Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Let Oz Car Industry Die

Jump to new
Garpal Gumnut

Garpal Gumnut

Ross Island Hotel
Joined
2 January 2006
Posts
13,567
Reactions
9,992
The Bracks Report into the Australian car industry is now out.

Tariffs will remain past 2010, but lower than in the past.

Queensland, NT and West Australia are short 80,000 workers for the mining industry.

Tariffs should be abolished to force the shut down of the inefficient car industry and encouragement given to the workers to move to more productive parts of Australia.

Victoria and South Australia are practising a form of mainstream CDP to keep their workers employed.

gg
 
Well said Garpul. On the face of it, it should be left to stand on its own two feet. Just wondering how Adelaide and Melbourne will cope with a mass exodus to other states. Other local business would surely suffer.

MAybe the cream of the auto industry could begin on some boutique vehicle industry to compete on the world stage with the likes of Bugati, Ferrari, and the like. Maybe even a motorcycle industry to compete with Bimota or even Ducati.
 
Good on ya Bracksy, your a ... legend.

A nice level playing field we have with other economies don't we?
Yeah, let's keep digging up the ground and exporting it, after all it's easy and it will last forever won't it?

So when the resource boom finishes we can become the next NZ, and be content with our sheep and sercive industry.

When manufacturing skills or any other skills for that matter are lost, they are lost for good. You can't just decide to bring em back!
 
Kinezakis said:
Good on ya Bracksy, your a ... legend.

A nice level playing field we have with other economies don't we?
Yeah, let's keep digging up the ground and exporting it, after all it's easy and it will last forever won't it?

So when the resource boom finishes we can become the next NZ, and be content with our sheep and sercive industry.

When manufacturing skills or any other skills for that matter are lost, they are lost for good. You can't just decide to bring em back!
Click to expand...

Melbourne was built on the gold rush.

It will fade away on the coal, iron and uranium rush of the 21st century.

There is a union-capital axis at work in the southern states that is about to be smashed by Kev07 and Swannie which will lead to a better wealthier Australia.

gg
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
Melbourne was built on the gold rush.

It will fade away on the coal, iron and uranium rush of the 21st century.

There is a union-capital axis at work in the southern states that is about to be smashed by Kev07 and Swannie which will lead to a better wealthier Australia.

gg
Click to expand...

Smash the unions fine, but why strangle manufacturers? Is that the type of future they are building for our children?

Mining booms have come and gone repeatedly over the last 100 years. The majority of the rest of the expansion of the last 15 years was built on IOU's and that episode is only now starting to rear it's ugly face.
 
protectionsim stiffles innovation, just wondering why the rest of the world would want the cars we make here ....

didn't Rudd just go to Japan and offer Toyota a big hand out to invest into green cars here??

I am unsure of the relationship of the Aussie car makers with the parents - isn't Ford and General Motors (Holden) American companies?
 
I've driven plenty of Aussie built Holden and Ford vehicles and without exception they are rubbish in terms of quality compared to any Japanese car I've driven.

Faulty seat belts, faulty diff, engine rattles when still nearly new, brakes needing attention after just 30,000 km and bits in the interior simply falling off. And don't even mention the door lock spectacularly failing simply because a passenger tried to open it from the outside at the same time as I was opening the door from the inside (it was dark). The dealer admitted that was guaranteed to break it - just not good enough given it's a scenario quite likely to occur, esepcially for anyone with children.

All this trouble in normal driving around town on bitumen roads in fleet vehicles replaced every 2 years (driven 95% by one driver). And I'm a pretty conservative driver too.

Even worse was waiting several months for spare parts - they couldn't give a damn about their (fleet) customers but no doubt the factory was still running with plenty of parts available.

And don't even mention the ridiculous fuel consumption. It's not as though they have the on road performance to justify it.

Not being a car fanatic, I just want to get from A to B with reasonable reliability, safety and economy, I wouldn't consider anything other than a Japanese brand for my own car. A lot less hassle and better value. My 8 year old Jap car has thus far required a new battery, tyres and a set of wiper blades. And it's been driven on some pretty rotten dirt roads (it's a 2wd car) too.

