actually improved your position at all.

So in considering the 90 billion down to 5 billion debt reduction it is necessary to subtract from that 85 billion improvement the proceeds of all net asset sales, including Telstra. Do the accounting properly and it seems that at least part of the mortgage repayment has been achieved by selling the house. Not so impressive as it sounds.

And then there's that little point about the country as a whole having greater foreign liabilities than ever before. That we're running a "banana republic" Current Account deficit during a commodities boom is a worry. We're in deep trouble if commodity prices fall. Don't think foreign debts matter? Just look at what happened to the likes of Argentina and it's worth noting that the Liberals were elected in the first place with a campaign focused heavily on this issue. They haven't fixed it but to be fair, neither did Labor.

I also remember quite well the comments from both Howard and Costello in 1998, in the context of the Tasmanian state election that year, that repaying debt basically isn't possible on a net basis. They argued that you could only repay debt by selling assets, in this case the iconic jewel in the state's crown also known as the Hydro-Electric Corporation. That policy basically handed government to Labor on a plate...

8 years later and general government debt is close to zero in Tas, a small fortune has been invested in infrastructure (eg the Bass Strait ferries) whilst the Hydro has grown to become a multi-national consulting business (still based in Hobart) and is now spreading it's actual power generation operations to South Australia (already operating), China (under construction) and in the future India (office being set up now). So much for the Liberals and their doom and gloom it can't be done nonsense.

Personally, I would always prefer to vote for politicans with vision as to where we're going and leadership to get us there. Vision as to how to actually fix problems rather than shifting the blame or diverting attention. Those two criteria wipe 99% off my list of who to vote for...

twojacks28 said:

It actually is 90 billion down to 5 billion, my mistake.

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Yep
They did it with a GST yet are still trying to sell the farm (and Medicare).

On a more sobering note, apart from unnecessary labour reforms (because Australian productivity standards are already high - just like our comparative labour costs), the federal coalition has been bereft of "nation building" policies at a time when we deserve our place in the sun.
National infrastructue projects to support our extractive industries include???
Our national water policy is ???
We are tackling high fuel costs by ???
Remote Australia accesses the internet and phone services by ???
We have a free trade ageement with the USA that excludes us accessing lucrative markets that the US props up via farm subsidies.
We have a foreign affairs policy that means ???

Fortunately we have a public service second to none: Their ability to teflon coat Ministers of the Crown is exemplary.

Hi rederob

All valid questions I agree but since you only mention the coalition is short on nation building policies I then assume you know exactly what the Labor Party policies and plans are on the issues you raised.

I'd be interested to see if you can spell them out for anyone interested.

For me personally, I still remember mortgage rates were around 17% and inflation around 10% under Labor and I'm not convinced Labor has policies that will ensure rates won't go back to those levels over time if they were in government.

Overall, I'm quite happy we have coalition government atm although whichever party is in power it will have its fair share of problems, scandals etc etc

I still think our 'man of steel' and his 2IC's are a much better leadership team overall than any of the alternatives.

Happy Easter

bullmarket

bullmarket said:

I'd be interested to see if you can spell them out for anyone interested.

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Sorry, can't shed any light.
My point is about a federal government missing an opportunity, after spending many years in office.
Most polical analysts agree that the platform for Howard's first term (in a broad economic sense) was based on Keating/Hawke initiatives.

At a very personal level, I know that the traineeship and apprenticeship numbers that the federal government is always so pleased with came from significant national training reforms bedded down by Labor. But the fruits flowed several years after, significantly as a result of innovative initiatives from my Queensland home State, and other Labor States.

We have a political dichotomy in Australia whereby folk are quite happy to vote State Labor, and federal Coalition - in a sense balancing the power.
It won't last forever, but makes an interesting case study for political scientists the longer it lasts.

I hope a woman stands as the Leader of the Opposition at the next election - be it Julia whatsitsname, or some other. In fact I wish it were Natasha (if only she could cope with the antics of lecherous laborious men with excessive egos, and brains neatly tucked into their Y-fronts).

bullmarket said:

For me personally, I still remember mortgage rates were around 17% and inflation around 10% under Labor and I'm not convinced Labor has policies that will ensure rates won't go back to those levels over time if they were in government.

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This actually has little to do with who is in power, and more to do with what the rest of the world is doing... or more accurately, what the US Federal reserve is doing.

Hi wayne

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Sure, our destiny is influenced to some extent by the US and other major global economies but I'm not convinced our government policies have no significant influence on our economic destiny as you imply. Imo, the coalition has by far superior skills in economic management atm than Labor or any of the other alternatives.

I'm scratching my head (amongst other parts of my anatomy ) to come up with any period in history where mortgage rates were around 17% and inflation around 10% under a coalition government and I can't come up with one - can you?


hi rederob

ok thanks - I'm not sure what Labor's policies are on those issues either and I'm not sure even they are atm


Happy Easter

bullmarket

bullmarket said:

Hi wayne

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Sure, our destiny is influenced to some extent by the US and other major global economies but I'm not convinced our government policies have no significant influence on our economic destiny as you imply. Imo, the coalition has by far superior skills in economic management atm than Labor or any of the other alternatives.

I'm scratching my head (amongst other parts of my anatomy ) to come up with any period in history where mortgage rates were around 17% and inflation around 10% under a coalition government and I can't come up with one - can you?


bullmarket

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One would presume the coalition to have superior eco skills, and that indeed has usually been the case. But wasn't Keating the "greatest treasurer in the world"? (excuse me while I go throw up)

We shall soon about interest rates, as bonds head down in the US.... stay tuned!