But all that said, an Australian built Toyota would presumably be fine since I'd assume the Japanese parent company would be enforcing decent quality standards in order to protect their reputation. I've never had one but I'd consider one for my next car alongside the other Japanese brands.:2twocents
 
roland said:
protectionsim stiffles innovation, just wondering why the rest of the world would want the cars we make here ....

didn't Rudd just go to Japan and offer Toyota a big hand out to invest into green cars here??

I am unsure of the relationship of the Aussie car makers with the parents - isn't Ford and General Motors (Holden) American companies?
Click to expand...

It sounds as if there is 80/20 agreement on letting the car industry die.

South Australians should not feel threatened by this. There are numerous outlets selling Kylie Minogue DVDs in Queensland and I am sure the same goes for WA and the NT. The boondocks are open minded about difference.

Victorians are used to travelling for work, so it won't make much difference to them.

gg
 
I look forward to cheaper superior quality overseas cars as tariffs are reduced, bring it on :) It may well encourage people to upgrade more regularly, improving overall economy, safety and pollution levels on our roads.

Apparently Australia has one of the oldest vehicle fleets on the roads in terms of Western countries. The high cost of new vehicles may be one of the reasons for this trend.

Only have to look at what a BMW costs in Europe, as to what it goes for here, to see we really get the short-end of the stick. Sure, we're thousands of km away, but it's a lot more than just the transport costs.
 
Australia already has probably the lowest tariffs among it's trading partners. The average amongst USA, China, Korea, and Japan is 35%. The Bracks report wants 5% by 2010 which is very low in comparison and will make it very difficult for local manufacturers to remain competitive, especially if AUDUSD remains at elevated levels.

We don't see these countries lowering their tarrifs, infact their trend is the opposite.

I have worked for an Australian automotive components company here for 23 years. In that time as tarriffs have come down immensly and we have expanded the business into 10 other countries and our biggest customers being GM and FMC. Today we are one of the largest brake manufactures world wide. The main reason this happened was because our products are innovative, lightweight, and simply superier all round. These products were designed and used on Aussie vehicles for years before being promoted overseas.One must not assume that all Aussie vehicles are all trash.

The auto industry is this countries biggest exporter at present behind mining. The only problem is, mining only employs 2% of the workforce.
 
Good on you, Kinezakis.

You are one of the few who actually produce something tangible for society (also, usually the lowest paid workers).

Kill off all manufacturing industry, and all that is left is people producing pieces of paper.
 
Kinezakis said:
Australia already has probably the lowest tariffs among it's trading partners. The average amongst USA, China, Korea, and Japan is 35%. The Bracks report wants 5% by 2010 which is very low in comparison and will make it very difficult for local manufacturers to remain competitive, especially if AUDUSD remains at elevated levels.

We don't see these countries lowering their tarrifs, infact their trend is the opposite.

I have worked for an Australian automotive components company here for 23 years. In that time as tarriffs have come down immensly and we have expanded the business into 10 other countries and our biggest customers being GM and FMC. Today we are one of the largest brake manufactures world wide. The main reason this happened was because our products are innovative, lightweight, and simply superier all round. These products were designed and used on Aussie vehicles for years before being promoted overseas.One must not assume that all Aussie vehicles are all trash.

The auto industry is this countries biggest exporter at present behind mining. The only problem is, mining only employs 2% of the workforce.
Click to expand...

Yes that is a great post, I love hearing stories of successful companies like this. The thing is, the above is NOT an argument that makes me think we should keep trade tariffs. If the products are world class, in demand, innovative, and produced at a globally marketable cost/price margin, then a business such as this should happily stand on it's own feet with the need for subsidy or tariff based protection, either directly or indirectly via the actual local vehicle assemblers!

Cheers,

Beej
 
Macquack said:
Good on you, Kinezakis.

You are one of the few who actually produce something tangible for society (also, usually the lowest paid workers).

Kill off all manufacturing industry, and all that is left is people producing pieces of paper.
Click to expand...
I'd love to support Aussie industry and totally agree with the argument about producing something tangible.

But looking at the last 2 work vehicles makes me face reality. Bottom line is another fault develops, on average, every 4 months. Mostly small things like the heater fan wearing out or the hand brake lever plastic coming off, but there have been outright mechanical failures too.

Meanwhile my 8 year old Nissan Pulsar has thus far required new tyres, one new battery and replacement of the front wiper blades. That's it. And it's a cheaper car that's travelled a lot further and on worse roads than those Falcons. Aussie manufacturers ought to be able to achieve similar levels of reliability...
 
Smurf1976 said:
I'd love to support Aussie industry and totally agree with the argument about producing something tangible.

But looking at the last 2 work vehicles makes me face reality. Bottom line is another fault develops, on average, every 4 months. Mostly small things like the heater fan wearing out or the hand brake lever plastic coming off, but there have been outright mechanical failures too.

Meanwhile my 8 year old Nissan Pulsar has thus far required new tyres, one new battery and replacement of the front wiper blades. That's it. And it's a cheaper car that's travelled a lot further and on worse roads than those Falcons. Aussie manufacturers ought to be able to achieve similar levels of reliability...
Click to expand...

Toyota produces locally made vehicles to the exacting Japanese standards and worldwide platfom. The Japanese would settle for nothing less. Just because these vehicles are made in Australia does not make them inferior to any other Toyotas worldwide as the Toyota quality standards.

The same goes for Holdens and Fords in comparison to US standards. In fact Holdens probably make a better product than GM in the USA.

With Ford and Hold it has been difficult quality wise. If you look back and see what they have been up against. That is to develop vehicles from the ground up for a low volume domestic market(around 100K units a year). Other worldwide manufacturers are spending R & D for much larger volumes.

This will probably change in the years ahead as both GM and FMC have adopted worldwide platform rationalization programs. So you will basically be buying the same vehicles both here and overseas but made in their respective countries. This would bring development costs down dramatically.
 
Kinezakis said:
Toyota produces locally made vehicles to the exacting Japanese standards and worldwide platfom. The Japanese would settle for nothing less. Just because these vehicles are made in Australia does not make them inferior to any other Toyotas worldwide as the Toyota quality standards.

The same goes for Holdens and Fords in comparison to US standards. In fact Holdens probably make a better product than GM in the USA.

With Ford and Hold it has been difficult quality wise. If you look back and see what they have been up against. That is to develop vehicles from the ground up for a low volume domestic market(around 100K units a year). Other worldwide manufacturers are spending R & D for much larger volumes.

This will probably change in the years ahead as both GM and FMC have adopted worldwide platform rationalization programs. So you will basically be buying the same vehicles both here and overseas but made in their respective countries. This would bring development costs down dramatically.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt they make a good car, mate, but they are needed elsewhere where their sweat can earn more productive dollars mining.

With all the subsidies their cost per car is way over the equivalent cost in Thailand or South Korea.

gg.
 
Garpal Gumnut said:
I don't doubt they make a good car, mate, but they are needed elsewhere where their sweat can earn more productive dollars mining.

With all the subsidies their cost per car is way over the equivalent cost in Thailand or South Korea.

gg.
Click to expand...

the subsidies are mainly for research and development not for production, as they are for most other industries.

As for the mining, not everyone wants to move interstate and work in a filthy environment digging up dirt. Even if it pays a little more at the moment


:)
 
Kinezakis said:
the subsidies are mainly for research and development not for production, as they are for most other industries.

As for the mining, not everyone wants to move interstate and work in a filthy environment digging up dirt. Even if it pays a little more at the moment


:)
Click to expand...

Add on to that the money paid to Bracksie and the other retired ALP hacks for running the inquiry, and all the other money spent going nowhere. Its like sit down money.

Mining is a cleaner environment than a GM or Ford sweatshop.

gg
 
Top